witesoxfan

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 08:24 AM) Semantics, Balta. A lot of automatic salary increases kicked in, like John Danks or Alexei Ramirez, for example. If you walked around the stadium and asked 1000 fans randomly did the White Sox improve themselves, what would they have said? Well, we added that Jeff Keppinger fellow (he's not even really a starter, is he?) and we re-upped Jake Peavy to a fair salary (lower than before) and finally, we didn't want to pay AJ at his age and coming for the anomalous 2012 season so we finally decided it was right and fair to give Tyler Flowers a shot.... Well, we can go player by player and look at WHY the payroll increased, but nobody believed the talent or the ability to compete vis a vis the Tigers had increased, and that's the only thing that really matters, perception. I thought the Sox were perfectly capable of competing, but they've been so damn sloppy in the field and disappointing years offensively from Flowers, Viciedo, and Konerko in particular have really put a damper on what this team has been able to do. It's just that on top of all of that, they've found ways to lose games this year as opposed to finding ways to win games.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:11 PM) He already has had one winter to piece together a winning team. Lets not forget this team was close to winning the AL Central last year. His job was to maintain talent and to give the team enough to get over that Detroit hump. All he did was sign Keppinger and let Pierzynski walk. Not a very productive winter to say the least. Especially coming off of a relatively successful 2012 campaign. Should we give Mr. Hahn some extra time before we give him a full blown evaluation? YES. However, he has been wayyy too conservative thusfar. Hopefully he can make some moves near the deadline that can help us in the future. So far, Hahn has yet to make his big statement for the team. Yes, he re-signed Peavy but that was a KW inherited player. Its time to be BOLD! Lets move on from the past and set the team up nicely for the future, while at the same time setting themselves up for more financial flexibility to perhaps make a free agent splash or two next winter. He had one winter with a mediocre free agent market with two pretty important pending free agents. Not resigning either was the right move because Youkilis was overpaid, mediocre, and now hurt, and Pierzynski is older, not nearly as productive, and at some point Flowers needed a shot. Beyond Keppinger and Lindstrom, there wasn't a lot Hahn could do. He was always going to go into the year with Flowers behind the plate, you aren't going to replace Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Viciedo, De Aza, Rios, or Dunn...soo what more did you want him to do? He has not been "waaaaay too conservative" considering some of the moves people wanted him to make (BJ Upton, Josh Hamilton, whoever else) and how badly they've blown up. He's played it close to the vest because he knew this team was close to being either a division winner or completely terrible, and they've been the latter. Had he gone out and signed a ton more and tied up money through 2017, he'd have egg on his face right now. The fact that anybody typed this is absurd. This is an incredibly short-sighted and narrow mindset by which to evaluate a GM. Using this mindset, Hahn was either going to 1) Trade a bunch of players, see the team suck, be lambasted while losing prospects in the process. 2) Sign a bunch of players, see the team suck, be lambasted while being financially f***ed till 2017. 3) Sell a bunch of pieces off, get skewered in the media for selling, see the team suck, have media say it's his fault. 4) Play it close to the vest, see team suck, be in a position that gave team to compete and now can sell off, still his fault...? Honestly, tell me which of these 4 options would have been the best route for Mr. Hahn to take, and then get back to me. QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:18 PM) I agree that most of the blame goes to the manager and staff. However, you have to admit Hahn has been a little too conservative thusfar. I will give Hahn one more full year before I truly evaluate his moves. This trade deadline will be pivotal for the organization moving forward. Hahn has not been too conservative and anybody who wants to admit that is either wants to make moves just to make moves (not ever really a good idea) or doesn't understand the nuances of being a GM. Oh, and BTW, the draft picks and Micker Zapata have told me enough about what Hahn wants to do that I'd say the Sox are going to be just fine. If you want to give up on a GM after a year and a half or whatever, then that's your perogative, but I'm willing to give multiple years to a guy who seemingly has an understanding of what he wants to do with this organization and where he wants to take it. Thankfully, Reinsdorf and the board feel the same as me.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 10:56 PM) Tampa would not take Baez. The cubs were pantsed in the Garza deal. The fluff of prospect hype behind the cubs will not get them price. I think the braves land him or Arizona. The Cubs were pantsed? Lee hasn't hit the majors yet, but none of the other pieces have done a whole lot. Garza has been pretty good. That trade is pretty dependent upon Archer and Lee panning out.

I agree with slotting the outfield. In fact, everything I've read suggests that Thompson will stay in CF and Hawkins will move over to RF.

When I saw this, I thought they really did sign him again, because s*** why not?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) This is what I love about scouting reports. How can player A be less athletic than player B yet player B cannot play center field while player A can play all three OF positions? At 16, I'm not sure how you determine that, but in the majors, you have guys like Jim Edmonds who read the ball off the bat really well that can do that sort of thing. Still, you are right, it's silly.

CARLOS GONZALEZ

RICK I REALLY THINK YOU SHOULD TRADE FOR CARL

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) Jim Thome has been hired by the White Sox to serve as a special assistant to the general manager. Which presumably means that his playing career is over. Thome was telling people as recently as May that he wanted to sign with a major league team, but nothing ever came about. The 42-year-old played for the White Sox for four years (2006-2009) and was beloved. What's hilarious, is he can probably hit better than the DH we have making $15 million (leave it be, Wite). Leave what be? I'm pretty sure Thome could hit better than Dunn right now.

The O's have had luck with guys like Feldman, but this is a good return for a guy the Cubs signed this offseason. This is the perfect example of why you sign guys like this to one and two year deals, because then you can usually trade them for something useful down the road. I really like this deal for the Cubs.

I think the place will get a little better over the next month once the Sox start making some trades. There will still be frustration from a contingent of posters, but there will finally be some relief and resolution once some young players start making an impact.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) Anyone who's against this..i guess...does not have a problem with the total talent level we have in the minors. Odd, because I thought that was a giant problem for everyone. If instantly everyone wants older, ready-to-go guys...then I guess we'll never be happy here. I don't think anyone has a problem with this. This is an incredible signing.

Talent wise, I truly believe he is. I mean, seems like, atleast offensively, he is a 50 AVG and a 70 POW? But right now he's probably a 20 AVG 35 POW, and we have no idea how long it will take for him to get beyond that, IF he gets beyond that. Along the same lines, Luis Castillo from last year is probably a 40 AVG 60 POW, give or take, which I would also say merits consideration in the organization's top 25. He's really nowhere to be found. As I said, I love this signing, but I want them to get stateside before I include them in top 25 lists.

This is a great, great signing.

Sam Demel, Fred Lewis, David Adams, Mark Montgomery...some of these guys are obviously better than others, but just looking at numbers, they all appear to be decent players who aren't going to be game changers but should be MLB contributors. I'd take any of them for Keppinger. I'd just much, much rather get something this year for him. If necessary, I'm sure you'd be able to dump him for nothing in the offseason.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 09:46 AM) So the Knicks got Andrea Bargnani. Just what they needed: another overpaid player that barely plays defense and loves to jack 3's... Hahahahaha that team is going to shoot so many 3's next year.

Early Rasmussen polls indicate the following 2% - Buy, stay in the race, sell the future so that the Sox can finish 3rd this year and have nothing going forward 92% - Sell, this team is s*** and they will continue to be s*** 6% - Picking your nose is good for the environment

That's enough. If you want to continue this discussion, I would strongly recommend taking it to PMs

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 12:54 AM) 6 titles? Me likey. Did Oz/KW hate each other from the start? Make it 7. Williams and Guillen did not hate each other during 2005 as that team was pretty much the vision both of them had for a baseball team. And did the Bulls win in the 90s BECAUSE of the dispute between the GM and coach or IN SPITE of the dispute? I would argue, quite vehemently, that it was the latter.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 11:48 PM) I wouldn't call that sufficient proof, but rather an argument opposite my argument. I do not recall watching Dunn in 2008 when he was with the D-Backs, but he was a big time mid-season acquisition for a team in the heat in contention, and the Diamondbacks wound up going 22-22 with Dunn, two wins away from making the playoffs (or at least game 163). It would be really interesting to hear some Diamondbacks fans opinion on him during that 44 game stretch. As for last year, he did aid to the hot start, but he started to fall off right around the same time when the Sox surprised the whole league and were in first place. He played his best when nothing was expected of the Sox. Was it injuries, another reason, or was it that he does not preform when the pressure picks up? His numbers with the Diamondbacks included an .889 OPS. He hit homers, got on base, and increased the team's productivity in general. It's not his fault they went 22-22. Regarding last year, there were talks of him being hurt during the entire second half. Anyways, this is the last I'm talking about this, I obviously completely disagree with you and really, I think you're fighting your own battle here.

The more I read through this thread, the more I think, if the Sox make a move during the offseason, it will be with the intention of playing well in 2014 with an eye towards the division in 2015. There are a lot of holes and question marks that are really glaring going into next season, and this is not an incredibly strong free agent class. Make a trade or two for a high upside bat, make a conservative signing or two that will be here for 3 years, and call it an offseason with the intention of winning about 81-85 games next year. If they remain mediocre to bad and only win 75, that's fine, and if they surprise and go bonkers with 92 wins, that's fine too. Just don't do anything stupid to get tied into a really bad long term deal.

Paying a premium for 5 different positions when the team would still need a full out baseball miracle to even get back into contention is about the worst idea I've heard. I would strongly suggest staying inside, because if the heat is making you that crazy, you are apt to do something later that you may regret.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 09:37 PM) Will someone please explain why kids from St. Thomas are subject to the MLB Draft, but kids from DR and Venezuela are immediate free agents. St. Thomas is an unincorporated territory of the United States. Players from locations under US jurisdiction/ownership/property are subject to the American First-Year Player Draft, just as players from Puerto Rico - a US Commonwealth - are subject to the First-Year Player Draft.

Keppinger does have value, limited as it may be. Having a guy that is capable of playing 3B and 2B (and in desperate situations, SS) with the ability to hit left handed pitching at the level he does is extremely valuable, but it is limited value. Yeah, I'm not going to move him for scraps, but if an offer with a legit prospect or two comes rolling in, I don't think twice about making the deal.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 06:49 PM) Its just my opinion, thats why I said I think. Sorry that my opinion offends you so much Except that there is sufficient evidence - August and September with Arizona and the first half of the season last year - to prove that your primary theory or opinion - that Dunn only produces when his teams are, for lack of a better term, fistf***ed - is wrong. Opinions can be wrong when there is proof to the contrary. If you want to believe Dunn is a loser, that's fine, I have nothing against that. I don't believe it to be true, but we're entitled to our opinions on that.