caulfield12

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 11:36 PM) True, he'd be worth several more wins at his potential, but for upgrading the lineup significantly we lost our ace. The goal is improving significantly at the expense of losing now. I'd be very disappointed if Moncada is the only player to come out from the deal. Another way to look at this...if you clear Shields/Cabrera/Abreu/Robertson/Frazier from the payroll, you basically become the Padres or Marlins (minus Stanton's mega contract) and are in the running for any player in baseball, theoretically. Otani, the Japanese pitcher, for example. Of course, it depends on his arrival date, 2020 seems a long ways off, but there are only 3 seasons to get there (and to the new broadcasting rights deal and that influx of higher revenues, hopefully). They once said they were willing to go after an ace like (in his prime, which is obviously Sale as well) Tanaka or even Shark (who's clearly not an ace), so if they do clear the decks over the next 12-18 months, then there's no reason they can't simply buy one on the open market. Of course, they're also going to get two Top 5 picks (likely), and then you already have Rodon (who SHOULD progress), Burdi, Hansen and Kopech with top of the rotation ability. So it's going to have to come from one of those three ways...or the stockpiling of minor league talent and flipping it for a pitcher at some point down the road.

As things currently stand, though...Shields and Gonzalez are currently insurance to protect Fulmer next season (as well as not having to rush Burdi/Kopech/Hansen). Guess we have to wait and see what prospects we get back. Giolito, for example, probably would have been inserted into the rotation from Opening Day had he been traded to the Sox. We still have some other prospects or fading ones in Adams, Jordan Stephens, Tyler Danish, Beck, Ynoa, Kahnle, etc., that can soak up innings in the race to the Top 5 draft pick.

Is Eaton the player you want leading your franchise moving forward? That's the main question. The so-called, Face of the Franchise? As for me, I would go with Anderson/Q/Rodon/Abreu (for now), but then we're going to have to turn around and trade some of those guys. It could also be Frazier if he showed an interest in sticking around through a rebuild, but he just went through that in Cincinnati so one would think he'd be looking for some stability. As far as Eaton goes, yes, he's the union rep for the team...but is that because nobody else wanted to compete with him for it (someone like Avila or Rollins?), or is he really that well-liked or popular in the clubhouse? Does he have that unique ability of Juan Uribe to be equally-liked by Latin American and African-American as well as white teammates? Or is he part of a clique?

The odds of Eaton going to the Cardinals are about zero without Reyes...and Reyes isn't going anywhere. Even it was, let's say Martinez and Wong/Grichuk/Piscotty/Adams, well, they're just not going to trade two pieces off their big league roster to get better at one when they just traded Garcia and god knows how long Wainright and Molina will last, not to mention Peralta. Isn't St. Louis in on Wade Davis/Lorenzo Cain in a possible mega-trade with KC? Who are the rumored pieces in that deal? Renting both those guys for a single season.

Pederson, Alvarez and 2-3 lower pieces for Q at least starts to get interesting.

A lot of people will disagree, but it would be cool to have Moncada on it. That said, Eaton/Q/Anderson/Rodon are the best remaining choices, along with Abreu. Two of those first four might be gone by July, so we really need to come up with a combination of players who will at least make it to 2017 with the White Sox. Or you could go with Kopech, Burdi, Nate Jones and the Nasty Boys II Theme...perhaps. Another option would be having the 11 players most likely to be gone and XXXing them out when traded. Q, Eaton, Jones, Cabrera, Frazier, Robertson, Abreu, M.Gonzalez, Shields, Lawrie, Avi.

Yep, lost is the hype from the Trump side was the fact that 700-800 jobs were moving regardless...they (Carrier) weren't going to invest in all that infrastructure/logistics development in Mexico and then turn around and abandon it all of a sudden. One positive, though, about Carrier is that they actually have a progressive training program (corporate-sponsored) that might end up being a model or template for moving lower-level workers to sustainable employment opportunities in the future if they are made redundant. Theoretically, 25-50% of workers could continue on with the company, as an engineer or tech specialist/analyst, for example. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/06/amazon-go-s...hoo&ref=yfp How will Trump stop Amazon Go from costing jobs?

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:02 PM) I get the nuance of saying "like Basabe", but that particular dude hit .258 in A ball. I would say " like Tilson" long before I'd say "like Basabe". Still, but for now, I'm much more optimistic about another team's Latin American prospects developing...since it has been nearly two decades since our last two impact position players from that region of the world. Not being optimistic or hopeful at all, that's been our condition for going on a decade now. So why not at least be 50% optimistic? One thing we can be 100% sure about is that we weren't about to overspend (again) in a terrible FA market, leaving another half-baked +/- 5 games of .500 team again.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 05:31 PM) In what world is Moncads's jersey number continuity needed in a thread about Quintana trade rumors? See post 98. Then put it into the Moncada ones. Heaven forbid having the first really young position player since Beckham (Anderson was unfairly lost in the shuffle last year, with the season falling apart) that White Sox fans could get that excited about. So that's two Moncada jerseys sold already, just in this thread alone.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) I get the Carrier deal is less than ideal, and Trump is obviously playing the game and getting rewarded for doing it (something I would actually give his team/campaign credit for...I honestly didn't think they had the skills to do something like that). Howeva, I have to say, the response is kind of funny. That tax break move to keep jobs home isn't anything new. Illinois has done it for decades. Caterpillar a few times, Exelon just recently. And while it's not some great fix and i'm not really a fan of it personally, the cost is negligible. I read it was like $870 per job "saved." That pays for itself in income taxes in one year alone. Yes, and the cost of a trade war/tariff on incoming Chinese tires (under Obama, this happened already) made saving those jobs (in terms of lost consumer surplus) cost roughly $900,000 for each job preserved. Not exactly an efficient tradeoff.

You would think for as big as Moncada's going to be, they would hold the same jersey number in Charlotte and make it clear from today he'll have that same number with the Sox when he's called up. Did Under Armour get the jersey deal for minor leaguers too...or will it still be Majestic until 2020? Other than Eaton, I can't think of anyone who will be in the vicinity in terms of jersey sales for the next year or two. Anderson, Kopech and Burdi...the other possibilities. Fans have sort of moved on from Abreu after 2014-15 already. Of course, we'll have even more exciting names to speculate about if Q and Eaton both go.

Still don't see the logic when a Gomez or Tilson can hold the spot before a natural CFer like Basabe takes over in 2019. Maybe we get Robles, too? We left Anderson at SS instead of moving him to CF and that worked out fine. Let him find one comfortable position on the infield before we end up moving him to yet another position. Plus watching him and Anderson together will be a scout's dream, barring any injuries. About the best argument is protecting him from injuries (in the middle of the diamond), and we've seen our share in the outfield (Jared Mitchell, Schwarber, Avi, Tilson, Rowand, etc.) as well.

What is Moncada's jersey number going to be with the Sox? Press conference scheduled, or is he out of the country? You would think with season ticket renewals going out that they'd try to milk Moncada for all he's worth, along with Anderson and Rodon. Yeah, and after 2018, they'll have a much better idea where they at in the rebuilding process. Serious players...not for Harper and Machado, but the next tier is certainly a possibility.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:46 PM) Yeah but if the offers are really 95% of the Sale offers, then I don't know how competitive that kind of offer is. What would you expect? No GM can easily sell him as an ace...so he's not going to get Giolito and Robles together, as much as his peripherals and contract might merit it. 95% seems just about fair. You were never going to get 100% on Q or Eaton, anyway.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2...DKdO/story.html Trade from the Boston/DD perspective...not sure where they're getting four vs. three years of control, though. http://www.espn.com/blog/keith-law/post/_/...hris-sale-trade Apparently Keith Law is a fan of the trade, going by the headline (insider article). Definitely weird to see Shields, Cabrera, Abreu, Robertson and Frazier as the five biggest Sox contracts at Cot's.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) Dude, the first trade was made. There is really no way you can predict any of what you are talking about until the offseason is over. And cashing in on Abreu being the biggest Cuban star? come on man, nobody cares. If people really cared to come out to see Abreu Cabrera Frazier and Eaton than they would have Except the White Sox organization has always cared about marketing, attendance revenues, perception...you honestly believe all that institutional memory can disappear so quickly?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) I don't think the fans factor into this. There's no indication the Sox are stopping trading. There's been not one media report that this trade was made with 2017 in mind. It's pretty obvious a firesale is coming until we hear this trade was it and the Sox are shopping for 2 veteran starting pitchers. Except firesale connotes having to trade pieces for 50-75 cents on the dollar, like the Padres. The White Sox won't do that for anyone...with the possible exceptions of Shields, Robertson and Cabrera. Financially, they're not going to be forced into that position as the payroll keeps getting cut with each corresponding move or domino falling into place, so to speak.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/red-...ech-two-others/ Besides, Baseball America is already projecting Moncada having a decent chance to break camp with the Sox. It's probably 50/50 he's the Opening Day 2B and leadoff or second place hitter (if Eaton's still around).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) He contradicts himself unless Abreu is supposed to go to Charlotte. Keep Moncada in the minors but have him develop a bond with Abreu. And how long do you think they'll keep him in Charlotte? They don't spend six or seven weeks together in spring training? Last year, I remember reading story after story about how Rollins was going to mentor Anderson. I didn't see that Anderson and Rollins would be playing together at Charlotte, either. Abreu is the biggest Cuban/Cuban-American star, after the death of Jose Fernandez. At the very least, he's right up there with Cespedes (and with Puig's descent). And Moncada is supposed to be the next great Cuban star, with comps stretching from ARod to a poor man's Mike Trout. Who would be better for him to be around? Plus, we now have a manager the Latin American players will be more comfortable and be able to communicate more openly with. They're really going to trade him for some B level Rockie when they just brought in Moncada? And if they deal Abreu, Cabrera, Eaton and Frazier...who are the fans going to want to come out and see? Holding onto Abreu at least until July makes sense unless another team just bowls you over.

Isn't that what message boards are for? How many White Sox fans honestly expect Q, Eaton, Jones and Cabrera to all be traded before July 31st? That's not even considering Frazier, Robertson and Abreu (yet).

I know you're going to tempted to argue that Moncada and Collins injected into the line-up makes you competitive the second half of 2017. Or that Burdi is ready to be a big league closer. BUT...No. It doesn't. We have no real CFer, DH or ace any longer. Do the prudent thing and let Moncada, Collins, Burdi, Kopech and Basabe develop. Be patient, for once. It's extremely important to determine if Collins can stick as a catcher...rather than rushing his bat as a DH/1B and trying to preserve his health. The premium value comes from his being able to catch decently AND be a plus hitter at that position. Then you have 3 solutions up the middle, and a possible 4th in Basabe for CF in 2019. Look to trade Eaton, Q, Nate Jones and Melky at their peak respective values with the White Sox if the right deals come along. Don't accept anything less than fair deals, obviously. Hold Abreu and see the chemistry with him and Moncada until at least July. He seems to be a good mentor, from all we know about him. Jose, if he has another first half like he ended 2016, becomes a much more coveted piece. His value is still down, now. It's also easier to imagine him sticking around, on the other hand. Frazier and Robertson, hold and wait on a rebound...look to trade in July, decide if Frazier might be a long-term stabilizing force to keep in the fold, do you get more back immediately from a trade or go through the QO process? Extend? Depends on what pieces are left from Q/Eaton. Does Trey M. make any progress? But Robertson goes with the first/best offer. Fulmer is the obvious choice for the rotation spot at the moment. Do not rush Burdi. Give him at least one full season in the minors starting. Same with Kopech, and Hansen, for that matter. If someone blows you away with an offer for Gonzalez, great. If not, he is a rotation place holder. Same with Shields, who's seemingly a sunk cost at this point but might have some value yet. Let Tilson, Lawrie/Garcia (DH) play and see what you can get out of those latter two or move on. Right now, Saladino's going to have 2-3 months of regular at-bats at second until Moncada's deemed ready.

The last time the Sox had an exciting minor league system was 2009, especially Birmingham the first half that year. And can someone interview Getz now, haha? The pressure on him just increased by a factor of 5x.

You can understand why they had to keep Devers...certainly can't rely on Sandoval there long-term, if at all.

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) Turner hit .342 in significant big league action. Moncada was sixty points shy of that in the minors. I know BA is kinda lame, buy isn't that just too stark to ignore? A lot of his success came against the sorry Braves. Raw Latin American prospects vs. more polished collegiate hitters drafted in the first round, hard to make comparisons. And Turner was never available, from all reports. Considering Harper will walk in two years, that's understandable enough.

Let's see where Devers, Robles and Basabe are three years from now. White Sox BA Top Ten just added three top five or six guys now. With Moncada, Collins and Basabe...three guys who could be real impact hitters. Then Kopech, Burdi, Fulmer and Hansen are all at least intriguing. At the bery least, we're stockpiling the best future bullpen in the game.