witesoxfan

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 12, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) Vizquel did it for twice as long though. Did what for twice as long? Jones has 10 GGs, Vizquel has 11. He's played for twice as long, and maybe deserves more gold gloves (but maybe not too), and he still isn't close to the same offensive force that Jones was. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) That is a huge factor. It has already kept Mark McGwire out. I can't find anything that connects Jones to PEDs though. There might be suspicion, just as there is with nearly all players over the past decade, but I don't believe he's ever been linked to it. QUOTE (sircaffey @ Aug 12, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) I guess that's where the issue of longevity comes into play. Omar's been Omar for 17 years. Jones for 9 years. Likely .273 avg, 400 SB for Omar. .256 avg, 450 HR for Jones. They are both borderline for me. Andruw moreso than Omar. A couple good years for Andruw could end the debate. 400 stolen bases isn't the same thing as 400 homers, and I still think that 400 homers is more meaninful than 400 stolen bases. Jones doesn't have the reputation that Vizquel does of being a mentor and coach to young players. --- At the end of the day, Andruw Jones was a top 10-20 player in the game for the better part of a decade. That should be Hall of Fame worthy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 12, 2010 -> 01:14 PM) At one point, those Braves' teams looked to have Andruw and Chipper Jones, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux and Steve Avery all headed to the Hall of Fame. Avery's career was wiped out by the injuries, and Jones has very little chance to make it now, although he will probably get a lot of votes because of his 10 Gold Gloves. I wouldn't say Jones has very little chance to make it, and instead, would suggest he's almost certainly going to make it. Any potential PEDs issues aside, Jones was one of the best defensive CFers of our time, and, if he wasn't the best, he was among the best CFers in the entire game during his career, and there were certainly years you could make arguments that he was a top 5 player in the game. On top of that, he's only 33, and he obviously still has power, so it's quite possibly that he could hang around for another 3-5 years as a backup, hit about 50 more homers and wind up with over 2000 hits and 450+ homers. The downside of Jones' career is how quickly it tailspinned out of control. He hasn't been nearly the same player he was with the Braves, and he's been a downright mediocre player for 4 years now. That doesn't change the fact that, for a 9 year period, he was probably one of the top 10-20 players in the entire game. If people are talking about Omar Vizquel being a Hall of Famer, then Andruw Jones absolutely has to be one too. He was as good as Vizquel defensively, but was a much, much better offensive player.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Aug 11, 2010 -> 02:41 PM) This. Plus, remember when Dye suffered that awful foul ball broken leg before he made it to the Sox? I know it was earlier than Beltran's injury but it's still a similar situation. That was in the '02 playoffs, and 2003 was pretty much a lost season for him. 2004 was the year he recovered, and he came back to life in 2005.

I understand what you're saying Sqwert, but Dye was pretty much the perfect example of the Sox picking up a player who was left for dead and resurrecting his career. Dye put up a .231/.305/.397/.702 line in the second half of 2004, and a .200/.246/.385/.631 line in his first 36 games of the 2005 season too. There were quite a few people who thought Dye was done and washed up, and he turned out to be one of the best free agent signings in White Sox history. I think Jermaine Dye works perfectly as an example of a guy people thought was done and the Sox saw something in him. I'm not on board for acquiring Carlos Beltran - mainly because of his inflated salary and absolutely no idea what to expect - but acquiring him isn't the worst idea in the world and it tends to fit Williams' MO of finding players other teams thought were done and over with and getting something out of them. If the Mets were willing to take Linebrink while also eating some salary (and taking back only a couple of mediocre prospects too), then I could most definitely see a move occurring.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 10, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) I was with him on the "O's are better than the record appears to be" until I saw that. Seriously. It would have been better for him to say that the O's are a bad team with a lot of young talent that got played the Sox well. 25 game disparities don't happen because of luck. The O's played decent baseball, the Sox played like dogs***, and they still could have won all 3 games that they lost.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 10, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) My friend the O's fan has this take on the series: So the White Sox are worse than the Orioles, and the Orioles have only been unlucky this year because they've gotten curb-stomped by 4 teams? That's funny, because they are also 6-19 against Cleveland, Detroit, Florida, Kansas City, New York (Mets), and Seattle, which is 13 games under .500 against 6 teams with losing records, and 3 of those teams are well below .500. So he can take his Orioles over the Angels, Royals, Tigers, and Mariners, but considering how bad they've been overall, it's fair to say that they are still atleast a 90 loss team in any other division. I'd say their talent level is actually pretty comparable to that of the Nationals, and they're well on their way to losing 90 games in a division not nearly as strong as the AL East. You can go ahead and tell your Orioles friend that he's delusional. To be fair though, I think we all would be too if the Sox hadn't won 80 games in 13 years.

Garcia was solid in his last game against Minnesota. And then Jenks blew it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 03:27 PM) Agreed. Now Wite? Ship his ass outta here. I will also be taking my talents to South Beach.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Aug 8, 2010 -> 11:44 PM) Exactly! When has Walker ever taken in a batter that had a bad track record and transformed them like Coop does to pitchers? If Walker was any good, guys like Brian Anderson would've been better. Dye, Quentin, Crede, Rios. Brian Anderson is a terrible example, because he's been terrible everywhere he's gone. Ryan Sweeney is still a singles hitter. Greg Walker is pretty much an average hitting coach. He's seen some guys do incredible things, and he's seen some guys fail on his watch. Not everything is to his credit or to his fault.

QUOTE (BFirebird @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 12:54 PM) That is the most disappointing thing about those losses. The pitching staff did their part for the most part, just couldn't hit anything from garbage pitching except Guthrie. He is the only good pitcher we faced...and he still only marginally good. Millwood has pretty much always pitched well against the Sox, and has almost always been a tough luck loser. 1-5 in 11 career starts with a 3.14 ERA.

If the Sox decided to start a 4-game winning streak today, I would be happy with that. I would also be happy if they decided they wanted to win 9 of their next 10 too.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 10:28 AM) I know everyone keeps saying our pitching staff is better than the Twins but they are playing really well, posting a 3.42 ERA since the ASB. I just don't see them falling apart out of nowhere. They've been consistently solid all year long. The Twins 3-4-5 in their rotation from June until the ASB were terrible, and Liriano wasn't outstanding by great either. Slowey, Baker, and Blackburn are 3 of the big reasons the Sox 25-5 run didn't just get them back into the race but instead into 1st place heading into the ASB. Duensing is better than Blackburn (who had an ERA of 6+ before being sent down) and both Slowey and Baker have turned it on a bit in the past 3 weeks.

QUOTE (buckweaver @ Aug 6, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) To me, Manny Ramirez is the poster child for all that's wrong about the world's greatest game. I understand he can hit the crap out of a baseball and that's why he's to be considered. But steroids, arrogance and laziness are what he'll be remembered for the most. I'd really rather win without him...and maybe even rather lose without him than win with him. "Fat, stupid, and lazy is no way to go through life, son."

I'd trade Danks for Votto too, but I strongly doubt the Reds are going to be looking to deal Votto any time soon, and on top of that, I don't think that starting pitching is going to be one of their big areas of need coming up, considering they have Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Wood, and Chapman (and maybe Bailey too), and they have Arroyo and Harang's contracts coming off the books too, totaling $23.5 mill (though they do have to pay $2 mill buyouts to both of them). If anything, I think they'll probably try to lock up Votto long-term this offseason considering he's going to be arbitration eligible for the first time. You don't just up and trade a legitimate MVP candidate when you are this close to putting together a group of players that could win for quite a long time.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 5, 2010 -> 08:18 PM) Great. Baltimore sucks all year and lets the Twins beat up on them last week. Now they get a new skipper and look motivated to play again right before we visit them. I'm not worried about Baltimore at all. They won 3 games against an Angels team that was 10-17 in their previous 27 games. The Angels just really aren't a good team this year.

Anyone else think that was an audition for Sergio? Cuz I do.

Is there really any doubt who the gold glove winner at SS is at this point? Holy hell.

I'm just going to assume at this point that if the Sox don't find or have a bunch of money to use on the bullpen this coming season that Infante will be apart of it.

Oh yeah, and since the Royals are still in the AL Central, Jose Guillen was DFA'ed. No, the Sox should not pick him up. .236/.305/.369/.674 in his last 352 PAs .242/.277/.335/.613 in his last 174 PAs .175/.224/.299/.523 in his last 107 PAs .073/.093/.122/.215 in his last 43 PAs It is possible to be worse than Kotsay.

It's like the Metrodome never left.

There's really no reason for Boston to sell off. 10 left with New York 7 left with Tampa 9 left with Toronto 6 with Baltimore 7 with Chicago 6 with Seattle 3 with Oakland 3 with Los Angeles 3 with Texas That's 12 games against teams that are in last place and 17 against the two teams in front of them, with only 10 against other good teams. They have plenty of time to get healthy, and if they're healthy, they can certainly make a run.

Baltimore is f'ing terrible. Anything less than 3 of 4 would be a disappointment, and they really should sweep.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Aug 5, 2010 -> 11:54 AM) I don't necessarily disagree on the bolded part Witesoxfan, especially if you mean pure physical ability at this stage of Garcias' career. I happen to think a big part of a players, particularly a pitchers, "talent"is between the ears. Over the years Garcia has shown as much smarts & mental toughness (cajones if you well) than anyone else that I can think of. Taking that into consideration, I personally believe that Garcia has as much "talent" as anyone on the team. Does Jackson? I don't know. I hope so, but we'll have to see. I simply mean physical talent. Freddy Garcia is basically Paul Byrd right now, without the goofy looking face or windup. And in regards to pitchers, Danks and Floyd are #1 and #2.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 03:27 PM) That 49 HR, near MVP season he posted in 2004 seemingly out of nowhere, before falling back to earth the moment he signed his contract in Seattle certainly has raised some eyebrows. The concept of a contract year may not work on a broad scale, but it doesn't mean it's not entirely possible. He was hurt last year, but this year, in yet another contract year, this time in a great hitters park, he's murdering the ball. Konerko is doing the same thing. It's entirely possible that some guys will work harder in preparation to get a large contract in the offseason, and then they relax once the have greater financial security. It could also be steroids, but that's merely speculation.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 04:32 PM) Im not really in agreement with the idea that the Pirates or every team would claim Young. There may be a few teams who would take a $20mil risk, but I think the a fair number would pass at this point. Not to mention the entire idea seems perplexing because if Young was available, they would have dealt him at the trade deadline. No way is AZ just going to let him go for free. So youd have to be willing to pay the salary + give up prospects. He's not leaving Arizona, and I wasn't suggesting he was available. All I was saying was that he's a valuable commodity at that price. Players who can hit 20+ homers and steal 20+ bases while being able to play a competent centerfield are very valuable, and any bad team would be able to claim him and then either keep him or deal him themselves for prospects if the DBacks were to simply let him go, simply suggesting that he wouldn't clear waivers. If for whatever reason the DBacks felt the need to move Young, they would have done so. FanGraphs speculated that Arizona is actually perfectly content with both their offense and their ability to find hitters who can hit in their ballpark (and that's reasonable, considering it is a great park to hit in), and they've only been moving their pitching to acquire more pitching. In dealing both Haren and Jackson, they loaded up on pitching, and I have to imagine that they'll get some type of pitcher for Qualls too.