witesoxfan

The White Sox had to deal Quintana too. That one worked out OK.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:12 PM) It seems ridiculous to change course midstream and trade 4 top prospects for Machado especially when there's no way in hell the Sox will be the team to give him his 10 year 350 million dollar deal in free agency. I can understand trade talk but this is dumb to even talk about. Some things you know the Sox are not going to do under Jerry and one of them is sign Machado. I can sort of see why you'd want to trade 4-5 guys out of the guys acquired to sign Machado, but to do it for one year is silly to even discuss. Again, he's not choosing Chicago Sox in free agency. You can dream all you want but that is not happening. This has been discussed ad nauseum, but there are many things people didn't think Reinsdorf and the board would approve, but they did anyways. Again, if the White Sox are not willing to spend a significant amount of money in free agency next year, this rebuild will have slowed down monumentally.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:13 PM) its the Marlins we are talking about here, they practically gave Stanton away Because he had $295 million left on his contract. Marcell Ozuna is going to get something like $8-10 million this year and next. There is a huge, huge difference between Ozuna and Stanton.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) Great post. There's definitely a different standard regarding current Sox players versus players on other teams. Avi's great season means nothing to many Sox fans on here. They need to see him do it again and again. Wait, Abreu has done it every year he's been a Sox and he's still not considered untouchable by fans. Greg, stop trolling. Literally no one has said that Avisail's season meant nothing. We are tempering our expectations based on evidence that suggests this was somewhat fluky.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:08 AM) Which makes the Machado and Harper free agencies unprecedented I feel with ARod's deals and Giancarlo's deal, that these aren't that unprecedented. The free agency period itself will be unprecedented, but the contracts themselves really won't be.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 09:59 AM) That's like saying your friend covered the table's bill at Chili's, so he definitely would do the same at Gibson's. The Sox spending $50 million on a very young international FA isn't all that comparable to a veteran FA who will cost $300+ million. If they aren't going to be players in free agency next year, and they don't realize how much it will cost, this rebuild will be all for naught. There is no guarantee they end up with Machado, but there is a reason they are showing interest in him now.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 09:49 AM) Sure, and what Robert got total, will be somewhere around $10 million a year short of what Machado will get. That's fine, but doesn't change the fact that he was the hot commodity, the Sox were interested, and they won. People using recent history as a citation for why the White Sox won't be involved in free agency and give out huge contracts are looking at a different time frame. I have absolutely no doubt that the Sox will be involved and will pony up to get their guy.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=90968

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 07:03 PM) Still have my doubts they will get into an unprecedented bidding war Machado's free agency won't be unprecedented, and they just won a bidding war for Luis Robert last year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 11:13 PM) I still can't believe fans got worked up about that. Sale was hated by many on here for some reason. I applaud him. He told the front office he wouldn't pitch in those horrifically uncomfortable uniforms. Rather than risk blowing out his arm while pitching in jerseys that he hated and put him in a rotten mood much less uncomfortable mood, he took the scissors to them. Big deal. He had to pay for them and got fined and he prevented his teammates from wearing those monstrocities. Why wouldn't the team laugh about it? Why would anybody take the front office's position on this? Sale was a star and stars can be moody. https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm I do not see "destroying company property" mentioned anywhere.

If teams aren't willing to trade a 55 FV player for Yolmer, then Yolmer is going to remain on the White Sox, which is just fine.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 10:56 AM) I have no problem keeping him, just depends on what kind of return he can get you. Teams value versatility more than ever, so I feel like some of us may be surprised at what he could bring back in return. His current projections plug him in at 1.2 WAR/600, but that's also taking into account his previous replacement level seasons. Assuming the breakthrough was real, and I don't see much to think that it wasn't, there's no reason he couldn't be viewed or sold as a 2-2.5 WAR player moving forward. Over the next 4 years, that puts his value around $70 million for which he will probably be paid something like $24 mill ($500K 2018, $5.5 mill 2019, $8 mill 2020, $10 mill 2021), which provides $46 million of surplus value. A 55 FV prospect is worth about $40 million. I am admittedly grasping at straws here, but I don't see something along those lines as an impossibility, and if you acquire Frazier, then it opens the door for an Avisail Garcia trade immediately, even if you have to take a slight discount on his overall value.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 10:36 AM) 2B & 3B are now open for them. Carlos Sanchez could make some sense for them if they don't feel comfortable going all in on Torres & Andujar next year. Honestly, Yolmer was the first thing that popped into my head as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) At this point, yeah I think we can and should forget about him. If he gives a healthy first half of 2018 somehow, we should trade him. At this point we can't count on him for more than a couple months of health. The odds of him being healthy when we actually need him in 2 or 3 seasons seem extremely low. I mainly was referring to the previous discussion, so I probably should have quoted Cali's post. We're talking about the Sox developing relievers, and no one mentioned Jones. I am not counting on him for anything more, plus he's on the wrong side of 30. I'm hoping for him to show he's healthy enough to be able to flip him.

Did we all forget about Nate Jones? Injuries aside, he's one of the more dominant relievers in the game when his arm is right.

There is nothing to investigate with this trade. Jeter's connections to the Yankees is coincidental. The Marlins let it be known to the rest of the league that they wanted to cut costs. Getting rid of the biggest contract in MLB history is a part of that.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 11:27 AM) I’m definitely against moving any of our top pitching prospects. We need to do everything in our power to develop a formidable 1-2-3 internally, as buying high-end pitching via free agency is typically a costly decision in the long-run. And quite simply, the more high upside arms we have in the system, the more likely we’ll be able to develop that staff. Hansen is most definitely a key part of that. Agreed, it seems much safer both with regards to AAV and overall safety to acquire hitters in free agency than it is to acquire pitching. Tyler Chatwood got $13 mill a year over 3 years. There may be some possible upside to that move, but the dude has been a league average pitcher at best. To actually get a top flight arm takes $20-25 mill a year or significant prospects.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) Miami's farm is very weak and have had bad injury luck. If you could take on Prado and his salary it could lessen what you pay for a Yelich. Hope Prado rebounds and flip at or before deadline eating some salary. I would not trade a high prospect but you could put Guerrero in the package as maybe a second or third piece as you will probably lose him and he would be about #12 in their system. If Stanton won't waive his no trade, they may get desperate for salary relief. I don't have an extensive knowledge of the MLB Rule 5 rules, but I'm quite sure that Guerrero cannot be added to anyone's 40 man roster at this point. He can certainly be traded, but why would any team trade for him prior to the Rule 5 when they would then proceed to lose him for nothing? He has absolutely no value on the trade market.

Just so we're clear, I was definitely with the majority here. I was advocating a switch to the friggin' mound at one point.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:37 PM) Please get traded during the season so he won't have compensation attached. Getting traded would be bad because I imagine anyone trading for him would open up their checkbook to sign him.

This was a good bump.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Dec 5, 2017 -> 06:26 PM) Even the most careful analysis of advanced stats that support a regression theory cannot take into account the human element which can involve many factors ...attitude, injuries, conditioning and training, motivation, among others. In addition there are some players that seem to just figure things out at some point in their career. Some of those factors have been discussed, particularly with Avi's weight, conditioning, foot speed, and quickness. This guy was hauling to first base on ground balls last season and got to a lot of balls down the line and in the gap. I am excited to see him in RF with Eloy in LF. That could be two nice hitters in the corners for us over the next few years. Actually, proponents of advanced statistics is completely aware of such extenuating circumstances, which is why they will use regression analysis to determine statistical significance behind these numbers. They are aware that these numbers aren't the gospel, but they can look at a guy who had a career year, looking at the underlying facts as to what happened, and make an educated guess as to what will happen the next year. That person could absolutely be wrong, and while I hope Avisail Garcia is a 4+ WAR player moving forward, I'm going to keep my expectations tempered moving forward until I see further success. Unfortunately, several players in the majors "haul" to 1st, and many of them are bad. Hustle and work ethic are great things, but they alone do not make a player great. Avisail is going to have to repeat or take further steps forward if he is to convert many others into believers.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 5, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) I think he certainly could, and I have no doubt Hahn is trying to find out what the appetite is. You could argue that Garcia is the most attractive option after the first two of those sign. It just comes down to how many buyers remain at that point. And despite Cain being an obviously better player, he fits a much different niche than Avisail, so really, I don't think his market will have too much of an effect on Garcia.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2017 -> 09:54 AM) They'd have needed 86 wins to beat the Twins, FWIW, although a couple of those wins could have come from us being a better team against the Twins. Then again...that's still a jump of what, 10 wins from our best effort in 2016 and 2015. If they don't deal Sale and Eaton, they probably would have been close to moving on from Avisail too, if not at least platooning him. Now they're either looking at a decent player moving forward or a guy that they can trade for a small package too. The Sox are among the teams best positioned to make noise moving forward. 2018 will be fun watching the kids, and 2019 could be a really great year, especially if they're able to bring in one of the top free agents.

Just as it's better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late, it's better to start a rebuild a year too early than a year too late. The Sox could have certainly gone for it last year and could have snuck into the playoffs with 84 wins or whatever it was, but then they face the Yankees and suddenly you don't have near the assets you did the year before, which greatly diminishes any returns you'd get. I don't see any way they end up with either Eloy or Moncada, let alone a guy like Kopech. This is part of the reason why so many people here have graded the rebuild so highly. The so-called easy part is done, and it's going to be quite a bit more difficult moving forward, but with the assets they've collected, they are positioned very well moving forward.