JUGGERNAUT

I want the Twins eliminated AS SOON AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE! They are HOT right now. L10 7-3. Won 5 in a row. Could sweep the M's. The next time we face them they could be just 9 gms back. If they win that series then it shrinks to 7 gms. If they beat us in Sept it shrinks to 3 gms. Since we close out with DET & CLE that would be bad. Very bad. To go from the best record in MLB to having to beat both DET & CLE just to win the division would put tremendous pressure on this team. If we lost those 2 series we would be a laughing-stock. No thank you. I want no part of that future. The sooner we clinch the better.

These dog days of August sure are strange. Among the Reds headlines "Lindher calls Griffey Jr". It turns out he wanted to offer him tickets to a Tennis tournament his family sponsors or something like that. If it was just a call based on his Griffey Jr's wife's love of Tennis then why make it on the eve of the tournament? Why not last week when KGJ's family could prepare? It turns out his wife is coming up to OH for the weekend so she's sure to enjoy the tickets. But I can't help but think that Lindher was really trying to feel Griffey Jr out. The rumor's not going away. It's selling papers & ESPN. ESPN finds it more noteworthy to show a clip of Sox fans chanting "Griffey" than the game itself. It's selling MLB in general. Lindher probably can't watch TV, read the paper, or listen to the radio without hearing/reading Ken Griffey Jr's name. The fact that KGJ is the hottest player in MLB right now only fuels the interest. The last time MLB's head was swirling in regards to a player like this was A-Rod. We all know what happened in that story. The Sox could pull 1/2 a million more fans than 2004 this year. If they can get past the first round they might be in store for 100% growth in season ticket holders. There is that much riding on the line this year. Now maybe Lindher was just playing games with a Sox fans. Maybe the call was just about tennis & maybe the fact his family sponsors the event just slipped his mind a week ago. Regardless it still creates an opening for the WSox & KW needs to be relentless for the next 13 days to try & convince Lindher the Reds would be better with what the WSox have to offer. It's not about KGJ being the savior for the White Sox. This team remains the best combination of pitching & defense in the league. It might not own the best record in MLB but when you combine the pitching & defensive stats it's the stingiest team in baseball. With KGJ it just becomes a more potent & dangerous team. Pods-Iguchi-Griffey Jr : would be the best top of the order in MLB. Add that to the stingiest team in MLB & a championship is expected.

Eddie G was pulled back. Ibanez has not been specifically mentioned as being cleared. I read an article in one of the OAK papers that said Chavez has been campaigning for the A's to get another bat. The new owner has echoed the same sentiments that JR has: $$ is no object when it comes to post-season rosters.

If you take $23.5M off their hands for the next 3 yrs they can buy themselves a #1 starter.

He'll be fine. What matters most is how he's pitching in Sept leading into Oct.

http://www.fantasysportsjunkies.com/index2...do_pdf=1&id=205 This doesn't prevent minor leaguer's from being PTBNLs but it does affect AL-AL, NL-NL trades. That's pretty definitive that the same league restriction is AL-AL, NL-NL

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:wcFUW7Q...NL+trades&hl=en The nice thing about this link is that the guy includes examples. Search on PTBNL. The only restriction seems to be an AL ML can't go to another AL team & a NL ML can't go to another NL team. Other than that the PTBNL can be a ml, ML, or even a DL player. Oddly enough there have been two instances where both the original player & the PTBNL were the same player. A lot can happen w a 6 mo deadline

According to Neyer, wrt PTBNL: 1) Must be completed w/in 6 mos, 2) player can't be in same league as new team, 3) Teams can use cash instead of players if they can't agree There's no mention of the 40 man roster. The best way to clear up 2) would be to look for a case where the PTBNL was an active ML player. That would tell us whether to interpret it as AL/NL or ML,ml, indep, Japan, etc.

It shows up whenever a player has to clear waivers for an assignment to a ML or ml club. A trade is considered an assignment from one ML club to another. I'd agree it most likely was a non-issue with COL being one of the worst teams in the NL that year. Wrt the White Sox though it's a non-issue. According to Neyer's tran primer you have 6 months to declare a PTBNL & you can even use cash in lieu of such agreements. I can't find anything that disputes this so it seems very likely the White Sox could use PTBNL to complete a trade for KGJ. The ML waiver period ends on Oct 2nd. YASNY, option yrs don't have the same meaning during the OR & ML waiver periods. Ex: A player is promoted to a ML club & remains with that club for 4 yrs. The player would have all 3 option yrs left. But to assign him in Aug to either a ml club or ML club the team would have to secure ML waivers. See ML waiver rule. 3E8, please explain how players optioned to the ml's can be removed from the 40 man roster. I didn't see any transactions on Burch so it's likely he was not on the 40- man but Martinez & Narveson were definitely optioned to the ml's with STL.

You get: Ibanez (< $1M in 05, $4.2M in 06) :: VS. L: .291 / .793 VS. R: .296 / .831 H: .293 / .800 A: .296 / .839, RON: .316/.844 - A good plan B if we can't get KGJ. Guardado (< $1M in 05, $4.5M 06): VS. L: .214 / .619 VS. R: .174 / .472 H: .198 / .576 A: .164 / .403 - Goodbye Adkins, hello Eddie! You owe: 4-5 solid prospects Do you want a rcpt?

If you look at the transaction logs there are listings for players clearing waivers & being re-assigned to the minors in the month of August.

It appears your right. I found two other sources. Does same league mean NL/AL or just major league? Neyer also says you can include players currently on the DL as PTBNL. In any case it sounds like the CWS & Reds could structure this using PTBNL to skirt the ML waiver period. The Reds wouldn't get the players they want until Oct but they'll probably like that idea because they'll save a few more bucks that way. It sure would solve their 4 OF dilemma which is sure to get worse in Sept. Neyer also goes on to say that when the two teams can't agree on the PTBNL cash can be used instead. So it seems like it's just a $$$ issue then. Maybe desperation will loosen the purse strings.

List updated with info from http://www.mlb4u.com/trades.html.

Right. But you just opened another question box. Can a team really take up to 6 months to complete a PTBNL trade during the ML waiver period (Aug 1-Oct 2)? I found a cool site in the mean-time: http://www.mlb4u.com/rumors.html Somehow this site is tuned into players being discussed in trade talk around MLB & who shows up on waivers & such. It seems to get updated daily.

The part that had my head spinning was how does a player get charged for an option year in a year he doesn't report to a ML club? It's got to have something to do with waiver seasons for the off-season & ST. If you are on the 40 man roster in ST & get optioned to the ml's that costs you an option year even though you might never report to the ML club in the course of the season. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/transact...ar=2005&month=3 You can see all the players like Borchard for which this happened. As for BMac his first option year was spent when he optioned back to AAA on 5/27. He has 2 yrs remaining.

I found it. Mar, 2004 STL Optioned LHP Luis Martinez, LHP Chris Narveson to Triple-A Memphis You only option players signed to a ML deal to the mls. When a player is signed to a ML deal he is added to the 40 man roster. If he had no option years left then he would have had to clear OR waivers. He had at least 1 option year left so that wasn't necc. Both of these players were on STL 40 man roster. They were the PsTBNL in the Walker trade. They both had option years remaining. It was more than likely they had first reported to a ML club in either 2003, or 2002 & STL did not have to secure ML waivers on them before including them in the trade.

Because if Martinez signed a ML contract after being claimed off waivers from MIL then he was added to the 40 man roster. Optioning him to AAA doesn't change that. He was definitely one of the PTBNL in the Walker trade in Aug, 2004.

Check the transaction logs. The 3 mlers involved in the Walker trade were Busch, Novescon, & Martinez. If you find purchased contract that means they were not on the 40 man roster to start the season. If you find called up that means they were on the 40 man roster at the start. Again I think it's much more a question of $$$ than talent. The Sox don't seem willing to take on any more than a 1/3rd of what he's owed before 2009. The Reds want them to take on substantially more (at least 2/3rds if not the whole thing). The Sox have at least as many chips to deal with as STL did. Maybe the losing streak will change things.

Two ?: How can Martinez be claimed off of waivers from MIL & never be added to STL 40 man roster? Where did you read that the PTBNL cannot be on the 40 man roster?

Reason to hope: Aug, 2004 STL acquires Larry Walker from COL for mler pitcher Jason Burch & 2 PTBNL (turned out to be two more pitchers). Money wise the 37 yr old Walker was owed $4M in 2004, $12.5M in 2005, & a $15M option/$1M buyout in 2006. COL picked up $7.5M. Leaving STL on the hook for $10M. If STL was willing to take on $10M for a year & 2 mo's of Walker's services the CWS should be willing to take on $23.5M for 3 years & 1 mo of Griffey Jr's services. I don't think any one would suggest that Griffey Jr is worth any less than Walker was at that time. As for the 3 pitchers involved none of them are listed on COL's ML roster this year. So far the trade's been one sided.

Avoid the questions you are clueless to answer I see. So typical. Larry Walker trade. It happened. The mlers that were on the 40 man roster didn't have to clear ML waivers. Ignore it. That's what you're good at.

Hear no evil See no evil, Speak no evil

CWS .261A/.747OPS L10 4-6 OAK .266A/.742OPS L10 4-6 ANA .270A/.736OPS L10 6-4 BOS .284A/.821OPS L10 7-3 NYY .274A/.805OPS L10 6-4 Everett .266A/.790OPS Griffey .290A/.918OPS But where would we play him?

Griffey Jr (.290A) was 1/3 today with an RBI (83). 13 days & counting before we have to give up hope.

Do we need more than one at bat or will Griffey Jr do? I've often heard Kong say that Frank makes the whole lineup better. Wouldn't Griffey Jr have the same impact? The rumor still had the Reds on the hook for $15M/3yr. If they could get the White Sox to pick that up they would have enough ($23.5M/3yr) to pursue a #1 or #2 starter of the Clement mold. I don't think the White Sox will pick up that much but there's still 13 days left to hope.