JUGGERNAUT

KC has no reason to settle for what amounts as Beltran for Garcia. Especially since Steinbrenner wants Beltran as much as Boston does. Right now the NYY are using Lofton in CF & Williams at DH & it seems to be working for them. Clearly signing Beltran to a 100+ MIL deal is an obvious choice for NY to make. We know that the Yanks have made trades in the past to prevent BOS from getting players & this will be no different. The Yanks have enough parts to where they can pull in other teams to create a better pkg for KC. The Yanks do not need both Williams & Giambi so what would either of these players at a discount get them from other teams? Because that's how the Yanks work. They take their high priced older talent + cash & swap it out for younger talent. The obvious trade to consider is this: KC -> Beltran to NYY NYY-> Giambi+cash to OAK OAK-> The least of Hudson, Mulder, & Zito to KC Now you're talking one of the best pitchers in the league for arguably the best CF in the league. Is this really far-fetched since Williams is now a DH & the NYY have 1B prospects in their system? OAK is struggling to score runs & looks like it might miss the post-season. Giambi+cash is looking pretty good right now to both provide a jolt to the weak fan base & make a run for the post-season. The Yanks might not even have to give up the A's pitcher in this trade. If they wait long enough they might be able to give up Lieber & a package instead. If the rumors out of BOS grow to the point they did with BOS & Colon I would expect the NYY to step up & make this trade. You can find a big bat 1B in just about any year in FA. But to find a future MVP GG CF .. well that's pretty rare.

Gay Marriage debate: http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=18896 Outsourcing debate: http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=18902

The SC of US has decided not to block the decision of the SC of MA to allow gay marriages. Scalia warned a year ok when the USSC stuck down sodimy laws that marriage would be next. No one dreamed a year later that the sanctity of marriage would be a major issue in the 2004 election but here we are roughly 6 months before election time & MA is about the become the first state to legally grant gay marriage licenses. Inevitably you can not debate gay marriage w/out including a debate on homosexuality itself. But before doing so I will say this: traditionally in America marriage has been equated with child bearing. A man & woman get married to bring new life into world together. Not life they purchased through adoption or invitro insemination but life they created together in their own images. Of course there were exceptions but that was by & large the standard of what marriage meant. On that basis our insurance laws, tax laws, & all other laws pertaining to unions were formed. IMHO, this is were the human rights violations occur towards not just gays but others in this country who have strong personal relationships with others outside of the traditional context of marriage. These relationships do not have to be sexual in nature. Therefore I believe in upholding the sanctity of marriage to remain as a union between a man & woman but I likewise believe in allowing persons to form other civil unions for tax & insurance purposes in the same manner that credit agencies allow for co-signers on loans. The state should recognize any such union when it comes to insurance, tax, or other money & health matters. Gays, straights, whatever should be able to support one another in these matters regardless of their being single, married, adolescent, etc. What could be more important than the ability for people to help one another in money & health matters? Unfortunately that is not the heart of the matter for the gays themselves. This is about changing the culture through effective media pressure to endoctrinate Americans towards acceptance of their lifestyle. When they are interviewed the issues I spoke about above seem all but oblivious to their need for social acceptance above all else. They want their lifestyle to be seen as being no less normal than heterosexuals. You can't really blame them for that, because that pretty much pertains to any minority group in America. Whether it be tax-paying S&M enthusiasts or gays & lesbians they all want to be accepted. Unfortunately the jury is still out & is leading towards their being classified as abnormal when it comes to science. Nothing is conclusive yet, but recent research studies out of the UK have led to new studies being conducted in the US & scientists world wide are putting more resources into this most-controversial matter. The studies from the UK suggest that Testerone levels in the woman during pregnancy play a major role in determining their sexual preference. Basically the research suggests that sexual preference is made up primarily of 2 parts: biological development & exposure to the lifestyle. Biological development addresses abnormalities during the development of the fetus such as T levels. Exposure to the life style addresses media, parental/guardian guidance, school guidance, workplace guidance, & peer pressure. With a sample size greater than a 1000 they found a direct correlation between T levels & exposure. Higher T levels required greater exposure to the lifestyle to guide the child to a gay lifestyle. Lower T levels required less exposure. These findings where significant enough to where several other universities are now conducting their own research in this area not just because of the controversial issue but more so the science one in which a fetus can be both manipulated genetically or chemically by altering the chemical physiology of the mother. But all that being said, science has just tapped the tip of the iceberg on this issue and a LOT more information will be available to reach a conclusion in the near future. Until then we do have the biological argument that the human body is naturally designed for procreation & given that the homsexual population in humans has remained no greater than 10% for 10's of 1000's of years it certainly would seem to be more of an abnormality than anything else. That's just basic science. There is another recent finding popping up all over the world that lends greater credence to the 2 part correlation study in the UK. Thousands of new cases among therapists are being documented for the so-called confused gender persons. These are people in their 30+ years who regret their lifestyles & regret not having a strongly developed reverse-sex ego. Therapists are documenting these cases while still upholding the client-patient privacy rights. The majority of cases seem to stem from the parent-wishes syndrome. By parent I mean parent or guardian. Cases where the mom strongly wanted a girl & got a boy or strongly wanted a boy & got a girl. In these cases the mom desire was so strong that she raised the child to fit that desire. Boys dressed up as girls & encouraged in girl activities & vice versa. It appears that the years where individuals feel the strongest pull to fatherhood & motherhood is where these persons are feeling the regrets. Now this is far too-controversial a matter to suggest that any of these findings are conclusive. The fact of the matter is that science is still in it's infancy on the issue. However; in the area of science the benefit of the doubt falls on abnormal. Science is rigorous in it's acceptance of any theory or hypothesis being classified as normal or predominant or worthy of being treated as a law. The demographics only support this classification. My own personal opinion is that exposure to the life style will be the GCF when the studies are complete. But that doesn't condemn gays & lesbians any more than alcholics or chain smokers. Repeated exposure to any alternative way of life in America will ultimately lead to acceptance of it. Every behavioral study confirms this. It is not the job of government to legislate morality but it is the job of government to teach it & endoctrinate it's citizens in it. My own personal belief is that a homosexual lifestyle is an immoral one. But that does not mean that it should be treated as such in schools. No that is not the moral question surrounding the issue. The moral question is deals with taking a bias to teach that it is a moral one. That is the problem. Teaching related to homosexuality should be matter of fact & this includes all data pertaining to it being a MINORITY life-style. It should be taught in the context that it applies to less than 10% of the population. Period. I personally believe it should be taught in the context of a sexual fetish because that's really what it is. It is the agenda of school officials, media, & others that use every measure in their power to equate the life style as being no less normal than a heterosexual one is what I find both offensive & immoral & counter-productive to society as a whole.

I applaud you for posting this because I question Stanford's reasoning in conducting such an experiment. The last part for certain borders on sexual harrassment laws which now exist in most states in the context where it is the state & not the victim that decides whether to prosecute the assailant. But let's put that aside for now. What I question in this experiment is what purpose does it have w/out first putting the guards through a rigorous training/endoctrination program? And perhaps that's the key to this. There is a big difference between endoctrination & training. Training is void of a value system & it's presented as a this is what you "should" do. Endoctrination is much more disciplines & the material is presented as a this is what you "will" do. And there lies the whole point behind the culture war in America. If you think about it both qualitatively & quantatively the fault lies in the school system. In the absence of morally endoctrinated parents, teachers, & admins a student acquires a value system from media & peers. The difference between America pre-1960's & post 1960's is that the value system (predicated on Christianity) was ENDOCTRINATED into the lives of Americans. The same value system was prevalent in the home, in the school, & in the work place. Yes there were exceptions as there will always be exceptions, but by & large society as a whole had the same endoctrinated value system. Some of those values were bad. The unequal treatment of blacks is one of them. But those bad values were not widely accepted to where they were not w/out challenges. Eventually the Christian values spearheaded by MLK & others bore a hole through those that choose to persist in the bad values because of the feeling of power & greed it gave them. Eventually good triumphed over evil with the civil rights movement. Today America's kids are endoctrinated by video games, movies, TV, music & of course the internet. Even peer pressure takes a back seat to the influence of these interactive inputs to their senses. It is time to endoctrinate them in the schools with a basic understanding of right & wrong. That understanding does exist & is at the core of every major life philosophy that exists in this world. It is basic morality 101. I can say proudly that if I had been drafted into that experiment above I would not have stood for such abuse. Either it would stop or I would die trying to prevent it. The same applies to if I had been assigned to that prison. That is what a core value system produces. People willing to die for the sanctity of human rights.

Nuking Iraq would push the global economy into depression. The fallout amongst the region would make it difficult to maintain current oil supplies. The price of oil would easily rise $10 a barrel & decrease US purch power by close to 100 BIL. That's a recipe for disaster for the world. It's better to pull back to Kurdish-controlled regions & back the Kurds in a civil war against the radical Shiites & Shia militia. It's selfish with respect to the Iraqi people but the most important resource in the world today is the OPEC oil supply. It must be secured & protected. OPEC should pay for that protection & security to offset the fact that the EU doesn't seem to give a damn. The oil barrons of the world just need a reason to raise praises. The bombing in Saudia Arabia gave them that reason. Whether it really has an effect on supply is meaningless.

Ok no one apparently disagrees with me on the gambing issue Issue for today: profiteering vs honest profits Fact: $1 increase in a barrel of oil = $7 BIL decrease in US purch power Fact: Exxon produced a 21 BIL profit in 2003. More than Microsoft. The FL DA's office is investigating oil companies & profiteering to decide whether to sue the oil companies later this year. Florida is hit harder than most states by the rise of inflation in oil dependant sectors like tourism. The reason why this is a culture issue is because most Americans believe in corporations right to make profits. It's the Adam Smith Wealth of Nations american way. But some of us are not Smith purists any more. We recognize that in an interconnected global economy where a corporation has a global presence much larger than that of an American one Smith's traditional supply & demand theories break down & a much greater hand is needed to balance the needs of society & govt vs the needs for a corp to earn a profit. Should the oil industry be regulated to prevent collusion & profiteering? Our greed based culture traditionally prefers less to more regulation. But in 2004 is our dependancy on oil any less than that of water? I believe in the modern age that oil dependancy is no less in importance than electricty. In that respect just as Com-Ed has to get rate hikes approved so to should the oil companies have to get price increases approved. If nothing else it will delay price increases & give us more time to prepare for them. This is not a radical measure like that of which occured in CA. It's simply applying the same measures we use now to limit the profiteering by corps like Com-Ed.

My catch phrase for today: $1 rise in a barrel of oil = $7 BIL decrease in US purch power. Ok it's not really catchy but the point is obvious. Back the Kurds & work a deal to secure an Iraqi oil supply for the US for years to come.

========================================== Thu, May 13(2) v BAL W6-5 POG: Paul Konerko (2rbi 1b, 3rbi HR) AOG: Damaso Marte (1.3 flawless ip hon ment: Koch) BOG: Paul Konerko (125 pts!) GoG: Juan Uribe (hon ment: Joe Crede, Paul Koney) Comments: Big win for SOX! Splitting a dbl hdr & winning the O's series was a must leading into the Twinks series. Felix Diaz's debut for the SOX implodes in 5th. He finishes with 50 pts .. ouch! A key play in the 9th by JC & PK was crucial. PK got a nice pick off a throw with JC recovered from a muff. ========================================== CL(31)=19+12 MO(49)=22+2+16+7+2 JC(26)=18+8 PK(125)=35+85+5 RG=4 JV=2 AR=5 JU=22 FT=9 FD(250/5=50)=0+50+0+20+180 MJ=25+0 ST=10 DM=0+0 BK=7 ========================================== BALTIMORE 1ST FD=0 CHICAGO SOX 1ST -C Lee singled to left. 10 -M Ordonez singled to center, C Lee to second. 15,2 -J Crede walked, C Lee to third, M Ordonez to second. 9,2,2 -C Lee scored, M Ordonez to third, J Crede to second on wild pitch by E Bedard. 5,5,5 -P Konerko singled to left, M Ordonez and J Crede scored. 35,2,4 BALTIMORE 2ND -R Palmeiro homered to right. 50 CHICAGO SOX 2ND BALTIMORE 3RD CHICAGO SOX 3RD -C Lee singled to center. 10 -M Ordonez flied out to right, C Lee to second. 2,2 BALTIMORE 4TH -R Palmeiro walked. 5 -J Lopez singled to center, R Palmeiro to second. 15 CHICAGO SOX 4TH BALTIMORE 5TH -L Matos homered to left. 50 -L Bigbie singled to left. 10 -J Hairston Jr homered to left, L Bigbie scored. 70 -M Mora homered to right. 50 FD=180 -M Jackson relieved F Diaz. -M Tejada doubled to deep center. 20 -R Palmeiro walked. 5 MJ=25 CHICAGO SOX 5TH BALTIMORE 6TH CHICAGO SOX 6TH -M Ordonez singled to left. 10 -F Thomas walked, M Ordonez to second. 7,2 -J Crede bunted into fielder's choice to first, F Thomas out at second. 2 -P Konerko homered to left center, M Ordonez and J Crede scored. 85,4,6 BALTIMORE 7TH -S Takatsu relieved M Jackson. -M Tejada singled to center. 10 ST=10 -D Marte relieved S Takatsu. DM=0 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -J Uribe doubled to deep left center. 20 -M Ordonez walked. 5 -F Thomas walked, J Uribe to third, M Ordonez to second. 9,2,2 BALTIMORE 8TH CHICAGO SOX 8TH -P Konerko walked. 5 -J Valentin sacrificed to first, R Gload to second. 2,2 -A Rowand intentionally walked. 5 -M Olivo flied out to right, R Gload to third. 2,2 BALTIMORE 9TH -B Koch relieved D Marte. -L Bigbie walked. 5 -J Hairston Jr grounded out to third, L Bigbie to second. 2,2 BK=7

========================================== Thu, May 13 v BAL L1-0 POG: Jon Garland (7ip, 1r, 0er) AOG: Jon Garland (14 pts!) BOG: Sandy Alomar (best hit (ron 1 1b) GoG: Wille Harris Comments: 25 pts might be lowest BOG of the year. ========================================== RG(24)=12+12 FT(14)=7+7 SA(25)=5+20 TP=9 CL=2 JG(97/7=14)=40+10+0+5+17+25+5 NC(4)=0+7 ========================================== BALTIMORE 1ST -B Roberts singled to center. 10 -B Roberts stole second, B Roberts safe at third on throwing error by catcher S Alomar Jr. 10 -M Mora singled to left center, B Roberts scored. 20 JG=40 CHICAGO SOX 1ST -R Gload reached on infield single to third. 10 -F Thomas walked, R Gload to second. 7,2 BALTIMORE 2ND -J Lopez singled to left. 10 JG=10 CHICAGO SOX 2ND BALTIMORE 3RD JG=0 CHICAGO SOX 3RD -S Alomar Jr walked. 5 =C Lee grounded into fielder's choice to third, S Alomar Jr out at second. 2 BALTIMORE 4TH -M Mora walked. 5 JG=5 CHICAGO SOX 4TH BALTIMORE 5TH -J Lopez singled to center. 10 -B Surhoff grounded out to second, J Lopez to second. 2 -J Gibbons walked. 5 JG=17 CHICAGO SOX 5TH BALTIMORE 6TH -M Mora reached on bunt single to catcher. 10 -M Tejada singled to center, M Mora to second. 15 JG=25 CHICAGO SOX 6TH -R Gload singled to right. 10 -F Thomas walked, R Gload to second. 7,2 BALTIMORE 7TH -L Matos walked. 5 JG=5 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -T Perez walked. 5 -S Alomar Jr singled to left, T Perez to third. 20,4 BALTIMORE 8TH -N Cotts relieved J Garland. NC=0 CHICAGO SOX 8TH BALTIMORE 9TH -J Lopez safe at first on throwing error by pitcher N Cotts. 5 -B Surhoff grounded into fielder's choice to first, J Lopez out at second. 2 NC=7 CHICAGO SOX 9TH

========================================== Tue, May 11 v BAL W15-0 POG: Mark Buehrle (7ip, 0r) AOG: Mark Buehrle (11, 7ip, 0r) BOG: Magglio Ordonez (6rbi, 1rs,2 2b, 2 1b) GoG: Carlos Lee (hon mens: Harris & Maggs) Comments: Possibly the 2 best AOG & BOGs of the Year! Mark Buehrle with 11 pts & Maggs with 149 pts! ========================================== WH(97)=11+2+24+16+36+10 JV(110)=21+2+2+70+15 MO(149)=49+30+25+45 FT(91)=11+80 CL=6 RG(56)=45+11 SA(42)=16+26 JU(33)=12+21 TP(74)=15+49+10 AR=6 JB=5 MB(74/7=11)=0+12+0+0+20+25+17 JA(3)=0+5 ========================================== BALTIMORE 1ST MB=0 CHICAGO SOX 1ST -W Harris walked. 5 -J Valentin reached on bunt single to third, W Harris to second. 15,2 -M Ordonez doubled to left, W Harris scored, J Valentin to third. 45,4,4 -F Thomas walked. 5 -C Lee FC to 3rd, J Valentin out at home, M Ordonez to third, F Thomas to second. 2,2,2 -R Gload singled to center, M Ordonez and F Thomas scored, C Lee to third. 45,2,4,4 BALTIMORE 2ND -R Palmeiro singled to center. 10 -J Gibbons grounded into fielder's choice to second, R Palmeiro out at second. 2 MB=12 CHICAGO SOX 2ND -S Alomar Jr singled to right. 10 -W Harris grounded out to first, S Alomar Jr to second. 2,2 -J Valentin grounded out to first, S Alomar Jr to third. 2,2 -M Ordonez doubled to left, S Alomar Jr scored. 30,2 BALTIMORE 3RD MB=0 CHICAGO SOX 3RD -J Uribe singled to center. 10 -T Perez singled to left, J Uribe to second. 15,2 BALTIMORE 4TH CHICAGO SOX 4TH -W Harris hit a ground rule double to deep right center. 20 -J Valentin grounded out to first, W Harris to third. 2,2 -M Ordonez singled to left center, W Harris scored. 20,2 -M Ordonez to second on balk by S Ponson. 5 BALTIMORE 5TH -L Matos doubled to right. 20 MB=20 CHICAGO SOX 5TH BALTIMORE 6TH -J Hairston Jr singled to center. 10 -J Hairston Jr stole second. 10 -M Mora walked. 5 MB=25 CHICAGO SOX 6TH -W Harris singled to center. 10 -J Valentin homered to right, W Harris scored. 70,6 BALTIMORE 7TH -J Gibbons singled to right. 10 -L Bigbie walked, J Gibbons to second. 7 MB=17 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -R Gload walked. 5 -J Uribe singled to left, R Gload to second. 15,2 -T Perez grd to deep left center, R Gload scored, J Uribe to third. 45,4,4 -S Alomar Jr singled to shallow center, J Uribe scored. 20,2 -W Harris singled to left, T Perez scored, S Alomar Jr to second. 30,4,2 -J Valentin walked, S Alomar Jr to third, W Harris to second. 9,2,2 -M Ordonez 1B to right, S Alomar Jr and W Harris scored, J Valentin to third. 45,2,4,4 -F Thomas homered to left center, J Valentin and A Rowand scored. 80,2,6 -J Burke walked. 5 BALTIMORE 8TH -J Adkins relieved M Buehrle. JA=0 CHICAGO SOX 8TH -T Perez singled to center. 10 -W Harris singled to center. 10 BALTIMORE 9TH -R Palmeiro walked. 5 JA=5

She's a degenerate endoctrinated from a degenerate lifestyle. I don't need statistics to come to that conclusion. The only mystery is what were the cause & effect relationships that led to that life style. That's what I want to know.

Of course some on this board will suggest that a Church-going woman would be just as likely to commit such acts. Get a clue! Common sense. If a person is born into or nurtured in such an environment then that environment will become her norm. It doesn't matter if one or two people tell her it's wrong or if it's written in a book somewhere that it's wrong. It's about the how the person is endoctrinated into such a culture. Endoctrination is about creating behavior & attitude in a person. It's important for the military to discover the root causes for her behavior. Of course common sense can pretty much lead us to what those are.

I was referring to what someone else had posted & clearly in my original post I was skeptical of that number. But your post hits the nail right on the head because you have a breakdown of Kurds vs non-Kurds. Your post only strengthens the argument that pretty much the only role the US is playing right now is that of preventing civil war & that the cost is far to high for little to gain. With respect to Shock & Awe you're darn right I was happy to see it. I didn't think we could afford it but I didn't know Saddam was feeding Kurds feet first through industrial strength plastic shredders either. If nothing else we have once & for all put an end to that kind of tyranny against the Kurdish people. Again this seems pretty simple. The non-Kurds don't like us & the Kurds do. So let's leave writhdraw to US friendly terr controlled by the Kurds & let the Kurds go at it for the rest.

For those who are gun control advocates I offer this bit of reality: Even if there was a moral justification & a majority opinion for gun control physically it is impossible to implement in 2004. We live in a day & age where criminals with money can litterally go into the business of not only producing guns but customizing them. It's not rocket science. You can buy everything you need for production without the govt having a clue. In the near future it will be even harder to control as gun production shifts from metal to specially formulated plastic that can withstand the heat temperatures. If you really want to control gun usage (that is not the same as outlawing guns) why not do something like enforce class time with the purchase of ammo? Every time you go to a store to buy ammo make a gun safety+morality class a requirement. They can buy the ammo when they show up with the certificate. This would be at least an intelligent response with respect to the research on the issue. The findings suggest that criminals do not go through legal means to obtain firearms but they do tend to go through legal means to obtain ammo. This is likewise supported in the number of criminals that have been tracked by law enforcement agents through ballistic studies. Now it's true that such a response would likely lead the criminals to go to illegal means for ammo, but it's much harder to smuggle ammo then guns.

In my opinion we have bitten off more than we can chew in Iraq. I hear this figure that 95% of Iraqi's want us there & it's only 5% who don't. Then I see dancing in the streets of Baghdad after seeing Bergs public execution. So I say to myself, if 95% of Iraqi's want us there why aren't they actively showing their support? If the answer is fear for their lives than the cause simply is not important enough for us to be there. I'm sorry but that's the way it is in war. If you're not willing to risk your life for the cause than the cause is not important enough to fight for. In my opinion the 95% is an over-estimated account. It's probably more along the lines of what it is in S Korea today (70% for the US, 30% vs the US). Only there the 30% represent the young you take freedom & democracy for granted & the 70% represent the old that are well aware of the old days & never want to go back to them. In any case, we need to let the politics of the region run it's course. We should stop trying to prevent a civil war, secure the oil fields & withdraw back to American friendly regions in Iraq. Those would be the ones under Kurdish control. For those who support us, they should be given the opportunity to withdraw. We are spending an insane amount of $ so better it be spent to employ, house, & feed are supporters than to be wasted on preventing a civil war. Once we have secured their safety amongst the Kurds. We let the Kurds battle our enemies for the control of the rest of the Iraq. An all-out Iraqi battle royale to determine the future of the nation. Likewise we let the Kurds weed out the spies that will inevitably come across as refugees. They know how to do that much better than we ever could. As long as they kill at a rate that prevents depiction of a slaughter it can't be viewed by the world as anything any more than a civil war. Which is usually viewed as a just war in the eyes of public opinion. It's just politics of the region.

DAMN them all to HELL! (My catch-phrase of the day). I'm sick to stomach in watching this crap any more. I no longer wish to liberate Iraq. I will settle for liberating the Kurds from Saddam's evil & murderous ways. If I were president I would meet with the Pentagon, arrange meetings with the Kurdish forces, & plan for a withdrawal of American forces from Shia & Shiite controlled Iraq. The rebuilding of Iraq will continue to go on in Kurdish controlled regions. These are the regions friendly to America & welcoming democracy & capitalism. I would make sure all oil regions were secure. And then I would let the Kurds do as they please with the Shia & Shiite controlled regions. As an America it's in my best interest to spread the Kurdish controlled regions throughout Iraq so I would provided them the munitions required to fight the Saddam loyalists in those regions. I would spell it out to them that we will kick their arses if they use are support towards the slaughter of innocent civilians. Personally if I happen to hear that the Kurds slaughtered the persons responsible for Berg's death I might throw a fist in the air. Though I would condemn the act publicly of course.

I wish. I just have e-mail addresses. Sometimes they reply & sometimes they don't. But they keep me on their mailing lists even when I don't agree with them

Really, to me it seems ridiculous to be losing American lives over having to be the peacemaker in Iraq. I hope many of you realize that's the main role we play now. The S boys (Shia's & Shiites) don't like being occupied by us. The K boys (Kurds) want retribution upon them from Saddam's years. So our occupation in reality means protecting the S boys. We are protecting people who neither want or feel the need for our protection. So .. Let's retreat to American friendly territory that the Kurds control, secure the oil fields & let Iraq go about it's bloody revolution to determine who will control it: The K boys or the S boys. Now one can argue that supporting the K boys in this effort is imperialistic in nature but honestly if you see a friend of yours getting slaughtered would you not lend a hand in their support? Saddam was never able to exterminate the Kurds though he spent many years trying. Clearly they are better trained to fight in the region than we are. Plus they are spiritually & emotionally inspired to do so. Let loose the real dogs of war & listen to the S boys cry for US protection.

First of all the WMD's are in all likelihood in Pakistan or Syria. To suggest they never existed is garbage because it's a fact he used them in the decades prior to GW2. On his own people no less. Secondly I never supported the war. When the campaign started I put a figure out there: 300 billion. People thought I was crazy. I told them how much do you think liberation wars cost? The military has to proceed like a surgeon & just like in Japan & Germany after WW 2 victory means spending a ton to rebuild them. So I simply made an intelligent decision that the cost was too high & the need was too low. However I had a much cheaper & bolder plan that I sent to Bush before the war. The best way to acheive a victory at the lowest cost in Iraq is to simply replace liberation of Iraq with liberation of Kurds. Suddenly the war is no longer about Iraq but about Saddam & the chief target of his regime. I told Bush to drop the WMD line way before his union address. I told him to begin a propaganda war bringing to the world the attrocities of the Kurds by Saddam (including the use of chem-bio WMDs on them) & to link their liberation cause with the same justification of the palestinians. Then I said once public opinion is swayed heavily in favor of the Kurds if Saddam does not comply with the UN resolutions then defeat his regime & mobilize the Kurds to control Iraq. =============================================== Having said that & given that we now live in 2004 I'm growing tired of this situation. If they don't like occupation then we should retreat to Northern Iraq in Kurd friendly regions & let the Shia's & Shiite's feel the Kurds wrath. They don't want us there any more so let them experience the consequences of our not being there. Saddam's regime is gone. Mission accomplished. Bring the UN inspectors back to prevent any further emergence of WMDs. Establish US military bases along the borders so that we have a Gitanamo like position over our enemies in Iran, Syria, & yes Saudia Arabia. Secure the oil fields & place them under a Kurdish-American force until a stable US friendly government emerges. It will emerge. It might take the slashing of a few million Saddam loyalists by Kurdish rebels but it most certainly will emerge.

Man, some of you are SO ANAL when it comes to debating! His statement doesn't imply ALL arabs are dancing in the street. It implies MOST arabs are dancing in the streets. With the facts that we know about the arabs & their PREDOMINANT feelings towards us is hard to argue with that. The main POINT he is trying to make is that historically the very fact that our feelings towards the arabs is not PREDOMINANTLY a medieval one is both rare & something America should be proud of. The fact that we are appauled more so by our own behavior than theirs is equally rare & something that sets us apart from ... the rest of the filthy animals on this planet! PS> I don't need to name names but the animals at the top of that list are also at the top of the oil for food iraqi scandal list. Hint: they talk funny & we like to make fun of their accents.

DAMN you all to HELL! Discuss gambling or get the HELL out of here! I said that in my best Charleton Heston voice.

No offense to any of you whom are OT zealots but do you understand the implications on Christianity if Paul had never come into being. Perhaps not Paul himself but a character of his magnitude? If you study the history of the faith in conjunction with the history of the world w/out St. Paul's impact on the world Christianity probably is smaller in numbers today than the Jewish faith itself. Another thing that makes you wanna say ... hmmm

Some people misunderstand the references of same-sex, sodomy, & sex in general in the Bible. The underlying theme is that the main purpose of sex in the eyes of God is to bring life into the world (reproduction). And not just reproduction in the sense of the mechanics but reproduction in the sense of God's love. Reproduction as a result of rape, incest, or any other human rights violation is not looked upon favorably in the eyes of God. However; the love, kindness, & dedication we show upon a child born of such ill circumstances is definitely noticed in a very favorable light by God. A creature may be born of evil, or created by evil circumstances but that does not mean it must be ruled by evil. To grow such a creature to the side of good creates greater joy in heaven than if the creature were to have been born from good. Jesus didn't say much about same-sex relations because there wasn't much to say. The OT pretty much said it all at the time & those engaging in the acts weren't exactly signing up for temple time so their story could be heard. What we do know is that Jesus' did weigh in on some of the more important issues of that time & his responses shine light on what his views would be on todays. It's interesting to note that where Jesus avoided questions dealing with present issues of the day by answering in parables & philosophy (it's no wonder why the Matrix does), Paul is pretty much the opposite. Paul takes the issues head on. In fact one of Paul's toughest statements to accept is that he implies it's better to be single than married because marriage inevitably makes one choose between the needs & wants of their spouse & those of God. These statements by Paul is what established the foundation for why priests & nuns should never marry & why that believe persists today. You can not serve two masters. One master exists free from temptation & the other (a spouse) does not. Paul weighs in on same-sex, being the master of one's domain (think Seinfeld), & everything else that pertains to issues confronted by the modern world. It's almost as if Paul knew that these issues would be prevalent in our day. I sometimes envision Paul as the Dean & Jesus as the counselor in this school called Christianity. Paul is a no-nonsense dude that won't hesitiate to discipline you for infractions. He's very smart & extremely detailed oriented so he doesn't miss much. Jesus is the cool dude that is liked by most & always standing up for his students. He always sees the good in them even when they can't see it themselves. And God is the big Kahuna. The owner of the school. You only see him when it's time to graduate & move on to the next world. Or I guess in the case of some he makes eariler visits when it comes to some one being expelled or suspended (early deaths & near death experiences). Most of us continue to be left behind & don't move forward in grades. it takes us much more than a few decades to finally graduate. Eventually time runs out & God has to decide whether to transfer us to another school (pergatory) because the one were in seems to hard for us. Pergatory then can be considered the schools for good kids with bad attitudes. Of course these kids might be well into their 70's or 80's when they arrive. Hell then is definitely reserved for bad kids with bad attitudes. The damned & the hopeless. Those for whom no amount of education will change their hearts. Makes you want to say ... hmmm

It helps to remain rooted in one version of the Bible. Something cwsox didn't even touch upon in his post referring to the cannons. The majority of Protestant denominations adhere to the King James Version of the Bible. Though I am Catholic I too adhere to this version because it is the least spoiled & the most complete. But I am not in awe of myself to the degree where I discount all other versions including those that are not found in either KJV or the latest Catholic one. The so-called banned books of the Bible. No I am one who studies the Bible from the perspective of a historian & sociologists .. seeking common themes to get a better picture of the true story that is underlying to the foundation of the prophecy links of the Bible. To add upon PA's glory to God statements: The purpose of existence is to love & serve God. As Christians, that becomes to love & serve our Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ. How do you do that? By reading St Paul & following what he preaches. Why Paul? Because Paul is the most pragmatic author in the Bible. The audience he is writing for is filled with skeptics & non-believers. But his words are so cut & dry to the point of what it means to be a Christian that they took root amongst these people & eventually conquered the ideology of the Roman Empire. Matrix note: PA, the Matrix fell from grace (pun intended) because Reloaded was convuluted in excess & burly brawl was no-where near as ground-breaking as bullet-time. How many times are we going to hear purpose in that trilogy? Did it not make you want to say ... ARRRGHHHHHHH .. enough already ... we get this simple minded point! IMHO, they would have been better off making 4 movies to tell the story. The second movie would have been better left delving into the Second Ren. Here they could have laid the ground work for the origin of the Oracle, Architect, & the Merovigian. Then in Reloaded when you revisist these characters it will make a lot more sense. The directors of the Matrix are pretty bad when it comes to using flash backs to tell the story. They prefer to simply narrate it with characters sitting in chairs or standing around & that's not a good idea for a big budget action flick.

QUOTE (JUGGERNAUT @ May 11 2004, 10:38 PM) It probably got lost in the Bible discussion so I'll post it again. Today's issue: Should gambling be regulated towards moderation? IMHO: Yes. The consensus by behavioral sciences is that binge & every day gambling takes on a similar addiction to that of alcoholism. Social problems stemming from losses are no less impacting on society than drunk drivers. The technology exists to enforce moderation. It requires giving up privacy in order to gamble but I think it's warranted because it's no less important than applying for loans or margin accts. To limit the invasion of privacy paypal & bank services could still be used but the account would have to be setup as a gamblng type so that the regulations would enforce the moderation. It could not be linked to other accounts. As for cash gambling that is harder to regulate but not impossible. It would require a valid id at which an account would be entered at the casino & that account would be governed by the same regulations. It will be tough to enforce casinos to share customer information so that would inevitably remain a loop hole: a cash gambler could skirt the limits by casino hopping. But even so, these measures would still greatly assist in moderating personal gambling activity.