Texsox

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 03:47 PM) These arguments are all over the place. $32 million in damages is what the Plaintiff alleged. That does not mean the court will award them the money, it doesnt even mean if it goes to trial they will win. Ive had a case where the Plaintiff was suing for a $1,500 security deposit. The attorney claimed $25,000 for lost economic opportunity and a bunch of other nonsense. Some attorneys will allege a crazy amount of damages so that if they negotiate for settlement they can use the $32 mil as a number to come down from. So in cases where the numbers are hard to figure out (emotional stress etc) many attorneys will just put down a huge number knowing that theyll never get close. The bottom line is that if the govt wanted to allow this behavior they could write a law to make it illegal. As of now, it does not appear to be legal. Thats the great part about our system, you can change the law. So instead of complaining about "liberal judges", you should complain about the laws as they are written. And to add to that, people are added to the lawsuit that may only be associated. The target in this suit seems to be the Sheriff, not the land owner. But since he was the aggressor, he is brought into it. Certainly most of y'all agree the Sheriff should not stand by while this guy threatens people and kicks them? Or do you?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) While those soldiers may be in the wrong, that's not a case of "rancher vigilantism" and so it isn't really relevant to the topic we were discussing. Just trying to offer a glimpse of why some of the attitudes happen here on the border. Imagine if the military decides to deploy on your property without telling anyone. It is legal for a person to be on their land target shooting, or even aiming at some predators. The military shoots and kills your son. And of course no one went to trial for the kids murder. It's just some poor Mexican-American kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. We both know if this had been some white kid from middle America, all s*** would have come lose. Many Mexican-Americans do not trust the government or their agents. Remember the inaction of the Sheriff, that could be part of why the lawsuit is going on. It should be no surprise that landowners can also do pretty much whatever they want with any dark skinned person they come across. This guy has a pretty damn big spread. I still have not heard if it is fenced or not. If he's down on the river, he would not normally have a fence on the river, and stock he has would need access. They may have crossed without jumping any fences. But I have not gotten that confirmed.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 11:37 AM) I'm a united way guy, I do about 40-50 appeals a year for my local United Way.

Would the artificial flavoring that they use on Sno-Cones work? That has grape or strawberry as a syrup.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 12:09 PM) Let me know the first time that happens, and I'll be right there with you demanding he goes to jail for life. Otherwise, I'll continue to support a person's right to protect their property from criminals. http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/ballad/about.html How about the marines shooting a goat herder and then trying to cover it up.

here's the bottom line. This guy may be one of the good guys, he may not. But sit across from a few human beings and listen to their stories. The women are raped, the children are abused, and the men are beaten when some of these guys catch them. They believe, truthfully, that no one will care because they are here illegally. Most Americans, when hearing of abuses will shrug it off and say, we'll they are dangerous criminals and got what they deserve. So a woman was kicked, or a child was punched, or a guy was pushed to the ground. This is America and people should expect that. That's what we believe in. In many counties, the Sheriff watches and does nothing as this stuff happens. If he does anything, he'll lose the next election. Both sides have compelling stories. This land was part of Mexico. We waged war to take it from them. Then after the war, all Mexicans, even those that fought for the US, were basically screwed over. And that wasn't that long ago. In the Rio Grande Valley up until around 1930 a white man had never been found guilty of raping or murdering a Hispanic. The Texas Rangers were as likely to shoot a Mexican than save him. Sadly, for me at least, a lot of those attitudes exist today. You see it as a brave ranch owner preserving his property. Just as likely, he's hoping for a confrontation and a chance to hassle some "wet backs". If they have money he may accept that as payment. If the women look "hot" he may accept that. Sometimes calling the Border Patrol is the nicest thing he will do. If his story is correct, I suspect he may be somewhere in the middle. To his credit, he did add faucets so people would not break his pumps. Also likely, because I've spent enough time on a working cattle ranch, are live stock busting up pumps and such. He's quoting 10" of trash. Think about that number. Illegals are not staying in one place long enough to generate that much trash. They would have had to carry all that stuff. More often than not, they are carrying a couple one gallon plastic milk jugs for water, and a little food in their pockets. To generate that much trash takes vehicles. I know a couple ranches down here that are hiker friendly. They have many people hiking across their property. I image some may be illegal, I don't ask. But there is no where near that much trash. In fact, most illegals learn to bury/hide their trash to avoid detection. I see far more garbage from teenagers having parties away from the eyes of mom and dad. And while the focus is on the homeowner getting sued, the list is actually longer. From what I just heard, it is the Sheriff that is the true target. What hopefully will come of this is some guidelines as to what behavior is acceptable, and what is not.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) Strawberry jelly, crunchy peanut butter (the real/organic kind with the oil), on sourdough. You lost me with the sourdough. I love sourdough but it just doesn't sound good for PB&J. But since you say it's good, I may try it sometimes. I have some safe PB, it's a few years old, I think I will use that. Oh, and crunchy for 80% of my sandwiches. Smooth for a change of pace. Like when I'm packing for illegals

You guys win. I'm just a stupid guy living on the border and reading and seeing this stuff daily.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) Allegedly. Think they might be enticed to exaggerate or lie in order to win $32M? You're relying on the words of the illegals over the rancher because ? Because I live down here. Because I have met hundreds of illegals. Because I have friends that originally came to this country illegally. Because I have seen the vigilantes. Because a Judge allowed the case to go forward. And you based who you believe on???? You say a property owner has a right to protect his property. So why can't I kick someone and hold a gun on them while the sheriff watches? I can't believe anyone actually thinks cops should stand by while someone kicks another person and holds a gun to them. Wow.

Wow, I pay $550 a 1/2 mile from campus. And I finally gave in a turned on the air conditioning today. It was almost 80 inside the house.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 12:09 PM) That doesn't matter and you're trying to argue from an emotional stance here. It doesn't matter what they were doing. They were on his property illegally. He has had his home broken into and his property littered by people there illegally before. They have no more right to be there than the drug runners. Let me know the first time that happens, and I'll be right there with you demanding he goes to jail for life. Otherwise, I'll continue to support a person's right to protect their property from criminals. How far is he entitled to go? The Sheriff was there and allowed the man to kick a woman and continue to hold a rifle on them. I've had my home in Wildwood broken into, so f*** the next kid that hops my back fence to get their ball. I'm going to kick the mom and hold a gun on them while the cops watch, and of course y'all will defend me You don't get to make up your own laws on your property. This person trespassed, so I'm going to kick some ass for a while. But hey, you guys are experts. I just live on the border.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 11:35 AM) Tex, we are just gonna disagree on this. You think they are all helpless people just looking for a leg up, and I think that some of them very well could be dangerous. if they are willing to break the law to come into this country, what is to prevent them from breaking one more to get away? And with the larger number of them, firearms aren't needed if the rancher is also unarmed. Of course some could be dangerous. So are ex-military living in this country. Oklahoma City, DC sniper, for example. And so too are some of the people walking in your neighborhood. What this country does not need are vigilantes. I know dozens of people who came to this country illegally to find work. I have met many, many, more. As a group they are a hell of a lot more peaceful than any of the projects in the city. But perhaps the ones you know are dangerous. This Sheriff was allowing someone to hold a rifle on the group. Then watched as the guy kicked a woman. Perhaps that is acceptable in Chicago, but I doubt it.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 11:19 AM) Why do you scoff at the idea that he has every reason to believe that he could be in danger? The tresspassers have vandalized his property, tore up pumps, killed calves destroyed fences, stole trucks, broken into his home and he has found garbage that could be from drugs. Being outnumbered 10 - 1, without a weapon, what is to stop them from committing harm to him? Or are all illegal immigrants just peacefull people only looking for the land of milk and honey? No criminals in them at all? None? Perhaps the dirty diapers tipped you off to the danger? These are people looking to walk 300 miles for a minimum wage job at some restaurant or farm. Don't worry about the drug supply for Illinois, that arrives in semi's and on airplanes. Remember they are walking, they aren't carrying massive quantities of drugs. And you believe everything he says? Come on. There are coyotes and other wild animals that kill calves. Maybe there was some drug stuff, but that would be rare. Again they are walking hundreds of miles. They aren't carrying 6 pounds of worthless firearms. The danger will be from these guys slaughtering humans like the Iraqi's did.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) Then maybe they should try to have the guy arrested for assauly instead of 'violating their civil rights'. Again, your comparrison doesn't quite hold. To pass from a neighbor ranch to his, you first have to be on the neighbor ranch. So they tresspassed there first. Does the guy have a right to set up hidden pits with punji sticks in them? No. He did set up some sensors to tell him people are there which is fine, and taking his dog and gun with him is also fine. Since he was outnumbered, there is every expectation of danger on his part. However, if you are injured while committing a crime, your avenues for restitution are severly limited. break into my house and slip and fall on a wet floor, oh well. What happened after the authorities got there seems to me to be a problem with the authorities. Maybe they should be the ones being sued. And by 'having his gun still trained on them', does that mean he was aiming it at them, or simply still holding it? His word agains a bunch of people who probably can't speak the language and are merely following the instructions from the advocasy group that is representing them. I have no explination for the kick, but fail to see how that would violate any rights they have, especially $32 million dollares worth of them. Whoa, every expectation of danger? It just isn't worth discussing.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 10:13 AM) Not oblivious that there was a battle, oblivious to why. "I'm clean, I'm old, I did a completely mediocre job, what's wrong with me taking the seat from a criminal the entire state is waiting with baited breath to leave?" Oblivious. Stupid. Mediocre. Burris '10 I thought he had to be confirmed? Blago got to pick and that was the only step?

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 10:32 AM) Slight difference in the locals, Tex. In my neighborhood, easy for someone to 'accidentaly' walk on my lawn. Out there in the middle of nowhere, not very likely the people he finds got their by accident while looking for the local TexMex restaurant. And he isn't roaming the neighborhood, he is on his own land. Also not like they just stepped over the border a little bit, he finds them all throughout his land on thier way to destinations unknown. Your comparison doesn't work. And I am not gonna get into the wall debate with you on this thread, maybe elsewhere. Wall or no wall, this man has every right to keep illegals and others off his land. Actually, you must not hike or backpack. Out here it is really easy to get lost. Depending on his ranch, it may be easy to to pass from a neighbor ranch to his. I've done it. We thought we were leaving one area of a ranch to another area of the same ranch. Instead it was the neighbor's place. Good thing he was a ask questions first type of guy. Again, there are limits to what people can do to protect their property. For example, booby traps are illegal. You have the same right to keep trespassers off your property. Do you want your neighbor in his backyard pointing a gun at your kids when a ball falls over the fence? Remember he has rights. If your house was broken into three times in a week, would you be justified to sit on your porch and point a gun at everyone who steps on your lawn? And what about the Sheriff who stood there while this man kicked women and continued to train a rifle on these people? You don't have a problem with that?

Happy Birthday!!

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) Then what is the proper response for frivolous lawsuits? I still believe that the group representing them should be sued for at least court costs, even if the case ends up being dropped or dismissed. A judge already ruled there was enough merit for the case to move forward. That is the gate that was put in to stop frivolous lawsuits.

First of all, let's put this situation in your neighborhood instead of mine. If your neighborhood is 90% white, have the illegals be white as well. You have guy that sits in your neighborhood with a rifle and handgun ready to point it at anyone on his front lawn. His dog is menacing and he threatens to have the dog attack anyone, man, woman, or child, that steps on his lawn. Then he stops your neighbor, and while the sheriff is standing there, kicks the woman and continues to hold everyone at rifle point. Most stretches of the border are 80% or greater people of Hispanic origins. Those are often times US Citizens that are harassed by some of these guys. Would you want rifles pointed at you? This time they happened to be illegals. But soon, there will be a bloodbath out there. Cases like this, help to define the lines that will be drawn. The Border Patrol is doing the best job they can. But again, let's look at your neighborhood. How about armed men roaming the streets of Downers Grove detaining every white person they see? Every once in a while they catch a criminal, is that justification to have them pointing rifles and handguns, threatening with attack dogs, and kicking women? I don't know what y'all think the border looks like. For most of us it is our backyard. And another great border wall update. Twenty water districts will be bisected by the wall. Each of them need access to the river. So there will be gates all up and down the wall so the communities can continue to have water. All this to stop humans from working minimum wage jobs we want to save for Americans to work for the foreign born Doctors etc. This is so f***ed up.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) *tosses bait* No, I went to college to take real classes. /runs

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) I took world cinema and history of the silent films as humanities classes. I enjoyed the films and the subject matter of both classes but my silent film prof was a douche — gave me a crappy grade on a paper that was, naturally, quite stellar. B) Why did they call it history of the silent films when that was all that existed when you were an undergrad?

Michael Phelps for NORML

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 03:48 PM) You guys were all against a special election. Until a Democrat proposes it. Hilarious. continue. I'd be in favor of changing the system before, not during, it being used.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 04:21 PM) But we also have the opposite Tex, where people are afraid to speak up for fear of being sued. Maybe the rancher next door thinks twice before reporting on the 50 Mexicans running across his back 40 for fear of being sued for violating their civil rights to steal healthcare and other public services from Americans. You already have that now where people who speak up about things that may be wrong on airplanes being sued for violating someones 'rights'. I agree. Which is why I would not want to see a retaliation suite brought against the Mexican nationals. Then we go back to frontier justice and survival of the fittest.

I'm taking Lit and Fil Studies in the English Dept. I was assuming different Dept would have a different approach to the topic.