JUGGERNAUT

His 852 vs Radke is most impressive. That's over 68+ AB's. He owns him. We need a guy with kind of success. We need guys that keep these 6 from dominating against us year after year. All 6 of those pitchers own winning records vs the CWS from 02-04. Ray can help change that.

I want Durham back (plus $5M towards his salary). Take a look: Ray vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 864, 838 Ray vs Moroth, Johnson : 1000, 681 Ray vs Santana, Radke : 1300, 852 These are the 6 guys in the ALC that own winning records against us the past 3 yrs. Ray practically owns Radke & that my friends can mean the difference between winning & losing. There is no other guy I see out there that can come in with a resume that good against the guys that shut us down right now.

If SFG throws in $5M w Durham then we're talking. Ray vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 864, 838 Ray vs Moroth, Johnson : 1000, 681 Ray vs Santana, Radke : 1300, 852 GET HIM! Now! We have few players with success against 5/6 top ALC. Ray can help us beat our rivals.

But again Beltran didn't think through this. As long as he remains a fan favorite there is no way Houston would trade him against his wishes. It's not going to happen. He had a 7 yr deal. No-trade for 2 yrs, & by the 4th yr he can demand a trade to a team he wants to play for. Just like Vazquez. That acts like a no-trade or limited trade clause. So it was really just the 3rd yr he was unprotected & I'm sure Houston would have been willing to give him that extra yr of protection. On the other side of the coin, if this is what really prevented Houston from signing him than they should have given him the full 7 yr no-trade clause. Look at S Green. He had a no-trade clause but when it became obvious that the LAD didn't want him any more it becomes meaningless. He's going to waive it to play elsewhere. If Beltran found himself in a similar situation with Hou it would be the same thing. Stars are not going to play for teams that don't want them. It's that simple. Sosa maybe the only exception because no one else wants him that badly either.

Boone vs Sabathia, Westbrook: 652, 915 Boone vs Maroth, Johnson : 1400, 476 Boone vs Santana, Radke : 856, 659 So he can help us win vs 3/6 top ALC pitchers for 6M/yr. No thank you. I'd rather take my chances with Rollins, Polanco, or Castillo who haven't really faced the top 6 but all of whom have hit Milwood better than average.

Polanco vs Milwood, Sauerback: 1333, 1300 Polanco vs Moroth, Johnson : 000, 500 Polanco vs Lohse, Radke: 333, 1000 Similar boat with Rollins. Most exp vs Milwood. But I'd take him over Rollins because he did beat Radke when he faced him.

Rollins vs Milwood, Sabathia : 750, 1500 Rollins vs Moroth, Johnson: 286, 237 Rollins vs Santana, Radke: 500, 000 Grant it he only had a few ab's against all but Milwood but he certainly didn't make the most of them. There's a greatly probability they will dominate him than he'll succeed. No to Rollins.

Byrnes vs Westbrook, Sabathia: 884, 661 Byrnes vs Moroth, Johnson: 737, 200 Byrnes vs Santana, Radke: 641, 000 I fail to see how he will help the CWS. Let's face facts. The CWS for the last 3 yrs has been in the hunt entering Sept. Then they get their arses kicked. We need finishers. We need guys that have good success vs the top 6. We have enough to slug out the first 5 months & remain in contention. We need finishers!

The deal has not worked out great for the CWS. You're letting KW off the hook. Lee was the most sought after talent on the CWS. Many teams wanted Lee. His trade value was at an all-time high. Salary purge or not, KW should have gotten much more than 2 avg at best players & a PTBNL that will likely never see his name in lights at the Cell. This was a bad trade for the CWS.

quote: Horrible Defensively, Obp issues, Nasty Contract, Swings from the heels. He is not horrible defensively. He is similar to Jose Valentin in regards to his D. Can make the great play & solid on DP's but prone to miss the simple play. He is a consistent 250+ hitter month to month. Say what you will about his OBP but the CWS have few players on the team than can make the same claim. He doesn't have a contract! He's an RFA for one more year. Yes he is prone to the K but he hits on more ab's when he misses. He's never had a slump to cause him to hit so poorly he'd reach Crede's or Davis' average. You are way underestimating Soriano's value as a hitter. But since he doesn't own the top 6 in the ALC I don't think he's worth the price he would command.

The thing we have to ask now is what could we have gotten for Lee. That's the only way to measure this trade. I know many of you are chalking it up to a salary purge but many teams wanted Lee. Which means you can still get your purge & decent talent in return. I think KW got fleeced on this one. He got average players at best in Pods & Vizcaino for a budding superstar in Lee.

Babe Ruth (.342, 714), Jimmie Foxx (.325, 534), Ted Williams (.344, 521), Lou Gehrig (.340, 493), Stan Musial (.331, 475), & Frank Thomas (308,436). Bonds is very close: (300, 703). Bonds will most certainly make this list & pass Thomas. I still think Thomas needs to have at least one more MVP or a couple of near MVP seasons to overcome the fact that he was primarily a DH for the 2nd 1/2 of his career. As for Buerhle, he doesn't have overpowering stuff so to make the HOF he'd have to win 300 games. He's have to pitch 15 more years & avg 2 wins more a year to reach that mark.

Another thread has Luis Castillo mentioned. He has hardly any experience against any of the top 6 in the ALC but he does have a 774 OPS vs Milwood. I think overall, the CWS should look for guys with high OBP's first & SLG 2nd. That would place Castillo over Soriano. Uribe proved that just about any one can slug at the Cell. But we need guys who can hit & get on more than sluggers.

Castillo has virtually no experience against the top 6 in the ALC. He does have a 774 OPS vs Milwood. But there's really no comparison. Soriano 2002-04 avg's: Apr .354A, .399O, .565S May .253A, ..296O, .490S Jun .307A, .341O, .494S Jul .257A, .293O, .511S Aug .275A, .317O, .504S Sep .301A, .348O, .556S Castillo 02-04 avg's: April .283, .332, .350, .682 Soriano beats him. May .338, .400, .409, .809 He beats Soriano. June .305, .375, .390, .765 Soriano beats him. July .332, .400, .405, .805 He beats Soriano. Aug .283, .362, .341, .703 He beats Soriano. Sep .285, .371, .319, .690 Soriano beats him. Intangibles: post-season Soriano 03: .267O, .296S, 4R, 9RBI, 71AB/16H Soriano 02: .211O, .353S, 2R, 2RBI, 17AB/2H Castillo 03: .291O, .268S 6R, 4RBI, 71AB/15H It's a tough decision betw these two because Soriano starts strong & finishes strong. Castillo does not. The past 3 yrs the CWS has been in the div hunt entering Sep. They've been weak finishers. Soriano would certainly help that problem. But you can't negate the fact that the CWS play in the Cell. That means guys with high OBP are needed more than guys with high SLG. Castillo is more likely to raise his SLG at the Cell than Soriano is to raise his OBP. All things considered using Uribe as an example Castillo would make a better fit for the CWS.

I looked it up in the Soriano thread. I'm saying no to Soriano. MIN owns him. He will not help us defeat our division rivals. That's all that matters.

Soriano vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 182, 1192 Soriano vs Maroth, Johnson : 1556, 879 Soriano vs Santana, Radke : 400, 556 The answer is no. Koney has better numbers than that. Koney vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 1064, 487 Koney vs Maroth, Johnson : 735, 917 Koney vs Santana, Radke : 538, 836 We need guys who can succeed against Westbrook, & Radke more than anything else.

I've looked this up in more detail & our biggest weakness the past 3 yrs is our performance against the top 6 opposing pitchers in the ALC (Westbrook, Sabathia, Maroth, Johnson, Radke, Santana). We do not have a winning record against any of them! I want the guy who has done the best against all 6 of them. I think that's Soriano but I'll look it up to make sure.

Dye vs Westbrook: 1000 OPS Dye vs Sabathia : 1214 OPS Dye vs Maroth : 1133 OPS Dye vs Johnson : 0900 OPS Dye vs Santana : 0878 OPS Dye vs Radke : 0448 OPS It's improvement over most. AJ vs Westbrook: 583 OPS AJ vs Sabathia : 333 OPS AJ vs Maroth : 900 OPS AJ vs Johnson : 1000 OPS CLE owns him. Pods vs Milwood : 900 OPS Pods vs Johnson : 1333 OPS Pods vs Radke : 333 OPS Pods vs Santana : 333 OPS MIN owns him. Rowand vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 000 OPS, 733 OPS Rowand vs Maroth, Johnson : 1529 OPS, 629 OPS Rowand vs Santana, Radke : 750 OPS, 833 OPS Koney vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 1064 OPS, 487 OPS Koney vs Maroth, Johnson : 735 OPS, 917 OPS Koney vs Santana, Radke : 538 OPS, 836 OPS Thomas vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 333 OPS, 1263 OPS Thomas vs Maroth, Johnson : 1081 OPS, 988 OPS Thomas vs Santana, Radke : 1222 OPS, 817 OPS Uribe vs Milwood, Sabathia : 237 OPS, 789 OPS Uribe vs Maroth, Robertson : 818 OPS, 1017 OPS Uribe vs Santana, Radke : 833 OPS, 433 OPS A healthy Dye & Thomas are key to the CWS. They have the best overall success against the top 6 opposing pitchers in the ALC. W/out both of them we can't win the div. Everett vs Westbrook, Sabathia : 1415, 585 Everett vs Johnson, Robertson : 544, 600 Everett vs Santana, Radke : 1056, 399

Well now we can finally assess the RJ trade. The AZD traded RJ + 3 mlers for $19M, Vazquez, Halsley, & Green. Was it a good trade? I think it was because every player the AZD received is now locked up for a few years.

02-04: Westbrook vs CWS: 3W-1L Sabathia vs CWS: 5W-2L Santana vs CWS: 3W-3L Radke vs CWS: 6W-4L Maroth vs CWS: 4W-3L Robertson vs CWS: 2W-1L Johnson vs CWS: 2W-2L Over the past 3 yrs we do not have a winning record vs the 1-2 starters of the Twinks, the Tribe, & the Tiggers. You can not expect to win a division as long as that is the case.

Look it up! Batting #1 he had a 907 OPS. His 3yr avg is 874 OPS.

Well I've never been a huge Maggs fan to begin with. I saw & read about too many games where he collected 5 or 6 rbi's in a blowout game. It's why I don't put much stock in the accumulated yearly stats any more. Any reliably good hitter can pound the ball against the weakest pitching in the majors. Sosa & Maggs excel at that. Is it any coincidence that when Sosa & McGuire were battling for the HR title that year that the NLC had one of the worst staff era averages of any division in MLB? I prefer guys who are low-key solid hitters like Thomas & Dye who have proven their ability to hit the best pitchers in MLB.

Speed? : Improved with Pods Rotation? : Improved with El-Duque Defense? : Improved with Dye. Hitting? : Improved with healthy Dye, Thomas, & AJ. Relief? : Improved with Hermannson a lot, Luis a little. Meanwhile the Twinks lost Koskie, Guzman, Mientcy. Re-vamping their IF in 2005. What's the probabilities the new guys will be as good or better D than the old ones? If you were a betting man you would say the CWS improved over last yr's injury plagued team at the same time the Twinks got weaker. That should give the CWS a nod in the div race. But there are intangibles in these races. Can this CWS team beat the pairs of Santana-Radke & Westbrook-Sabathia? Because that's really been the difference in the division. We haven't been able to beat the top pitchers in the ALC or the AL period. All in all I give the CWS a slight edge over the Twinks & CLE.

It's better than nothing, but he can't run & I doubt he has any real chance of ever playing 1B for the CWS. So his value to the organiz is basically trade bait. In conclusion we gave Lee away for a specialist reliever who is likely to struggle in the AL, & a speedy OF who had a precipitous decline in his soph year at the plate. I still hate this trade.

I'm 99% sure it didn't make a difference because if you look at many states they were decided by less than a few 100K votes. Maybe these irregularities gave Bush the nod in Ohio but the same can be said for Kerry in PA.