witesoxfan

If he ends up getting traded, I think we can expect a similar package to what the Sox got for Peavy last year. One good prospect and 3 high ceiling sorts.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 28, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) We all need to remember that hindisght is 20/20. You have to evaluate these decisions based on the information we had when they were made. Like TUC can admit that Dunn has been good and still think it was the right idea to cut him. Like wite can admit Paulino blows and still think it was the right idea to sign him. QFT

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 28, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) Back in the .230s again BTW my whole issue was Dunn taking PA away from more deserving players. After Avi got hurt we actually needed someone. Funny how YOU and so many members of Soxtalk were down on ALL of Gillaspie, DeAza and Viciedo, and acted as though shortened playing time for them because of Dunn was just a nonfactor, who cares. Well guess what, I was right you were wrong, because Connor and Viciedo it turns out actually WERE worth the PA far, far more than Dunn. And had the Sox started the year with DeAza in a comfortable spot where he wasn't out there in a platoon role playing for his job maybe he'd be doing a lot better than the high .100s he's been in for a while here. So yeah, I was right the whole damn time and we only needed Dunn because Avi got hurt. If Avi doesn't get hurt then guess what genius, Viciedo is riding the pine and everyone at Soxtalk is willing to dump the guy for scraps, just like they feel toward DeAza right now. What a smart move that would be. It's funny how when posters clean house and whoop that ass by making strong arguments how sometimes the mods cower from the onslaught and claim trolling. But I sir am a champion and I refuse to be trolled so f*** yeah. Except that you're wrong. He's walking at the highest rate of his career, he's hitting for power, and he's been a stabilizing force in the middle of the lineup. You wanted to cut him and eat $15 mill. I always preferred to keep Gillaspie over Danks. I have always liked Viciedo, but had no problem with De Aza and Viciedo in a platoon role. Also, you may be a champion but the true ultimate champion is Bill Goldberg.

Also, at the end of the day, I still make the Addison Reed trade, WHICH WAS MY ENTIRE POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 28, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) Wite is also the same guy who figured we could just DFA Gillaspie at the tend of ST rather than play the guy, should we need the playing time for the veteran crap on the roster. Dick Allen is right more than wite is, and it troubles him deeply. How's Adam Dunn doing buddy?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) And here it is post 107. Listen to your own advise, and look up what you wrote. LMAO Also, believing that a guy with good stuff who was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time was going to be a good pitcher is not trolling. It's believing in something. I've already owned up to that. Good catch.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) You said fairly large period of time, and said he was "great" over this fairly large period of time. I, and most people here, if they were being honest, would say you are exhaggerating. Yep QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Paulino was also good between 2011 and 2012. Look it up yourself. Seriously, it takes about 2 seconds to make sure exactly what I said. I probably should have clarified and said "pretty good," but keep fighting the great good fight.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:30 AM) If 27 starts over 2 years is being a great pitcher over a long period of time, I think Jimenez and Santana have pretty much blown that away during their careers. We will see the numbers at the end of the season. One thing we know, Paulino isn't helping anyone win this year. The other 2 still have a chance and each have had several good starts. You are going to play your semantics card, but I did state extended, not "long." He was good enough that people on here liked him at $1.5 million. I surely liked that gamble at $1.5 mill and no compensation a hell of a lot more than I did $14.1 mill and a pick or $50 million and a pick. I also don't believe that we have seen the last of Paulino, but if he is done, they can just cut him and only owe him the remaining portion of his $1.5 mill. They could not do that with either Santana or Jimenez. It's not a big loss. EDIT: I also find it funny that you are still defending a would be signing of Jimenez or Santana at this juncture. It's truly outrageous. You have made my day. Thanks for that.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:22 AM) I always wonder, do they warm up? I could do some crazy things trying to throw a ball 60 feet with no warmup I doubt it. They have to be nervous as hell too, even with the popularity. It's still hilarious seeing that. Nothing has ever quite topped Mariah Carey

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) Santana, Jimenez, and Paulino have all ranged from mediocre to vomit-inducing. They were all gambles to be decent at varying odds, none of them anything like safe. Two of them cost tens of millions of dollars and draft picks, one was practically free. We gambled on the one that was free. The thing that's nice about him being free is that the Sox can cut ties with him and have practically no ramifications. They can also try him in the bullpen without feeling hamstrung by a contract. They made the right move.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) This is what I like seeing a lot. That was just so bad last year. Have to win within the division to do anything noteworthy. BTW, Conor against RHP .368 .415 .495 .910 LHP .310 .344 .379 .723 If Gillaspie proves merely capable against LHP, he can easily be a full time starter moving forward.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) Speaking of which, can you imagine how good Tanaka would look wedged between Sale and Quintana? Talk about a core to move forward with... Man, I'm still bummed he signed with the Yankees. To some extent, I am too, but talk about immediate buyer's remorse.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) The only place Paulino played where his ERA was below 5.83 was KC, and that was 162 innings and 27 starts over 2 years. How is that being a great pitcher over a fairly large period of time? That was also 2 surgeries ago, and his short stint in the minors last year look just like his performances this season. I still would take Jimenez as he has had a few good starts. And no one seems to mention Santana. I guess he is doing too well. (Although I preferred Jimenez myself, and noted it here) Just so we are clear, this: is not an extended period of time, but this: is worth $50 million over 4 years and a 2nd round pick. Got it, thank you!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) Ubaldo is doing a lot better than Felipe Paulino. And Salty is fading fast. Oh to have him for double what anyone else would pay him. So reliever ERA means a lot and FIP means a lot. xFIP, a number you pointed out to show us how great Paulino would be I guess doesn't matter. And Paulino was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time? LMAO, you have officially lost your mind. Ubaldo also costs 33.3x what Paulino cost PLUS a 2nd round pick. No big deal. Salty's faded, but he'd have been a hell of a lot more valuable at $40 million and no 2nd round pick than Ubaldo right now. Paulino was also good between 2011 and 2012. Look it up yourself. I also have no problem with xFIP, but showed that he has two peripherals that are working against each other - his K/BB is in his favor while a 29% GB rate is an absolutely terrible thing, especially with non-overpowering stuff. One of those is going to give eventually, and if it's his K/BB, his xFIP is going to rise very quickly and he's going to start giving up a lot of runs.

QUOTE (oldsox @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:33 AM) I must be getting really old. I actually agree with you. Of course it was a gamble. Sox offered up a couple of mill or whatever for a guy who was absolutely horrid in Colorado 3 years ago. I witnessed that mess. It took a while, but the Rockettes finally DFA'd him and ate his contract. More recently, he was lousy in the minors in 2013, so naturally Sox gave him his comeback opportunity for 2014. Bad gamble. Right up there with Mitch Boggs. Pete and rePete. I like what you said about Ubaldo. That would have been a more interesting gamble. The other two never had a chance. I was being sarcastic about Ubaldo, but when the team is rebuilding or retooling, they need to take chances on stuff guys. You do that and you occasionally end up with Rick White or Mike Jackson, or you sometimes get a Cliff Politte or Tom Gordon or JJ Putz or Esteban Loaiza. In the end, if you lose it, you lose it and you move on.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:34 AM) And the ridiculous argument here is Addison Reed is a middle reliever. which he pointed out yesterday. , and Addison Reed would be the 5th best pitcher in the White Sox bullpen. Take a stance for once in your life instead of arguing to argue. You might feel better about yourself.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:30 AM) Um, so who ARE the possible suitors for Gordon Beckham? Vivica Fox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) His xFIP seems pretty good. He is 14 out of 16 in saves. Please provide the numbers. And please, it is not trolling. What is trolling is the guy suggesting Felipe Paulino may pitch 180 innings for the White Sox this year based on 7 starts in 2012 calling several posters "arguments" ridiculous this morning. Petricka, Putnam, and Webb all have ERAs lower than him (on the active roster). That puts him 4th best. Belisario, Putnam, Downs, Petricka, and Webb all have lower FIPs than him. That puts him 6th best. Putnam, Belisario, and Petricka all have WHIPs lower than him. That puts him 4th best. His xFIP is nice, but it's aided by a high K rate and low BB rate. He has an incredibly low GB rate right now and, while his HR/FB is high right now, he's had problems with homers in the past. Something's going to give. Also, believing that a guy with good stuff who was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time was going to be a good pitcher is not trolling. It's believing in something. I've already owned up to that. BTW, how's Ubaldo doing? You wanted to give him $50 million. That would have looked a lot better going to Saltalamacchia, wouldn't it? And I "only" wanted him for $40 million. That would have been a hell of a lot better than anything you would have committed the money to which, as I recall, was basically anything Marty wanted. /drops mic

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:14 AM) The problem is there's no Tanaka the next off-season. Most of the available pitching moves are "win now" mode, especially if we select Kolek or Aiken. The Cubs are learning the same lesson...just because they'll have money to spend doesn't mean they can find the right player to spend it on. Did you know Tanaka or Abreu were going to be free agents in May last year?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:42 AM) Detroit has a flawed bullpen (Nathan isn't what he once was, and how much can you trust Joba Chamberlain or Al-Al?), and they've become a bit complacent with nobody to challenge them within the division the last couple of seasons (KC is unproven and on the ropes offensively and now are dealing with Ventura's ailment, Cleveland seems more like a "one year wonder" at the moment). Porcello and Victor Martinez have never been THIS good with the Tigers, especially Porcello. One of their other starters is an inexperienced rookie in Ray. This is Smyly's first full year in the rotation, and he'll wear down eventually from pitching in relief the last two seasons. Verlander has gotten absolutely pounded his last three starts. Scherzer has been merely human. Scherzer lasted six innings, allowing five runs on eight hits. He walked two and struck out four. Scherzer, who was saved from his second loss when Hunter hit a solo home run in the seventh to tie the game, has allowed 12 runs on 20 hits over his past two games, a span of 13 innings. The reigning American League Cy Young Award winner allowed 12 runs combined through his first nine starts (59 innings) LAST FOUR=25 IP, 28 H, 15 ER, 12 BB, 22 K's, 1.6 WHIP, 5.40 ERA Rajai Davis has been overachieving, too. They're getting little to nothing out of SS offensively with Romine and Worth. If they wouldn't have been able to pull off the Kinsler for Fielder trade, they would be in a world of hurt, IMO. Plus, you have the Evan Reed situation. So yeah, they're still the favorites...but not by as much as one would have assumed a week ago when they were 27-13 and running away with things. I just read this tl;dr post and have no idea how you pulled this out of your hat to argue that the Sox would be 2 games over .500 with Reed as the closer. This post is like someone using the argument that "over easy eggs have a runny yolk" when asking why a medium rare steak is the perfect temperature.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 27, 2014 -> 05:24 PM) Well you and I were two of the biggest supporters of Marcus being the starter at 2b all season. Granted I do think he'd be fine as the season went on if he were getting regular ab's but so far Gordon has been better. Yeah, I'm not ready to "mea culpa" on Semien yet. He needs to be playing every day though. I still think he could be a really good starter at some point down the road. I just hope it's not with the Rays or Pirates.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:53 AM) Except that's not exactly the whole story. It's not like we traded Alex Rios in order to sign Jose Abreu. We needed to get younger and more cost-controlled. It's like saying we traded Rios to bring back Lindstrom and pay for Downs, Paulino and Keppinger. You can twist it around any way you would like, right? Now if we spent $150-175 on Tanaka, then you could have me convinced that trading Rios was absolutely imperative to make it work. We also shed Santos, Peavy's deal, AJ's deal, Konerko's deal, let Buehrle go, Crain and Floyd, etc. So shedding $26 million in salary and signing a 27 year old power hitting 1B to a 6 year contract at a lesser AAV is...?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:46 AM) With only two pitches? By that argument, Petricka should be re-converted into a starter again. Or Webb. He has 3. Fastball, slider, change. He doesn't use the changeup as much, but he should feature it more. Probably something Arizona is doing with him. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) Addison Reed put up a 1.7 WAR last year. Seems like at his salary, he is a bargain. His k-rate is climbing. His walk rate is decreasing. If he would be the 5th best pitcher in the 2014 White Sox pen, this team should make the playoffs. More trolling. I never said anything about last year. He was fairly solid last year as a closer, but had a tendency to give up big homers (WAR is not the best measure for relievers, but it's not the worst either, so I will let this pass). However, he's been pretty mediocre this year. There's certainly room to improve, but that doesn't change what's happened. Thus, he would be the 4th or 5th best pitcher in the Sox bullpen right now. If you would like, I can give you any number of measures to indicate this.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:23 AM) 859 vs. 908 OPS The problem is that the return from Avisail Garcia and DeAza is not producing much of anything at the moment, so it's a net wash (this season). Garcia got hurt. Would you rather the Sox have $14 mill committed to Jake Peavy's 4.65 ERA?