witesoxfan

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) If 10 games is really limited, why fret about keeping him in Charlotte 27 more games? You never know, Beckham may get hot and someone may give up at least something for him. And again, you made my point. He WAS hot. He really isn't right now. Call him up when he's on a roll. But in his previous 6, he's hitting .333 with a .370 OBP, so he is on a roll. Do you see how silly that is? The guy has hit well recently and I think it would be worthwhile to see him for the next two months. Either way, I just don't see any team giving up anything for Beckham, even if he gets hot. I also don't see the Sox DFA'ing Beckham or calling up Semien. It's just what I think they should do, but, again, I don't see it happening.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 07:48 AM) In his last 10 games in a league Jordan Danks rakes, he's hitting under .220 with an OBP under .320. Why call him up when he's going bad? Wait until he's on a bit of a role. It's sort of a pet peeve of mine. A couple of years ago, the Sox needed a bat and Viciedo was on fire in Charlotte. They eventually called him up when he was struggling. Facing better pitchers usually doesn't turn that around. Call him up when he's hot, maybe he stays on a roll and gains some confidence. If he doesn't get hot, call him up in September. Marcus Semien staying in Charlotte the next 27 games isn't going to hurt his development. People complain the Sox rush prospects, yet anyone that looks decent in Charlotte needs to replace someone in Chicago all the time. Semien was already rushed. That also shows how limited a sample size 10 games is, and on top of it, he's been hitting for power too. You didn't mention that he's got a .486 slugging percentage thanks to two doubles, a triple, and two homers. And in July, he's hitting .290/.384/.570/.954. He's hitting the ball really well right now. If you have to wait for a 10 game sample of when a guy is hitting well as opposed to just calling guys up when they're ready, you may miss it. I don't think the Sox will do it, but I'd really like them to get Semien every day playing time right now. Frankly, I'm wondering if the Sox aren't keeping him in AAA to retain trade value.

CF - Lofton LF - Bonds 1B - Abreu RF - Ruth 2B - Hornsby SS - Smith 3B - Schmidt C - Bench DH - Dunn

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 11:08 PM) That'll have gone back a good bit now, today's start pushed his FIP 21 points worse. He now has a 4.84 FIP in 136 IP. Jeremy Guthrie is the only other starter with a 4.84 FIP, in 132 IP and his WAR is .3. God, I hate to say this, but...so? You can't get completely wrapped up in numbers. He was facing a good offensive team with trade rumors on the mind and he was less than precise. He's still human. You expect him to be an average pitcher going forward. That's a 2 WAR starter. It's less than his $/WAR value, but that's why you keep him. The Sox marginal value for a starter right now is extreme. John Danks offers some hope for good productivity with the floor of an average starter. I haven't checked yet, but I bet the bWAR (or RA9-WAR) is fairly decent. Danks, while not Buehrle, is still a good fielding pitcher with a good pick off move. Those types tend to outpitch peripherals.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 10:00 PM) I don't disagree, but I think Semiem may be better served finishing the year off at AAA and starting anew at the MLB level in 2015. He didn't exactly prosper in April or May, other than a few timely hits. Let Beckham finish the year, and give Semien the job next year. My thing is this: if this is in fact a rebuilding year, which, for all intents and purposes, it is, then you want guys who will be contributing in the future working towards that right now. Gordon Beckham is not. Marcus Semien is (or Carlos Sanchez or Micah Johnson. I personally like Semien, but I'm not in the front office nor do I have the scouting capabilities to know how well any of them will do in the majors). My qualm is that the Sox believe there is still something there with Beckham - it's hard for me to say that the talent isn't there, but we havent seen it. And then, how is 2 months going to change 4 and a half years of ineptitude? Why not just move on and see if we have something in the next guy? I personally think Semien is that next guy, but given the way the organization has handled Semien, they obviously feel he can be [hopefully] an ultra sub, where he plays every day but maybe in a different position. I don't know. I'm drunk and like my Semien and don't like Beckham and don't see much incentive in keeping him around, and I'm not alone, but I don't make decisions.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 07:21 PM) As a professional baseball organization, there is no good reason for them to give away players that they are still paying. If we had superior replacements available, that would be one thing. We don't. In the case of Beckham, I do not believe this to be true. I won't argue it, but I believe Semien is a superior option at this point.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 04:46 PM) This sums it up. If Dunn, ADA and Beckham cannot be traded then just flat out release them and move on. I think Sox fans have to finally realize the lack of value in the players they wanted traded. I still think the Sox pick up a little of Dunn's salary and get a live arm. I could also legitimately seeing them re-sign him too (or attempting to) and keeping him in this platoon situation. De Aza and Beckham, yeah, they're not much more than bench fodder at this point.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 04:22 PM) Of course the Sox got L Garcia, so they must have done b. And doesn't b. require that the player going the other way also clear waivers? If said player is on the 40-man. If he's not, then nothing needs to be worked out.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 04:08 PM) Danks will cost the Sox roughtly 28.5 million for the next 2 years. If they could have gotten rid of the contract for that $8-$10 million and gotten some value in return, yes they should have taken it. At this point, given that the deadline has passed, I hope they still move him to relieve $20 million of salary over 2 years and to heck with the value in return. That money can be better spent elsewhere. The Sox can live with Noesi as 5th starter. Noesi is currently the 4th starter. That's your problem. You give Danks away and Noesi is now your #3 starter, and suddenly any small chance you have at competing this year (it's still like 4%, but they're a 14-6 run away from being in the thick of things, but I'm not counting on that) evaporates as you're going with Rienzo, Paulino, Wang, or someone of the like as a fallback option. Beyond that, if you free up that money for Danks, you still have to replace him in the rotation. That is either via trade (giving up pieces plus taking on salary), free agency (anybody you sign is gong to be inferior or more expensive than Danks), or waiver wire and minor league free agents (who are not good). Danks is approximately a 2 WAR pitcher. Who are you going to realistically acquire as a 2 WAR pitcher for $20 million over 2 years?

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) Could definitely see a team claiming Dunn then not trying to work out a deal in an attempt to just try to take him and his salary on without giving up any players. If I am an NL team that needed another bat on the bench, I'd probably do it. So then you're paying a guy $5 million to make what would amount to 60-80 plate appearances (on the optimistic side). There's no way an NL team does that.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:56 PM) I bet that means that they werent trying to do anything. Results=effort right? They didn't need to move him. If they weren't getting the right value - and they weren't asking for a lot (I wasn't in there and I know that, I can read between the lines) - there's no need to move him. This is exactly what Eminor has mentioned on a few different occasions. The value Danks represents is less than his contract, so the Sox would have to pick up money just to move him. He's not worthless though, as he's a viable option at the back end of the rotation. Still, no team is going to give up a very good piece for Danks. Thus, you're basically asking yourself: is it better to keep John Danks at $14 million for the next 2 years and have him act as a back of the rotation starter, eating innings for the Sox, or include $8-10 million (thus only saying somewhere around $22-24 million), needing to bring in another back of the rotation starter, and getting little to no value for John Danks? The answer to the question is that Danks is worth much more to the White Sox and it's better to keep him at $14 mill.

Jeez, have a day Moises. Might have found a nice little bench piece in him, and he's really seemed to fit well into the clubhouse.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:47 PM) The Robin Ventura Effect... No, I think this is a lack of talent effect. They have had 4 pretty substantial holes in the starting lineup virtually all season. The team is fighting as hard as they can, but they simply don't have the talent to compete with the big boys over the course of a season. But there is a sense in the clubhouse that they are close and that there is talent.

Nice. It should also be mentioned that any players not on a 40-man roster are NOT subject to waiver rules. They can be traded at any point of the season.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) They would be if the hadn't traded Addison Reed. Trolls gonna troll

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:41 PM) Where was this logic then when the Tigers convinced Texas to take Prince and give them Kinsler? That was an absolute heist by Dombrowski. One of the most lopsided trades in years, even with the Tigers eating however much money they ate.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:29 PM) They can't go on a run. I think their longest winning streak is 4. This team feels really close. I advocated them trading Alexei, but I don't mind if they keep him. There are a few glaring holes still - LF, RF, 2B, C, and then DH after the season, plus they could use another starter and some more bullpen help - but it seems that they'll be competitive for the rest of this year and into next year with the possibility of being really good in 2016. Knock on wood, of course.

This team is so weird. It seems like whenever I'm watching or paying attention, they are putting together a nice run or a win streak and they're in every game, yet they're 3 games below .500. Again, it's weird, but this team feels like it should be 5-7 games over .500 right now instead.

Just to continue with the fat chick analogy, she doesn't usually get picked up until there's an hour left before bar close. If we assume that it's a normal bar closing at 2 AM, the clock just struck midnight. There's still time to move a lot of these guys.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:09 PM) There are surely minor league players involved in this. Murmurs that Taijuan Walker going to TB If the M's gave up Walker and Franklin for Austin Jackson, Jack Z should be fired on the spot. #JumpToConclusionMat

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 12:13 PM) The purchasing team gets one less start out of him. That = lower value. I could sort of tell this last night when Rienzo, the presumptive starter, pitched (not that he couldn't have pitched a couple of innings today). This isn't David Price we're talking about. It's John Danks. You aren't getting a hell of a lot for him any ways and it's not as if the Sox have no use for him. I mean, really, if they trade Danks, who is replacing him in the rotation? Andre Rienzo? That's real exciting.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) Sox paid off a bunch of actorsa to sit next to the Yankees scouts & pose as scouts from other organizations. The idea here is to create the impression of interest. The actors will say things like "you know I really don't think this guy is overpaid at all" and "you know they say he lost velocity but I sure don't see it." "You know, John Danks really does look like a man who gives a good hug."

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 12:09 PM) They didn't scratch him, so they gave up 3 hours before the deadline. They can still trade John Danks. They haven't given up anything. If they scratch him, they indicate that they want to trade him no matter what. They aren't getting the price they want, they believe they can get more out of him from the Yankees (or Marlins), and they do not have to trade him. If the Yankees want to play ball, then they can play ball and the Sox will pull him from the game.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) That's not the point. If you have a track record of doing something over 1000 PA, sucking in 250 PA doesn't mean you're now terrible. Especially when Craig's only 30. He's not 35. Viciedo's never had sustained success at the big league level. His best season featured a 99 wRC+. That's the definition of mediocre at best. How much of it is fluke and how much of it is talent change? Craig has dealt with a lot of injuries over the years. His numbers are down this year, but his K rate is up, he's walking slightly less, his overall power is down, his line drive and fly balls rates are down, and thus, his ground ball rate is up. Maybe he bounces back, but the thing is, he's actually swinging at good pitches - he's swinging at fewer pitches out of the zone and more pitches in the zone (and making appropriate contact for both). Perhaps there's a hole in his swing opposing pitchers have exploited and Craig just has to make the adjustment, but I wouldn't be too confident about him long term.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) And Viciedo was a 25/75 hitter. Viciedo's also 25, while Craig is 30. Overall, they should really have similar value.