witesoxfan

There may be a word to describe pitchers like Buehrle. That word is not "ace."

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 31, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) One thing that is great about Q's development is that he seems to have created a fairly wide strikezone for himself. He'll work up and down, in and out. He's a control pitcher who can hit the corners and get the borderline calls, which is going to naturally prompt a hitter to chase more often. And the fact that he'll pitch inside, that's really where he's going to continue to become more dangerous. When hitters get looking away & he keeps going back out there his fastball doesn't play that well, but he can routinely blow guys away on the outside part of the plate with it by mixing things up and going in with fastball. Someone posted a video of Pedro in another thread, and while Q is not Pedro, it is amazing to watch a pitcher than can front door a slider and then go away with the fastball, or go in with the heat and back door the slider. Q isn't nasty like Pedro but he's got better stuff than Brad Radke & Radke was someone who used the whole zone to his benefit. If Q is a better Radke then that's a pretty good pitcher. And Q is someone that can really shut you do in sequence, which really is a tough thing to do in reality even if it's easy to do in a video game. Most guys can't go in and out at the same time without leaving something right over the middle of the plate. Q doesn't do that much & when he does miss he's usually missing off the plate rather than over it. I expect him to just get better. I'm in the boat with those who think we need more pitching, not less. But if you get something stupid thrown at you then that's different, but it has to be much more than a fair deal for sure. It's unlikely that would happen. I can't believe it took me this long to see this. Brad Radke had incredible "stuff." People get thrown off by the 89-92 (or by the end, 83-86), but his changeup was phenomenal, probably the best in the league. Quintana cannot say that.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 1, 2014 -> 11:23 PM) Got some good pics of Sale in pregame warmup Edit: damn phone If he didnt make pitching look easy enough, he he does it standing sideways.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ May 30, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) While I'd prefer Aiken, I'm okay with Kolek too. I think some around here are a bit too down on him. If the Sox think highly of him I'm sure they've done there due diligence and don't think he's at immediate risk of blowing his elbow out, or are confident in being able to smooth out anything that concerns them. It also sounds like they might be able to garner a bit of financial flexibility with the pick as well. I think regardless of the name, I'm ok with who they pick because of the due diligence. I'm not married to any one of these names and it seems there's a 99.9% chance they're taking a pitcher, so there's always going to be a chance it blows up in their face either by not meeting expectations or merely getting hurt.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 11:47 AM) I was trying to point out the sample size was way too small to come to any conclusion. And with Noesi are you using IP as a % or batters faced? For clarification purposes, I merely used the IP sample size for the White Sox versus his total IP sample size, but it's going to be a similarly small number either way. I agree that the sample size is too small to draw any conclusions either way and anything else is primarily conjecture and speculation (which are not bad things but are not definitive).

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ May 30, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) And we turned that into the second greatest hitter of all-time 1. Timo Perez 2. Conor Gillaspie 3. Willie Bloomquist 4. who cares

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 10:26 AM) Yeah that's trolling. I'm pointing out 2 games makes a big difference. With the other argument, we were talking ERA this year but apparently didn't want to count the ERA he accumulated with his first 2 teams this year. But keep up the fine work. That's 7 plate appearances against RHP you are accounting for, which is 6.8% of his plate appearances total against RHP. So, here's Hector Noesi: Against all teams other than the Chicago White Sox 40.2 IP, 4.46 ERA, 1.33 WHIP Against all teams including the Chicago White Sox 41.2 IP, 5.83 ERA, 1.51 WHIP That's 2.4% of his playing time this year. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, but if you're going to cherry pick, so can everybody else.

QUOTE (Tmar @ May 30, 2014 -> 10:30 AM) 2,088 You have made like 3 posts in this forum.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 30, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Finally. Now to the important question: Would you have rather signed Felipe Paulino or Ervin Santana? Trick question. Obviously, the answer is Matt Garza.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 09:21 AM) That is the price of pitching these days and Jimenez I believed and still do, would be the Sox 3rd best starter. That is my argument, and always has been. You don't agree. Time will eventually tell us who was correct. I really hope I am wrong and they wind up better off in the rotation. Then let's end it there.

My response to this OP is like my response to seeing a closet full of spiders - NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) I didn't ask you why you prefer. I asked why you wouldn't be concerned about blowing $2 million which is what it amounts to, unless they want to bring him back next season and blow some more. Because $2 million with the risk/reward measured out as good starting pitcher and/or potential trade bait versus 2.5% of the payroll, as a fan, is worth it to me. Why is a $50 million contract over 4 years while also giving up a draft pick for a 30 year old mediocre starting pitcher worth it for you? Seems like a very counter productive thing for a rebuilding/retooling thing to do. (Obviously, the rational Rick Hahn agreed with me, which is why it's even MORE ridiculous that you're still arguing this point, but whatever)

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 08:48 AM) Then why weren't you concerned about the $2 million they would be blowing on Paulino? Isn't that money that could have been spent elsewhere BUDDY? Gregor Polanco was signed for $175k. There is plenty of money, and not a lot of future committments. To the first portion, it's $1.75 million towards the payroll this year and a $250K buyout. That is not expensive in terms of MLB payroll whatsoever, and with a guy that averages 94 with the fastball, I have no problem with that price. I posted the link to the initial signing and no one had any problem with it then either. If you're asking me why I prefer a $2 million committment over a $50 million commitment PLUS giving up a draft pick, then figure that one out yourself.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 30, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) I don't know who "stuck up" for Adam Dunn. I'm as much of a fan of Dunn as anybody, and I freely admit he hasn't lived up to his contract. If anything, he's the poster child for why signing Jimenez would have been a bad idea. I do know that a lot of people "stuck up" for Dunn by saying that the Sox shouldn't just release him, because $15M/0.4 WAR is better than $15M/0.0 WAR, but that's just because the $15M was already spent. I made one statement saying the Sox would not be anywhere near where they are if it weren't for Adam Dunn. Nevermind that he's been awesome offensively, Dick Allen is going to die fighting for Ubaldo Jimenez's right to party.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 08:33 AM) Considering you were using ERA to rank relief pitchers of all things and never even mentioned salary when telling us Addison Reed was really a middle reliever, I am shocked now ERA doesn't mean anything. And why are so many people hung up on salary? Are you an heir to JR? You have often stuck up for Adam Dunn. He probably has about as bad of a salary/WAR as any player who has actually played the last 4 season. All I know is you did say this team would have nowhere near the record it has without Adam Dunn. Thus far in 2014 Jimenez salary $11,250,000 WAR 0.8 Dunn salary $15,000,000 WAR 0.4 I'm concerned about salary because it affects what my favorite baseball team can commit to players moving forward. Why WOULDN'T you be concerned about salary? Would you be just a-ok paying Albert Pujols $25 million a year right now? Either way, stay on topic. You believe that Ubaldo Jimenez, at $12.5 million per year on average, is a better investment than spending no money to try and find a 4th and 5th starter. That's the bet I'm making BUDDY. Also, Adam Dunn didn't cost a draft pick this year so take that rubber hose and shove it up your nose.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 30, 2014 -> 08:28 AM) If we really want to make it fair, it's the salary/WAR of Jimenez vs the salary/WAR of Noesi + the salary/WAR of the second round draft pick. or salary/WAR of Noesi + anybody else who starts for minimum salary at the back end of the rotation for the White Sox But yes, that point is also valid.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 08:22 AM) Why don't we make a wager. The loser has to say in his signature the other is the best poster on this site. I will say Jimenez's ERA at the end of the season will be lower than Noesi's, and we will only count Noesi's White Sox numbers. You make it salary/WAR, and you have a deal, since that's the entire point of anybody's argument anyway. You know what, even that's a silly agreement, since if Noesi bombs, the Sox can just DFA him, whereas if Jimenez bombs, the Orioles are stuck. Nope, you know what, forget you and Jimenez. I can't believe you're still this hung up on him.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 29, 2014 -> 06:44 PM) Don't worry cuz Wite will Fite for your Rite to Post s***e.... ...okay, no he won't. He loves to wield the ban hammer. All talk, no action. Wolf tickets, that's what they call 'em. I can't even suspend people you fool, I'm a goddamn moderator.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 30, 2014 -> 07:34 AM) If you eliminate posts about attendance or Ubaldo Jimenez that cuts out another 650K. What about Ozzie Guillen?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) You can't argue with 3 WAR. 3 WAR is a fact. As far as Paulino goes, he represents an opportunity lost. With the turnaround of this offense, it's too damn bad they didn't help the rotation out more. But the difference between what Rienzo and Noesi have done for the Sox and Jimenez the Orioles is not significant enough to justify the additional $12 mill they'd have to pay him plus the draft pick. The Sox have handled this situation about as perfectly as possible.

QUOTE (scs787 @ May 29, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) What I'm about to say is either really smart, or really dumb. For hunting, how about they set up shops that rent guns near the forest preserves where hunting is legal? Throw some tracking devices on the guns and track it to make sure the gun doesn't leave the preserve. If it leaves the area the cops are called. A lot (if not most) of hunting is done on private land. Farmers who are done with their crops let hunters they know (or don't) come on their land and get what they can, or they charge a nominal fee, or ask for a bird, or ask for meat, or whatever. That makes it quite a bit more difficult to rent guns, and it's not like the possibility for shootings are decreased based solely on that.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2014 -> 04:22 PM) You can't argue with 3 WAR. Except that was in the past. You could give Barry Bonds a $25 million contract based on what he did at the end of his career, but that wouldn't make it a good investment today. That's how FA has changed and why it took Jimenez so long to sign. Nobody wants to pay for past performance, but instead they want to pay for future output. If Jimenez had been 27 instead of 30, he would have signed within the first 2 weeks of free agency to a richer contract than he got, but when his perceived production is going to go down, then he's not going to be worth it to a lot of teams.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2014 -> 04:11 PM) Put Jimenez in this rotation and they can compete for a playoff spot. There just was no downside. How do you figure?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 29, 2014 -> 02:23 PM) So basically you're saying that you wouldn't trade our best prospects (those guys who have a shot at becoming difference makers) for short term glory? I agree with that, and I'm sure Hahn & Kenny would also agree with you. Saladino is a good mention. I'd trade him for just about anyone, prospect or vet, assuming the deal made sense for us. Alert the authorities: I'm pretty sure we're in complete agreement on something.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 29, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) The Saladino point is just a strawman; not really worth acknowledging tbh. I don't think it's counterproductive to trade assets for the long term future for this team. The offense is flukey, the bullpen sucks and the starting staff is hodge podge of good and awful. This current team has little to no upside. The Saladino is not a strawman. If Youkilis, Myers, or Liriano become available for non-essential pieces in the minors, and the team is competitive, why wouldn't you make that move? At the end of the day, I agree that I don't believe this team will remain competitive, but I'm not about to rule them out or start talking about trading guys yet. I have seen teams with 2 key pieces band pieces together and end up winning divisions and wild cards. The early 2000 Twins teams come to mind in that regard. Until that point comes, there's no point in even bothering trading pieces away.