witesoxfan

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) He's been hurt, so an Angels fan or not shouldn't be able to answer this with a definite answer. In my opinion, the White Sox will have to wait until Spring Training to see how far he's come along to see if he'll be able to play some center field. They should know with confidence that, when healthy, he'll be able to play CF. Otherwise, it's a waste of $1 mill.

QUOTE(drowninginflame @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 04:10 PM) this thread sucks. really. You suck for saying that seriously, if you don't like a thread, don't say a thing and slowly (or quickly) leave the thread

Thou caught talking on cell phone more than once at any game shall be punched

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 03:40 PM) right-handed, you are correct. my bad. Assumng Pods is out at the beginning of the season which leaves open a potential spot, I still would rather see Ozuna and probably Fields as right-handed lf options. Why not sign him anyway to a zero-cost, no risk (minor league) Junior Spivey-type deal? We already inquired about him, and his asking price was too high- one of those-type deals is not available. He'll undoubtedly get more playing time elsewhere, so long as he can prove he's healthy.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 01:26 PM) Because Contreras had a better season. Poppycock, didnt you know that Garland was an 18 game winner and wins are all that matter?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 01:28 PM) In baseball, not entirely...you can have a ton of natural baseball ability and be pretty darn unathletic. Some names like David Wells, CC Sabathia, Cecil Fielder, Tony Gwynn, Bobby Jenks come to mind immediately. Not exactly marathon runners, but pretty darn good baseball players. Defensively? ...there is reading the ball off the bat. Joe does it pretty well, but he's not as athletic as Fields by all accounts. If Fields can read the ball well off the bat, his athletic ability could allow him to become a pretty solid regular at 3B.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 09:43 AM) I remember the good old days, the days when this thread was about Nick Masset. meh, it happens

QUOTE(shipps @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 03:16 AM) Dude,Crede certainly has gold glove caliber defense.Just because he hasnt won one doesnt mean anything especially with that award.And as far as Fields being athletic enough is not the question, its just a matter of having the natural ability which Joe has. First of all, if you watched him, you'd realize he doesn't have near the range that Inge or Punto had last year, nor Chavez and Koskie when they were good defensively (haven't seen much of Koskie recently, but he was a wall at 3B when he was with the Twins - he just couldn't stay healthy enough to win a GG). I also haven't seen much of Beltre, but I've heard he's GG caliber defensively too, and there are others that are great defensively too. Crede's in the 4-6 range in terms of defense at 3B in the AL right now, leaving him in the top half, but not among the elite. Crede's not GG, and that I know. If he hits better, and he becomes more popular, than winning a GG is a possibility. It doesn't mean he's worthy though, because Jeter sure as hell isn't worthy. Oh, and... Ummm......yeah......sooooooo, you kinda just completely contradicted yourself. Cuz athleticism sort of has to deal with natural ability.....yeaaaaaaaaaaaah

QUOTE(shipps @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 02:14 AM) Wont we all feel like its a downgrade when Joe leaves?Fields will never be defensively what Joe is,never.I dont care how much more of a bat Fields brings. Never say never - Field's is athletic enough, and besides that point, Crede isn't a GG caliber defensive 3Bman. He's close - silver glove, if you will, but he's not gold. And defense can be a bit overrated, especially if the player is good enough offensively to make up for defensive shortcomings.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 12:41 AM) Im not saying that it is, but exactly how many Charlotte games did you attend to be able to say this statement? None. I'm going based off of what I've heard from other people, and from proven reliable stats (such as AB/K and BABIP, along with projections too). I figure it's a pretty fair assessment, and unless people expect Crede .260/.750, or if they expect Fields to hit .260/.750 - I would expect Crede to hit in the .280-.300/.800-.850 range with Fields hitting in the .230-.250/.700-.750 range. Perhaps not light years difference, but there's quite a bit.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's? It's simply not even close to true.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:25 PM) I've never understood what people see in her, I think she is absolutely disgusting. you just wish you could be in as good of shape as her

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 09:53 PM) I am starting to get freaked out by my own avatar. Thought I should share that with y'all. Where's the strange crushes thread when you need it?

greatest.quote.evar. --Serena Williams

I'm not even going to argue this anymore because some people just have trouble looking at the Indians and Sox objectively. I have no problem with people firmly believing the Sox are better than the Indians, but provide some research and analysis other than "weren't they bad...?" followed by why the Sox are good and other opinions. My opinion, right now, is that the Indians have a much more talented overall roster and should be the favorites in the AL Central going into the season next year. I have my reasons, and will explain if someone really wants me to.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) Can I see the stats on the term "most." Koch was a juicer. 100 MPH one day, 92 mph the next. The guy is out of baseball like that. Im sorry if you love him or whatever, but the guy was a one and done bust in the midst of the steroid era. Don't jump the gun so goddamn fast. That's the kind of thing that's gotten this website in trouble. It is possible, you know, for muscles and tendons to tear after heavy usage. Those 97 IP he had in 2002 were the most IP he'd thrown since 1998 when he was a starting pitcher. Add in to the fact that they were high stress innings too, and he had a pretty violent motion as I recall - it's very feasible and probably more realistic to assume that he had slight tears in his rotator cuff (even with him not admitting it) than it is to assume he used steroids. It's very possible, and perhaps likely, Koch was a 'roider. It's not a witch hunt though.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) Agree with you about their bullpen. Not to mention the stacked lineups in the AL East they will have to contend with. Anyone know anything about those prospects mentioned? Ellsbury is an OK hitter, but is better recognized for his defense in CF. Apparently quite good. Delcarmen and Hansen are middle relief prospects. Delcarmen has solid peripherals, but from what the numbers suggest, he's struggled with his command at times. Keith brought up Hansen a while ago, and while I haven't seen him much, the numbers suggest he is pretty overrated. Mediocre command and no ability to strike anyone out at all. Not sure what the hell the deal is with that and why they haven't sent him packing. Helton's declining pretty quickly, but I think he'd mash at Fenway, and he'll be an OBP machine until he's about 38-39. Buchholz is a good looking young SP prospect, but has yet to pitch above A+. Bard is Tiger's Andrew Miller's former college teammate at UNC, but had pretty mediocre numbers and just recently signed, so he won't be able to be actually traded until like next September. You can basically forget him. Lester was just recently cleared of cancer, as it says in the post above. He's not going anywhere. Like I said...if O'Dowd is seriously just asking for Lowell, Tavarez, and Hansen, I don't know how or why Theo hasn't moved yet. That's a no brainer in my mind.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) They were terrible last year and only marginally increased their arms by signing old has-beens. They COULD be solid, but statistics say they'll be average at best. Just remember folks, Cleveland was supposed to run away with the division last year and they finished near .500, even while outscoring opponents. Old has beens who put up ERAs of 4.00 and WHIPs of 1.30 is still better than what they had last year, and I think they'll be better than that. And Cleveland was ***NOT*** supposed to run away with the division last year. Of 19 writers, 11 picked the White Sox last year, 7 picked the Indians, and 1 picked the Twins (thanks Kalapse). Beyond that, their rotation got much worse from 2005 to 2006 (Paul Byrd replaced Kevin Millwood, and Jason Johnson replaced Scott Elarton), they got worse in LF moving from Coco to Michaels, and Travis Hafner was out for a month. They've improved all of those this year - Sowers is replacing Johnson as the 5th starter, the bullpen has been upgraded (whether people like that their 4 oldest pitchers combined age is 200+), and the entire lineup has improved with the additions of Dellucci and Nixon, while Barfield is a nice young player who will make a great 8-9 hitter. The Indians are a threat and their entire roster, up and down, is easily more talented than the White Sox roster is. To be quite honest...if they can put it all together, I expect them to run away with the division.

QUOTE(Jeff Liefer @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 01:34 PM) Koch was such a pile of crap. If dead arm is a true ailment, then he was living proof. His first year with the Sox, he lost velocity; the second, he lost command. He was most definitely in the 92-95 range that first year with the Sox, and he just kept getting taken deep, constantly. His second year with the Sox, he regained his velocity, and was back in the 94-97 range, but it was straight as an arrow and uncontrollable. He got traded for Wilson Valdez, and he's pretty much been non-existant since that point. That's what I recall of Koch anyways. And pile of crap is so harsh - Koch worked his ass off, and always took blame for his actions. I believe at one point he blew a save and he said he "Billy Koch'd the game" (or something to that extent). Those 97 innings he threw in 2002 with the A's just killed his arm, and took any magic Koch had left with him. I think you can safely say he sucked, but pile of crap? Eh, not to me he wasn't.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 06:30 AM) I don't know, it's a 50-50 scenario for either Taveras / Anderson or Pods getting moved in that scenario. You have to remember that Pods's value is down, but the Sox still have faith in him. They could probably get more for Taveras or Anderson on the trade market, and get some of that young pitching that KW craves. I just don't think it's justifiable to trade Taveras or Anderson when a clearly inferior player is sitting on the bench making more money than both of them. And you won't get nearly as good of a prospect for Podsednik as you would for Taveras or Anderson, but you will get a solid prospect - perhaps a B or C type prospect. And with Buccholz and Hirsh coming in - replacing the current Danks and Massett package pretty well - the pitching is still pretty much set, so you can just trade Pods for anything KW sees fit, be it a MIF prospect, a C prospect, a project bullpen/starting arm, or just best value. There's all kinds of time to make the deal, so you just wait for the best package to arrive. As is, it's a completely moot point.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 01:23 AM) Hunter Pence was the deal breaker in that scenario. But if I got offered Pence and Hirsh for Garland alone, that's still an extremely hard deal to turn down. Unfortunately, Pupura decided to go and overpay for Jason Jennings instead. But imagine getting those 4 players in that deal. Pence takes over for Dye in 2008, Hirsh steps into the rotation for 6 seasons, either Anderson or Taveras gets traded to a team like Florida for some of their young pitching, and Buckholz gives you more options for the rotation or pen. No way, Podsednik gets traded in a second, and you hope that Anderson or Taveras can make the transition from a hard OF position to an easier one.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 12:33 AM) You know what? If I ever write a childrens' book, I think the title will be Iguana's Stubborn Erection. Yeah. I bet parents would just scoop that right up for their kids. If you don't like to play nice, we'll just chop it off.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 12:41 AM) I thought some of you guys would enjoy it. Not hard to figure out the package either. Jon Garland For Taylor Buchholz Jason Hirsh Willy Taveras Hunter Pence I would have driven Jon to Houston if the 'Stros did that deal. Kenny was really holding out for a monster package. Maybe it's just me, but you could take out any of those players - except Hirsh I 'spose - and I make that deal in a second.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 11:39 PM) That would mean that Garland would (most likely) be gone after 2008. If we were forced to keep just one of the two, I'd keep Garland. Why? I think he'd get less money on the open market, and while he might not ever dominate the way Buehrle did, I think he's as good a bet as anyone to stay healthy and average-ish over the life of a five year contract. I'd agree with the reasoning behind it, and I'm not going to argue for my reasoning, because I think it's pretty clear for the reasoning behind keeping either of them long-term. You'd have to figure Garland is going to be more consistent over the life of the contract he receives than Buehrle will be, but I'll take the upside and sidedness of where Buehrle throws from over the consistency and (better) durability of Garland. It's all a matter of opinion, really. (I still wouldn't rule out resigning both, but I'll put the odds at not-good)

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 11:05 PM) What's some middle ground here with Buehrle? What is he going to ask for compared to what we're going to offer him, and is that gap too large to find a middle ground? We have supposedly offered according to Levine a 3 year $31M deal last off-season. Mark has come out and said he doesn't want Zito money, and he'll take a hometown discount, but not a big one at that (and why should he considering what he could really be paid if he has a good season). So I'm talking years, dollars, and options here. The White Sox obviously have shown they only like to have pitchers locked up to 3 year deals recently. Mark is probably going to want a 5-6 year deal. Could both sides agree to a 4 year deal, with a mutual option for a 5th maybe? Could the Sox make that 4th season an option as well, or would Mark only agree to having the final year of the deal with an option? And how about with the salary. $10M a season obviously ain't going to cut it. Mark could probably get $18M per easily in FA I'm thinking, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. So could the Sox go with a 4 year $60M deal (and they could make the salary ascend or descend depending on where they see the payroll going) with a mutual option at about 16M for the 5th season? Is something like that doable for both sides here? I think it's close, but he's going to want atleast 5 with an option for the 6th, perhaps either a player option or a vesting team option with like 1000 innings or something very achievable. Say 5/$75 with an $18 mill option for the last year.