witesoxfan

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 24, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) They are still in it at 25-25. Of course, last year, they were 24-24 at this point and we know how far south that went. And you still know how ridiculous that argument is so you should probably stop making it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 27, 2014 -> 06:56 PM) It wasn't a gamble, he was the team's 4th starter. It was a gamble. Suggesting it was anything else is ludicrous. Maybe they should have signed Ubaldo.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2014 -> 05:33 PM) FWIW, we can legitimately make the argument the Sox would be .500 or 2 games over with Reed, but they're not truly contending unless the wheels completely fall off the DET pitching staff. Then make it. --- You can't because it's an absolutely ridiculous argument. QUOTE (greg775 @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:40 PM) What did Reed do to you to say he'd be the fifth best righty reliever on the team? That's just crazy talk. Our bullpen is horrendous and Reed was a good to adequate closer. I'd give Reed a solid B as our closer. This year's closers deserve a big fat D. He did nothing to me other than pitch like a middle reliever. I like/liked Reed. I honestly think, given his repertoire, he'd be better served in the rotation instead of the bullpen. The Sox bullpen has not been horrendous - have you watched games or seen the numbers the bullpen has put up, or are you still basing this off the first two weeks of the year? Greg, I'm pretty sure that if Adam Dunn puts up .275/.400/.500 next year for Texas or Houston or someone, you'd say that you gave him a B for his time with the Sox and whoever is currently playing for the White Sox would get a D.

I saw they won 2-1 and was hoping they went to Belisario. Yeah, just 1-2-3.

With the obvious caveat of Balta saying he's obviously working on other pitches, Beck has been a disappointment this year for me. If I think of others, I'll post them later too. Also, if you see others from me, please feel free to post them in here. I have no problem being called out! (and I will fight back )

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 27, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) In hou it did but s*** I forgot he went to Philly and was great and then pretty good. He tanked in 2006 and then fell out of the closer's role in 2007 but was overall still fairly good. He was damn near perfect in 2008, absolutely terrible in 2009, and then fairly good in 2010 and 2011 before seeing his career finally come apart.

In 2008, Brad Lidge put up an ERA of 1.95, FIP of 2.41, xFIP of 3.01, K/9 of 11.94, and went 41 for 41 in saves as the Philadelphia Phillies won the World Series. No, it did not end Lidge's career.

I couldn't have been more wrong on Paulino, but yes, it's time they move him to the bullpen to try and recoup some value for him. If not, not a big loss overall.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:45 AM) [ He would be on this team. Quit being ridiculous. No he would not. Not even close. Lindstrom was the closer to start, guess what, Lindstrom was on the team last year when Reed was closing. You're probably right, he would have been the closer, but not deservedly so. He would not be the best reliever in the Sox bullpen right now. Either way, even if he's not a "middle" reliever, a reliever is a reliever, and Addison Reed isn't particularly special.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:40 AM) You are joking, right? I assume you are a Nate Jones lover. Nate is not very good IMO. I disagree with your opinion, but Jones has been hurt this year anyways, so I'm not sure why you mentioned him. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Addison Reed wasn't and isn't a middle reliever. He would be on this team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:30 AM) But the point was I didn't think the 2nd round pick was as valuable as a lot of people and pointed out the draft was said to be HS heavy, so they player wouldn't contribute for 5 or 6 years making the pick less valuable, which you argued with. Now you say they will have a good idea within that timeframe. Great. We should have a good idea of Matt Davidson. What is he going to be? And when? You try to have it both ways. If you are going to say something, and it is wrong, don't just start calling me names and try to change the subject. Own up to it. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that Davidson is going to be a starter at 3B, but right now, the Sox have a pretty good 3B. It's not as if Davidson has to play for the White Sox to provide value to them. Still, they felt strongly that about his bat and his upside so they traded a middle reliever for him. I will never have any problem with them doing that, which is why, as disappointing as Nestor Molina was and has been, I had no problem with that trade either.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) Then why did you use your argument against me when I said if a HS player was picked in the second round in 2014, he probably wouldn't contribute to winning until 2019 or 2020? He could certainly be traded in 2018, he could certainly be up in 2018, or he might not be contributing until then but if he's good enough, he'll likely be on the 40 man and we'll have a pretty good idea as fans if he is going to be a significant contributor. Many of us lauded the Nevin Griffith pick and signing in the 2nd, and he completely flopped. We had a pretty good idea that was going to happen too based on numbers and scouting reports within 4 years of drafting him. However, it's hard to know exactly what will happen 5 years from now. If you can tell me exactly, I would appreciate it. I'll write you up a TPS Report and you can let me know what more we can do at that point. EDIT: Either way, I see nothing that this has to do with my original point. Please try and get back on topic.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:37 AM) September call ups on a team out of contention isn't contributing to winning. Sorry to call you out on your foolishness. I hope Davidson is a stud, but he strikes out way to much against inferior pitching. I have been told by the saber guys Viciedo swung at too many bad pitches and couldn't improve. Either Davidson is swinging at too many bad pitches or he is swinging at good pitches and cannot make contact. Personally, I hope he is swinging at bad pitches, because I believe that is correctable. Not being able to hit AAA strikes doesn't bode well for his future. It is funny when you get called out for your foolishness, and no , it wasn't taken out of context. Your defense is someone is trolling. How was it taken out of context? Did you not say what I claimed you said? I merely said you will likely have an idea after 4 years about whether or not someone will be contributing. Matt Davidson did within 4 years (and he was actualy up from August 11th on, so there goes your September call-up theory). If Hawkins is in AA/AAA in the next year or two, we'll have a pretty good idea with him too. That's entirely beside my point, which is the trolling aspect of it, bringing in previous arguments to fit round pegs into square holes. Either way, I'm not wrong on that - if you don't have a pretty good idea about whether a guy is going to be on the MLB roster or have a shot at contributing value to the MLB team either directly or indirectly by the time he has to be added to the 40-man, then odds are pretty good he's not going to contribute. That argument isn't flawed whatsoever, is perfectly reasonable, and is not on topic anyways. You have done a perfect job of fitting the exact definition of the White Sox fan I'm describing though. Thank you for that.

QUOTE (oldsox @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) I never saw any evidence that the Sox were shopping Reed prior to the Davidson deal. Fact is, AZ played Davidson extensively the end of 2013 season; from what I heard, they cooled on him, shopped him, and the rest is history. Addison Reed would be the 4th or 5th best right handed reliever in the Sox pen this year. Do you think that there was perhaps a reason they were shopping him?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:27 AM) Yes. You specifically told me a few months ago, guys not contributing at the major league level 4 years after being drafted are afterthoughts. Matt Davidson was drafted 5 years ago. And I know, he was drafted from HS, but I specifically mentioned the Sox second round pick would probably be a HS player, and probably would be at least 5 or 6 years away from contributing to winning. In fact, when I replied you really expect Courtney Hawkins to be contributing in 2 and a half years to the White Sox, you said yes. Except that Matt Davidson DID contribute at the MLB level, so even with my misguided and out of context quote, you're still wrong, and either way, it has nothign to do with this argument, yet somehow in your trolling ways, you've attempted to direct the argument to this point. I'm done with it on this point: White Sox fans wanted Rick Hahn and upper management to go out and get high upside talent. They did that by trading Addison Reed for Matt Davidson. White Sox fans are upset. Rick Hahn is in a no-win proposition because he can't make White Sox fans happy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) By your own definition, Matt Davidson is an afterthought. No

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) How much do you want to bet they don't/won't allow him to get over 50 errors at SS? When was the last time the White Sox did that with any prospect in the minors? Viciedo was equally raw and how much time did it take before they moved him off 3B? As long as they believe the defensive side won't have a negative impact on his offensive game...they'll be patient, but only to a point. Anderson's biggest potential value comes with his speed and bat...on the offensive side, just like Hawkins. Viciedo played 140 games at 3B in the minors, and I don't believe they moved him off because of errors (though he did make 30 as a 20 year old) but instead because he lacked the range and instincts they wanted to see out of him at 3B.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 27, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) Solid. It was coors, fireball and rumchata for me on Sunday. And getting kicked out of a pool area at night because old people are no fun. We were out camping so there was less damage for me to do to others. My friends were down Saturday morning, but I had to cater a graduation party Sunday morning so couldn't make it till then. Some good old beer darts and cornhole and jumping in a freezing cold river. I love Memorial Day.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 09:43 AM) Talent doesn't mean a whole lot if you can't take advantage of it. Talented players are better than untalented players.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 09:36 AM) Josh Fields was a top 100 prospect. So was Brent Morel. So was Joe Borchard. If you cannot make contact at the lower levels, you most likely will suck in the major leagues. Adam Dunn never struck out at those rates in the minors. Neither did Jim Thome or Reggie Jackson. 3 of the most prolific strike out machines at the major league level. Bo Jackson did, but I think we would all agree he is a little different from anyone in the Sox system. Defend Davidson all you want, he's still young, he will probably get to Chicago, but chances are he isn't going to be this talent you think. He cannot hit the ball often enough. Strikeouts have gone up over the past 5 to 10 years. Mike Trout has struck out at 21% rate in the majors and he's at 26% this year. I don't care about those numbers. I don't particularly like Davidson, FWIW, but anybody denying his talent is acting foolish.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 25, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Wite, what are we drinking today? It was Miller Lite and fireball and Chuck Norris's and Jag bombs and I danced to "I wouild do anything for love (But I won't do that)"

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 09:24 AM) Carlos Quentin was a top 20 prospect. Davidson nowhere near. The White Sox seem to blow off contact issues throughout the minors. Maybe they think it will improve. But so far, the guys they have touted in their system who had trouble making contact at each level, either never made it to the major leagues or made little or even negative impact. Striking out at these rates in the minor leagues for more than a season or sol IMO shows a lack of ability to make contact with professional-level pitching. When they get to the elite arms with more sophisticated scouting reports, to think it will get much better is a dream. Hopefully, it's some mechanical issue with Davidson. There just aren't a lot of players who have been big contributors that fanned as much as White Sox prospects fan at the minor league levels. Matt Davidson has been a BA top 100 prospect 4 years in a row and was in every major publication's top 100. Are denying that Matt Davidson is talented? Because then you're wrong. I don't care about anything else, I'm not making a big stand or anything else, but you are kind of proving my point here. Sox fans wanted Hahn to go out and get high upside talent. He did. It's not as if it's without risk. Yet here you are complaining about it because he's high upside, low contact kind of guy. Guess how many big-time power hitters in the majors feature those exact tools?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2014 -> 08:57 AM) The problem is the White Sox have had a long line of players with Davidson's "talents". Weak defensively, with a problem making contact. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes you get Carlos Quentin. Either way, it's hypocritical to lambast the Sox for not bringing in the high upside offensive players and to then criticize them when said players don't work out (again, for 2 months thus far, and Reed has not been that good either).

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 26, 2014 -> 06:57 PM) No, stat of the day is that Reed has 14 saves and 2 BS. Your assorted group has 9 saves and 6 BS. A closer's main job is to save the game not blow the save. Your assorted group makes $11 Mil and Reed makes $538,000 It's amazing that people make this kind of argument. He's got an ERA over 4 and doesn't throw any ground balls whatsoever. His K/9, BB/9, and K/BB are nice and indicate that he's gotten a little unlucky, but if you're throwing only 29% ground balls, you're going to give up the long ball especially when you're only topping out at 93. Meanwhile, people have asked Sox management for years to trade for players with Davidson's talent for years, and when he comes out and has a rough first two months, people immediately want him lynched. Hypocrisy, thy name is White Sox fans.

QUOTE (gatnom @ May 23, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) For me, I'm more confident in Michalczewski's ability to cut sown on strike outs than I am of Hawkins being able to fix his swing/eye enough to succeed at a higher level. To be fair, part of this is probably due to the fact that it seems like we've done this song and dance before with [insert toolsy outfielder that has completely bombed in our system here], but I'm still not entirely convinced that Hawkins can translate to a higher level from what some reports have said. I just don't understand though - what is it about Trey that makes you think he can and Hawkins can't? In 405 career plate appearances, Michalczewski's at a career 25.7% K rate. Hawkins was awful last year, but even with a 37.2% K rate for the year last year, his career percentage is down 6 points from that, so his contact has been worse overall but not as much as people think. Meanwhile, he's shown incredible power on top of it. I like Trey, but he's not doing anything special right now.