witesoxfan

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:42 PM) The best way for the Sox to improve over the next couple of years is to deal Quintana and Danks and backfill those rotation spots with Johnson and Beck. Adding a mid-rotation guy this year allows them to make that transition easier. No it's not. That's one of the worst ways for them to get better. Being able to move Danks would be nice, but he is also symbolic of the risk involved in signing mid rotation starters.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Do you know which one? Is that one from Boston? Whatever the one that costs $300 is. You are vacuuming but you don't have to do anything other than push a button and empty the tray. And yes, it is from Boston. THAT ROOMBAH IS THE NEW WELKAH, NOW WE JUST NEED A SNOWBLOWAH TO BE THE NEW PEDROIAH

How about Pumpkin? or Cupcake?

It was a joke

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) How long do you think it will take the Sox farm system to start producing the talent needed to contend? My guess 3-5 years. Erik Johnson should break camp with the MLB, Marcus Semien is not far behind, and I have really high hopes for Chris Beck. To answer your question, not long.

The best catcher the White Sox have had since Carlton Fisk came about because his team grew tired of him and wanted a change of pace. Nobody had any idea he'd be available that offseason, yet there he was, and then they won the World Series. Frankly, Russell Martin is a guy I hope the Sox are interested in next year if he doesn't resign with the Pirates.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) OK. Makes sense now. It is a very common and low risk surgery. He will not have any problems later. The first surgery was probably to release it from an entrapment and the second is called an ulnar nerve transposition where they take the nerve out of it's tunnel under the arm and move it on top and secure it with fascial tissue. He probably has some damage to his ulnar collateral ligament and the joint is a little loose. Is it nuts that I understand everything you said here?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) You're not taking away from Quintana's value if you sign a mid-rotation starter. Would you rather have Jimenez or Santana and say Jason Castro going forward or Quintana? Quintana, Phegley, and $13-15 million per year over the next 4-5 years to get a better understanding of this team's needs.

My parents got a roombah for Christmas and my absolutely loves it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:07 PM) When will the time be right and who will be available? It could be next year, it may be the year after. I have no idea what their needs are going to be at any given time in the next 2 years. There will be players available though. Yes, there's naturally some deep down fear or apprehensiveness of the unknown - in this instance, not knowing what's actually going to be available - but there are always players available. The idea of bringing in Jimenez or Santana is crazy to me because it seems that they'd be spending money just to spend money. They have plenty of options for the last 2 rotation spots and seeing at least what the team has there is very important for long-term evaluation.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:02 AM) I'm not that shocked. Hitting 5 home runs as a 1B prospect isn't going to turn many heads That's over 56 games and he was recovering from an injury. Barnum is probably a 45-50 in contact with a 65-70+ power. The key with him is getting it going this year, as he got better as the year went on.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) That "surplus value" doesn't help win games if you just admire it. That surplus value is exactly what wins you games. He is being paid like a middle reliever and putting up ace-ace quality numbers. Due to the amount they are saving on him, they'll be able to offer that to someone else when the time is right. It may allow them to save that money and offer it to him when it comes time for an extension. There are plenty of uses for that money that don't involve spending it this year, and there's no need to trade a great player. QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 02:22 PM) Ervin Santana is a #3 borderline #2 starter. I'd love for you to show me guys that have been recently signed for around $13 million a year. Because I see the Scott Kazmir, Scott Feldman, Ricky Nolasco's of the world signing for 11 or 12 minimum. Its just the going rate for starting pitchers and Santana is a way better pitcher than them. And if you really want me to prove you wrong....https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9gIYm7hp32V6QbwoeoXOvKWQ3i9ajgzsRtfrVvx1-tR7NQ4vw $7 million dollars is the new average price payed per WAR. Depends where you look since every website seems to have their own version of WAR in 2014, but Santana's average WAR is right around 2.6 for the past 4 years. So you're right. Just a horrible value for $13 million dollars. Two of the last five years, Ervin Santana has been awful. One of those 5 years he was rather mediocre. He has only really been good in 2 of those years. He's been a very inconsistent pitcher overall and is not worthy of a large investment. Let a team like the Dodgers or Mets make that move. Also, just because the average going rate for WAR is $7 mill (or whatever it is), that does not mean you should sign someone for that exact rate. That merely implicates that you can be getting good value for that amount. Of course, teams like the Phillies are paying Ryan Howard $25 mill a year to put up WAR of -1.1 and 0.4 and the Sox are paying the likes of Adam Dunn $14 mill a year to put up WARs of -3.0, 1.0, and -1. Those all affect it too. You should try and get good deals whenever you can, not give out contracts because guys are "worth it," especially when the cost of the win itself really doesn't add much to the White Sox. While the league average value of WAR right now is $6-7 mill, the value of added WAR right now to the Sox is probably closer to $2-3 million simply because there's not a large difference this year or next year. All this said, the age is still the biggest concern. If Ervin Santana were 27 instead of 31, I'd have no problem with giving him a deal. The fact is, he is older and by the time I figure the Sox will absolutely be competitive - 2016 - he is going to be 33 and beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's the same reason I didn't want Curtis Granderson.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 01:45 PM) In the review, it said he was shut down to have a nerve removed in his arm. Does anyone have more information on that? It sound very peculiar. A re-positioning of the nerve. I don't recall the exact circumstances, but he's become a bit of an injury risk. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws/prospe...ent_id=63264152

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) So can a trade of Chris Sale if that's the goal. He provides incredible surplus value to the White Sox. Trading him makes sense only if they can match the surplus value he provides. No team wants to give that up because it involves giving up 5 very, very good prospects.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 01:44 PM) Explain to me how adding a talented player at a reasonable price hurts any team in any situation. I'd love to hear how signing Ervin Santana is going cause a screeching stop to our entire rebuilding process. How is $50-60 million a reasonable price for a middle of the rotation starting pitcher? I'd like to see the evidence you provide explaining how those are good value deals. As far as I'm aware, a great majority of those deals end up biting teams in the ass.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) So you're telling me that A)you believe you can go out any year and sign a #3 starter for $50M and B) you are fine with not competing in 2015 either? Seems to me like you are content with sitting around and waiting to see if a bunch of fringe talent works out and if not then you go out and sign someone else. Why not sure up your starting 5 this year and then sign a catcher + a reliever next year? Adding $13 to the payroll this year isn't stopping any progress or building. For A, yes, typically you can. They may have that #3 on the roster already, but if not, there are ways of going about acquiring it. For B, I have no idea because it depends on what happens in 2014. 2015 may require another small rebuild. 2015 may only need one piece added to the team. That's why I want to see what the team does in 2014. I have absolutely no problem and, in fact, find it preferable to go into the 2014 season as is. This team still has about a million questions that I would want answered before committing any more money on a player who could ultimately a marginal upgrade. I would rather not "shore up" the rotation this year with the acquisition of an inconsistent, wrong side of 30 starter who may or may not be good in both 2014 and 2015. The $13 million this year would not be an impediment, but it would hold back additional money that they can spend next year or during the season. Ten years ago, the Sox acquired Freddy Garcia for a trio of prospects and Jose Contreras for Esteban Loaiza mid-season in moves that, while made for 2004, were also made with the future in mind. With Dunn's contract coming off the books and the ability to non-tender quite a few others, you could realistically see the same thing this year too.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:49 AM) The discussion about thugs, ruffians, and saying stupid things is fascinating and all, but did you know there's some sort of actual football game in 9 days? I hear this Manning guy is pretty good. what in the hell is a football

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) But aren't those the guys you want to keep? There is not a surplus of talent in this organization. Except for people collecting a check from the White Sox, every baseball person will tell you that. Why are you against the White Sox adding good players? Well here I thought they may have wanted to keep Addison Reed and/or Hector Santiago, but Hahn proved creative and capable of getting great, diversified value out of those two. Maybe the organization feels comfortable with Marcus Semien at 3B and the opportunity comes to acquire Buster Posey. Obviously, this wouldn't happen, but work with me. If the Giants and Sox agree on a preliminary package, the White Sox aren't going to say "No, unfortunately even though Matt Davidson is the one and only player in the organization you'd take to seal this deal, we just can't trade him at this point." The initial point was that the Sox are running out of players that other teams want to trade for, when in reality, that could not be further from the truth. The truth is that the White Sox are running out of players they want or are willing to trade. That is a very good thing and it lets you know that the rebuild has gone very well thus far.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) it's already assumed here the FA pitcher signed will be bad. Then they better not sign him.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) The Sox are running out of players to trade that anyone wants. That's as big of a reason to get a SP now as any. Really? You are telling me no one is going to trade for Daniel Webb or Chris Sale or Jose Quintana or Matt Davidson or Jose Abreu or Avisail Garcia or Adam Eaton or Dayan Viciedo or Alejandro De Aza or Jake Petricka or Erik Johnson? I could continue but I figured 11 was a good start.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) What would you rather have, what the Sox acquired for Jake Peavy or a 2nd round pick? This is a loaded question, because there's no guarantee you can same return on Jimenez/Santana as you did for Peavy. There's no guarantee you can trade either of them without having to eat money first. Hell, there's no guarantee you can even TRADE either one of them.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) That 2nd round pick could wind up not being very good. So could the pitcher you are spending $40 million on. Which carries greater risk?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) It is reasonable because if you suck, its a $5-7 million commitment and all you need is a solid 3 months of production and you acquire prospects who have already developed, instead of waiting for a guy for years and years and years. If you don't think the Sox need a catcher, you are kidding yourself. But they have to not suck, which is an extreme risk with both Jimenez and Santana. I also am aware that the catching situation right now is ugly. As I said, it's very likely that all 3-4 catchers they use this year will no longer be viewed as viable alternatives beyond this year. Still, the downside of using Phegley, Flowers, Nieto, and Jimenez this year is that they suck, but the team is not going to be competitive anyways, so you may as well see if you can find a catcher that you can count on moving forward, at least in a back up role, moving foward.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:22 AM) What hitters are added? I can't predict if the lineup will be capable of hitting well enough to win. But I do think Sale, Q, and Santana is more than enough pitching to win a world series. Without adding another #2 or #3 I don't think the pitching staff is good enough to be a serious contender though. And while I don't think 2014 is going to be any better than a 80 win season, but 2015 playoffs are more than within reach and that should be the goal. Then why not wait until next year to add another starter who will be a year younger (at least) than Santana and make the push then? Honestly, the first question you asked is my entire point. Without knowing what the Sox have, adding old starting pitchers to a young, rebuilding team is a bad, bad move. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:23 AM) The issue is what you can buy with $40M today is a lot better than what you can in a year or two. Yeah I'm going to disagree entirely with this. Adding a starting pitcher to the current White Sox adds very little marginal utility. Adding a catcher next year, whether by free agency or by trade, for even $20 million purchases much, much more value than does the starting pitcher. Vague, blanket statements like this are often - if not always - wrong and easy to disprove.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:19 AM) Oh, so in other words YOU ARE NOT f***ING QUOTING ME. Like I said. Nope, I'm deducing from your own words and drawing conclusions. If I said "I like the color blue and no other colors" and someone said "so you don't like red," I couldn't counter that with "I DIDN'T SAY THAT, NOW DID I?" because I quite clearly implied that I did say that. Again, you said "Richard Sherman is acting like an idiot." Thus, at one point, you felt he was an idiot. An idiot is a stupid person. A stupid person lacks intelligence. Thus, at one point in time, you felt that Richard Sherman lacked intelligence. (turns to judge) Your Honor, I rest my case.