caulfield12

Zunino? Or the Mariners are going to give him one more chance?

They can't go with both Smith and Narvaez when they're breaking in Fulmer, Burdi, Giolito and Lopez. They'll need at least one veteran "mentor" type...as there's almost zero likelihood either of those guys are capable of taking 75-80% of the playing time offensively, and in this case defense is even more important to protect the young pitchers' confidence.

The Padres are projected to be paying over $30 million to players on other teams this year...might even be more than their own players. Wil Myers could be the only one over $1 million barring a trade.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-sets-clo...-162900269.html 7 1/2 years later, GOP still without a realistic replacement for ObamaCare

Jose Bautista (depending on money and has to be a one year deal) Pedro Alvarez Wellington Castillo (not sure about his pitch framing) Ryan Hanigan Jarrod Dyson Chris Carter Boone Logan (especially if Jennings is traded) Greg Holland (depending on money) Derek Holland Doug Fister Robbie Ray Colby Lewis Yasiel Puig (well, just because) Chase Utley

Let's not overlook that especially Jennings...but also Petricka and Putnam could have some value as veteran trade deadline acquisitions by contenders. Jennings, as an additional selling point, doesn't have the relatively big contract like Duke did for a loogy.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) The local Union president for the Indiana Carrier workers dared to criticize trump for misrepresenting the situation today. The president elect took to Twitter to publicly and directly insult the man. That man is now receiving death threats. This is how authoritarianism takes hold. Silence all critics, make it clear that anyone who speaks up will face retribution. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/201...ltitasking.html Didn't hear the part about the death threats until now... Just talked to Chuck: "He needs to worry about getting his cabinet filled and leave me the hell alone."https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/806660011904614408 …://https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump...0011904614408 … Chuck, a union leader in Indianapolis, says he is now getting death threats. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/806660011904614408 …://https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump...0011904614408 … http://www.islandpacket.com/news/politics-...e119594213.html

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:25 PM) I think they're trying to replicate the Royals model. THE OPPOSITE, THOUGH IN TERMS OF PRICING STRATEGY That model was predicated on scrap heap signings (Blanton/Wang/Chris Young/Madson), being cabled together with an impressive core of arms developed internally. Hochevar was a high profile starting failure, then 6th-7th inning guy...but they obviously hit big with Herrera as a Latin American signing and then Wade Davis in the James Shields trade. Not to mention having a veteran closer in Holland. So you had only Holland who was semi-expensive, and Davis who's finally NOW getting to $10 million in his final year before hitting free agency but was a bargain at the time. That whole time, KC never had a "lock down lefty," going with guys like Tim Collins and Morales. They added Strahm this year, but Soria's high profile struggles pretty much cancelled anything he did out, and then Davis and obviously Holland were both hurt.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:28 AM) Here's the thing - if you don't take the Nats offer, you are in a lose lose situation. That's why the deal had to be made, regardless if it was pitching heavy. 1. You aren't going to find a better offer for Eaton than the one you got, take the best offer, regardless of position, we did not yet have a surplus of pitching 2. His value is at an all time high, his playing style is more prone to injuries. What if you hold on to him and he gets injured or he could not repeat the season he had? 3. If you don't trade him when the offer is right, the other fans will b**** about this being a half ass rebuild, no one should be off-limits yaddy yaddy yadda. There's no way Eaton is more than a 3-4 WAR (assuming he stays healthy) if he plays CF anything like he did in Chicago. It's shocking they were so willing to gamble on him going back to that spot (and sure, they can move him to RF when Harper is gone in two years)...that they didn't analyze a lot of video from 2014 (when he played the position pretty well, except for erratic throwing) to 2015 (terrible everything, complete loss of confidence) is unfathomable. It's almost like the whole Alex Rios in CF vs. RF thing. To gamble your job (in the case of Rizzo, especially if Lopez/Giolito both burn him or Eaton gets injured) on Adam is pretty crazy/desperate/nutty to me. That's not even taking into account his "mixed history" from AZ and then all the Drake LaRoche/pro-Sale and anti-KW stuff in 2016 and a few of his Twitter outbursts. Just too many things could go wrong.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:21 AM) I think you all are too hung up on rankings. They are all based on opinion, so they really don't mean anything. They mean more for college basketball recruiting, but, sure...inexact science. (This comes from someone who had to be contented as a University of Iowa fan occasionally turning 2-3 star recruits, and even walk-ons like Dallas Clark, into NFL/NBA players...and one McDonald's All-American every decade was like a miracle from heaven.) On the other hand, they were pretty darned accurate for the Cubs. Despite all the hype and PR, the only one who was expected to be a regular player who hasn't made it is Soler, and that's partially based on injuries/not being able to stay healthy, and the other half on performance. Dick Allen has gone through the 1st round draft picks, Top 10's and BA Top 100 lists a number of times here (listing them out by year or decade), and there's a tremendous bust ratio outside of the Top 3-5 picks, and, even then, you can look at Gordon Beckham's draft class or Aiken/Kolek to see the inherent risk, even in drafting in the Top 5. White Sox fans only need to hear the names Jon Rauch and Joe Borchard, lol.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:02 AM) I think people also forgot how good this past draft class was and that we're finally bearing fruits from our Latin American operations. Our A-Ball outfields will likely consist of Basabe, Call, Fisher, Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While none of those guys are top 100 prospects, they collectively represent quite a bit of talent. And there are plenty of other interesting positional prospects in the low minors like Nunez, Cruz, Curbelo, & Zangari. Anyways, my point is simply that the cupboard isn't nearly as barren as some here are making it out to be. Obviously we still need to add some guys who are closer to the show if we want to accelerate this rebuild, but we're finally starting to see some real positional depth in the lower minors. Not to mention that all those players will finally have an assembly of talent together on one team, and instead of them being promoted individually...the front office will start thinking more carefully about building a "winning tradition" in the minors and moving them together more strategically, rather than just rushing/challenging them or whatever the system was before. Forcing them to fail so they could deconstruct them later, but that failure creates doubts in the heads of so many young players when they're so used to success. Brian Anderson, for example, could never adjust once the game actually got difficult and more cerebral and less physical at the major league level. (Partying all the time didn't help, either.) This "wave after wave" approach is one that has a lot of merit, and one you could clearly see paying off for teams that had 2-3 "top prospects" bunched together at each level of the organization...those teammates learned how to trust each other, how to play the game in a fundamentally correct way and how to win together, so they weren't just thrown together like the island of misfit toys and expected to gel at the major league level, where coaching/instruction tends to take a back seat and you're thrown directly into the great blue ocean to "sink or swim" without a lifeline.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:00 AM) Well, Moncada is no longer with the Red Sox, so that makes sense. Are people really this influenced by a ML cup of coffee at 21? If so, hopefully they can get Reed/Martes/Fisher/Tucker for Q. There's absolutely no way Moncada moves out of the Top 10 based on looking bad over a week's worth of games against offspeed stuff. Byron Buxton had more ups and downs than that (in 2014 and 15), and barely wavered in his ranking. It almost feels like the only way that happens is if Sox prospects get automatically downgraded for having White Sox next to their names. Giolito, it's a little more reasonable to expect a slide...because he did suffer a pretty pronounced velocity drop over a sustained period of games, and his ERA/peripherals were more or less terrible (other than results from off-speed pitches). Someone like AJ Reed (if he's still even eligible for the lists, don't you go off with 130 AB's for 50 IP?), that's a bit more understandable when you saw him slide, or Gallo, previously.

The best way to look at those two deals is as a combination. Q or Eaton wasn't enough to pry lose Moncada, who was apparently the only "untouchable" (along with Urias, Bregman, Turner, Benintendi) on the market. For all we know, if Moncada goes 12/20 and becomes an integral part of the line-up down the stretch for Boston, he would have been untouchable as well. Those 12 k's in 20 at-bats might have changed the fortunes of two organizations quite dramatically. If Hahn turned down the Giolito/Lopez/Robles/Dunning deal (as confirmed by the Washington Post)...it's only because he knew there was no way to get one of those two key (Moncada or Benintendi) players from Boston, but he also had the knowledge he would get everyone he REALLY wanted in the two combined deals except for Devers and Robles. So instead of looking at it as two individual/distinct trades, I'll always see it as those two key pieces for a "package" of 7 guys which was only available in that "one-two" punch. It's also quite possible the position players that Hahn is targeting are going to come from the Astros, Dodgers, etc., for Q, and he feels quite confident the framework is basically in place to make a move in the next 6-7 months. Not to mention the fact that any contender losing a starting pitcher to a season-ending injury is automatically going to be in a desperate position to be raked over the coals (that said, would prefer they trade Q now as well, as long as they get a fair price, before spring training). It's going to be tempting not to glance frequently at ESPN or BR and watch what Benintendi, Devers and Robles are doing, but it's kind of one of those situations like when you've already bought or sold a stock...monitoring the day to day price after you've already sold will simply drive you crazy. (Plus, that's for the messageboards to do!)

The Yankees are insane. Next, they'll be taking Robertson back again (well, they already tried that once, if not twice)... And how exactly are the Marlins planning to compete this year without Fernandez? It's almost like they're contemplating this upcoming season and competing for the playoffs as if he's still a member of the team. Weird.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:12 PM) I can tell you one thing for sure. I will be watching less baseball this year than I have in any season probably since Robin Ventura left Chicago as a free agent. I have not been nearly this bitter with the White Sox since that specific day. I had thought about Soxfest after getting a nice bonus this quarter, and there is no way I am spending $500 to do that now. Fair enough. It's hard to see three assets like Sale (especially), Eaton and Q go out the door...and nothing other than 2012 to show for it. Sale was a homegrown superstar, and the best White Sox pitcher in decades. That said, as many others have mentioned, there was clearly a desire on the part of Hahn to move on from those two guys are THE leaders and move on to the next generation of Sox baseball with seemingly a completely fresh start, including a new manager. There are no guarantees of success, but the AL Central is setting up really well for the Sox in that 2019-22/23 window. Of course, the caveat being is that it's all ON PAPER. The one thing that gives me hope is that if you look back to that championship team, not much of it was a direct product of having the best farm system in baseball in 2000, other than Mark Buehrle, Garland and a very young Joe Crede. A lot of the key pieces bombed or were traded (Rauch/Borchard/K.Wells/Fogg/Ginter/Wright/Borcelo/later Reed). It certainly didn't work out compared to the Cubs' 2014-15 BA Top 10 lists. And all that said, they were still able to compete for a championship with a "medium-sized" payroll. But the timing had to be perfect to get Dye off an injury, AJ with his clubhouse issues, Iguchi without even scouting him in person, Everett (character issues), Garcia (largely due to Ozzie connection and their farm system) and especially Contreras, who was pure luck in the sense that a flier on Loiaza ended up as the best pitcher in baseball for the last 2 months of 2005 and the first two months of 2006. You had Pods coming off a down 2nd year, a team willing to take Lee's contract, and then all those other "lucky" breaks like Jenks/Hermanson/Politte/Cotts coming together after Takatsu faltered.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Coming in second does you no good in free agency. Half of that list doesn't matter. One quarter of it happened literally a generation ago. I'd bet money that JR is dead by the time the White Sox win another division title. Would you have bet money three days ago that Thad Bosley, SoxFest and I would be close to relentlessly optimistic and you would be the "dark cloud"?? Sure, everything can completely blow up in their face, they COULD face a 30 year Royals/Pirates period wandering in the wilderness...but, to quote Dick Allen, why even be a fan of the team if it's not going to bring you any pleasure/joy/happiness/contentment?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:51 PM) OK, one thing we should know as Sox fans is that there is zero chance of them bidding on top line free agents when we are going to be coming off of two completely terrible season. We don't do that coming off of good seasons. I don't know why this has taken traction, but look at the White Sox free agent history, and tell me why there is any answer other than no. Simple. 1) They haven't rebuilt like this since the late 90's. 2) Albert Belle/Alex Rodriguez/Tanaka/Adam Dunn 3) The biggest financial treasure is there for the taking in franchise history if they have the looks of the 2014-15 Cubs heading into 2019 and can negotiate an advantageous media rights deal, which will obviously create another $50-75 and even $100 million dollars per year to play around with. 4) This is JR's likely last opportunity at an extended run as he's in his early 80's....and the logic of rebuilding but NOT FINISHING the rebuild if they're just a couple of players away, maybe even 3...is just completely nuts. That's what we have been dealing for the last 3-4 years, except we were trying to reload with one of the worst farm systems in baseball and a barren Latin American pipeline. 5) They have a special connection to Cuba that few if any teams have (of course, we don't know which direction that will go under Trump, in terms of continued "opening up" of the country), with the agents like Jaime Torres and buscones. Contreras, El Duque, Alexei, Viciedo, Rodon is Cuban-American, Abreu, now Moncada. They have a manager who has a much clearer way of communicating with those players than Ventura, since he's fluent in Spanish. We also just brought in 3 big-time Latin American talents in Moncada (Cuba), Basabe (Venezuela) and Lopez (DR). That's not an accident. And Paddy.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) Good deal for both teams. Cubs get their closer and Royals get a guy under control for 4 years with all star potential. I thought Soler was going to be the best of the Cubs prospects (Kris Bryant has already ended that discussion) but he seems to be injury prone. If he can stay on the field and get more consistent then the Royals win the deal long term but I think the Cubs can probably care less. They get a top 5 closer in MLB and quite honestly Soler was expendable and didn't seem to be much of a factor in their Championship season this past year. He'll get to play everyday in KC and will probably have much less pressure on him there than he did with the Cubs. All-Star potential is probably pushing it at this point with Soler. Plus, they're sacrificing a lot of defense in that cavernous outfield for OBP/homers, if all goes well. He's clearly a better player than Avi Garcia, but he's closer to Avi than an All-Star. Staring at losing Cain, Hosmer, Moustakas in the face (and Morales already out the door)...the Royals have to generate power somewhere. And who knows how long Salvy Perez (despite his relatively young age) and Alex Gordon hold together physically.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:41 PM) Kyle Schwarber has 8 career hits vs. lefties and he is highly regarded. And how many homers/XB in how many at-bats against RHP? If the biggest problem the Cubs have is what to do with Schwarber against lefties, they'll be just fine. Plus, Jon Jay...despite being LHed, had pretty decent numbers against LHP. And they've also got Bryant, Contreras and Baez to balance out Heyward/Schwarber/Rizzo.

So the Astros are now "payroll encumbered" because of all their moves so far this offseason? Luhnow isn't dumb. But, since we now have the international cap back in place....by all means, send some money along and pry an extra piece like Mike Cameron's kid away. Tucker, fwiw, still has a long road, saw him play in Quad Cities this year and he looked more like Ryan Sweeney than a 30 homer guy. It's going to take him another 2 1/2 years or so, but he has that pretty left-handed stroke that everyone covets and the power SHOULD develop with that frame. If they do target Maitan, it will be interesting if we ever get a read on what the Sox scouts felt about the likes of Benintendi, Devers, Robles, etc. Probably we'll never know. Just leery of projecting players that are in A ball and below. We've heard so much about the Latin American pipeline and all the hype over Micker Adolfo, and he hasn't even come close to making it to Winston-Salem. And, in the end, it also comes down to confidence in your scouting. It's easy to make mistakes. Look at Viciedo, Soler, Rusney Castillo...and where Puig has fallen, since 2013-14. Abreu isn't the same hitter he debuted as. Yet we now have the latest Cuban phenom in Moncada. And, not only talent, but the ability to deal with adversity or make adjustments instead of just falling in love with workouts and physical tools. We've seen Tim Anderson make adjustments at every step up the ladder, but also a plethora of guys like Brian Anderson/Beckham/Fields/Viciedo/Jared Mitchell/Avi Garcia failed to master the mental side of the game and how to deal with failure or injuries.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) I cannot believe this return. Giolito is the #3 prospect in the entire game. Lopez #13. Dunning was the Nat's first rounder just last year. All of that for Adam freaking Eaton. Thank God for advanced stats showing that the slappy, oft-injured outfielder was a +6 fWAR last year. Also, you know Dusty Baker loves his grind factor. The Sox will wake up tomorrow with the top system in all of baseball and three huge assets left in Quintana, Frazier, and Robertson to deal off. The future is much brighter today than it was 2 days ago. Robertson has to prove he's 100% and get his crisp cutter and confidence back....then you deal him, rinse and repeat (theoretically) with Nate Jones. Frazier, Abreu and Cabrera...you wait and listen, but it's hard to imagine Melky being worth a whole lot more than dumping that salary, opening up playing time (lowering the team record, likely, for a May/Engel/Tilson/Avi Garcia/Coats) and creating more and more salary flexibility. Then again, look at the money going to Morales, Beltran, Carlos Gomez...a 2-3 month rental will probably fetch more than selling him off now, but, then again...you save an extra $6-8 million if you act now. And it's not like they can turn around and invest that money into going over the cap on international prospects at this point. Maybe they can find a bargain or two in Korea, Japan or Cuban from the "older/veteran" guys. Then a couple of "scrap heap/rehab" guys like Holland...and hope to replicate the success with Loaiza/Humber/M.Gonzalez and flip them (ala Cubs).

QUOTE (HBaines03 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:50 PM) I understand the reason for the rebuild and I think you trade whomever if it is a quality return. My concern is more if these prospects will be prepped and directed in the best manner possible to reach their potential and make the majors. My concern is if the major league coaching staff is up to the task of getting the best out of these players once they make the club. It was just 2-3 years ago we looked like a very talented, young cost controlled group and saw very weak results. I think our coaching staff did a very poor job of getting the best out of the group of men they had available. Thoughts? When did we look very talented? 2012? 2014 the first month with Abreu and Avi Garcia? We all know the story with Viciedo and Beckham. I'm just not sure what other "talented" players we can point to (internally developed) unless you want to go with Semien and Thompson. Looking back on everything, the Danks injury played a pretty large part in the downfall of a franchise that simply can't afford to carry more than one or two bad contracts. The string of bad to terrible free agent signings. Not getting anything back for guys like Crain, Floyd, DeAza, Alexei Ramirez, etc., when they had opportunities to sell them. The "best" pitcher developed after the Quintana discovery in 2012 (along with Nate Jones)...probably you're talking Hector Santiago and Erik Johnson. The cupboard has been completely barren, other than Tim Anderson/Rodon and this recent draft.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:58 PM) His fastball was topping out in the high 80's when he signed at age 18. He can now reach triple digits and sustainable high 90's. Although in the second half of this season, Giolito's FB was 92-96 and he got pounded with that pitch (at the MLB level, at least). Before that, yeah...upper 90's. Interestingly, he was quite effective with the rest of his off-speed repertoire, which is the key to any "stuff" pitcher moving from thrower to pitcher. Lopez actually passed Giolito in the eyes of many observers and throws almost as hard. Hopefully Cooper can figure out a way to smooth out Giolito and Spencer Adams, who almost becomes forgotten now after being one of the few gems of the system a year ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationa...m=.28b61e7603b6 White Sox were offered Giolito, Robles, Lopez and Dunning for Sale, turned it down. Obviously, Hahn was targeting the combination of Moncada/Kopech/Basabe as more than worth the tradeoff for Robles. He clearly wasn't going to get Moncada+ for Quintana or Eaton. Rizzo and Hahn both risking their careers on Adam Eaton...who was the best player that Hahn traded for, as well. It's an even bigger risk because Eaton will have to play CF for at least two years in Washington with Harper in RF. As someone said, if not for an unknown 915th overall, 30th round pick in Hector Santiago...he, Sale and waiver claim Q might end up saving the franchise. Ironic, because Lopez was signed for $17,000 himself out of the Dominican. Rotation is currently Q (for now), Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields and Fulmer/Beck/???. In addition to those guys, you've now got 4-6 guys with reportedly top of the rotation stuff in Giolito/Lopez with Kopech/Burdi/Hansen/Adams the next step down, at Winston-Salem or Birmingham depending on whether they're starting (all three SHOULD be). You've also got Kopech/Lopez/Burdi/Hansen on the "upswing," and Giolito/Adams with some questions about their velocity. You've got another set of "interesting" arms in Stephens, Danish, Guerrero that look more like pen pieces right now...and of course, Diaz and finally Dunning, who has great control and is expected to move quite quickly up the ladder as an advanced college pitcher.

Now Renteria must be experiencing deja vu. The big question is who manages the next White Sox playoff team. Cleveland won't be able to hold their window open for more than two more years, three tops. And we're far ahead of the rest of the division in jumpstarting in two days...not to mention the pot of gold tv revenues that no other divisional team will have access to. This young team will be a much easier sell than the 2013-2016 version.