caulfield12

Arrieta? Soler? Strop? Hector Rondon was Rule 5 from CLE.

We always talk about OTHER managers and try to apply that by osmosis to Ventura. According to that "The Only Rule Is It Has to Work" book, any manager over age 48 risks a generation gap with his players (Maddon seems to be the exception again). Robin's right in that borderline area, between this generation's Millennials and the 80's/90's Gen Xers. I will say he's very good at maintaining an even keel and almost never losing his composure. Bland with the media, especially in comparison with Maddon (maybe that's a net minus from a marketing standpoint, but not his main job). Not sure what else is he is good at, to be honest. He probably grades out as average or below average in all those categories like strategy, motivational techniques, bullpen usage, etc. I'm not sure any opposing team is CONCERNED about being outmanaged by Robin compared to the feeling we might be outmanaged by one of our opponents (and that's a bias a lot of fanbases have, grass is always greener or backup QB syndrome.) Perhaps the other managers like Gardenhire, Leyland, Francona, Scioscia, Maddon are better because we keeping hearing about them being better in the media? OTOH, I don't think ANYONE who's regularly posted in the gamethreads over the last 4+ seasons rates him as even an above-average manager and worries about losing him to another organization. And it was an insult to the fanbase, in a way...that they didn't want to hire a more experienced guy. At least Ausmus and Matheny were catchers and always aspired to managing. Same with AJ Hinch (came out of the front office), for that matter.

Maddon's TB teams were not untalented. Crawford, BJ Upton, Zobrist and Longoria. All the young pitching in the world. Especially those teams in 2008-10. What set him apart was his use of platoons and turning borderline AAAA players into Jeff Keppingers. He got the most he possibly could out of his roster. Getting the last TB team he took to the playoffs, IMO, was his best managing job of all, especially with all the financial powerhouses in that AL East to contend with. It's all about the wine, mimes and glasses.

The bottom of the line-up with Lawrie (big homer Monday, otherwise...), Garcia, catcher and Jackson. Pretty darned corpsey. If that's word. Potentially better than Mark Johnson and Royce Clayton. (Of course, we had at least 5-6 mashers who could jack 20+ homers at that time, so that offset the two automatic outs).

Well, realistically, there weren't many teams willing to pay $27.5 million or whatever it was. And LaRoche was still on the payroll then. Finally, no guarantee he puts up those same numbers for us (obviously, he did for the Tigers, though). However, the Tigers could make the same argument (Cespedes over Upton), the Royals (over Gordon, which has fizzled) or imagine him playing with Brantley, Kipnis, Santana, Lindor, Ramirez and Gomes...that would be an explosive offense. Cespedes on any of the AL Central teams gives them the division, in all probability.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 25, 2016 -> 06:53 PM) Just face it. It won't get better until this team is gutted from the top down. They don't invest in an experienced manager. Somewhere former players who step in to manage their team should realize you will be remembered as the hated manager and forgotten as the great player. I do wonder if the Sox are the only organization who asked someone to become a manager with that person having no intent of getting back into baseball. Even a guy like Frank Thomas were to become manager we would probably not like him either. I no longer want Sox retreads. It hasn't boosted the teams popularity. I don't think former players should ever manage the team they play for. It's the best way to crap on your legacy. The patterns of incompetence year after year are the fault at the top. We can't change this. So my interest in the team is challenged. I dislike everything White Sox except for Sox Talk. It's the only thing that keeps me interested. I so want new ownership and someone way outside the organization. Most successful owners are very good at handsoff. They also don't allow things as nepotism and employ their buddies. It's difficult for a major league team to lose money these days. I want an owner who wants to win but without a Jerry Jones ego. I want one who tries to get the best scouts and instructors. Those would be evaluated by performance. We see the same mistakes like being clueless at baseball, folding under pressure and yet those people in the organization remain. I feel duped thinking it may be different this year and I know there's a lot of baseball left but how many times will it take for Charlie Brown to realize not to try to kick the football? I feel like this team is cursed. The nice start most likely was due to new players on the field. But one they get assimilated into that Sox uniform they become a Sox and it's downhill after that. This is a mystery I can't solve. I think back when Thomas, Alexi, and Beckham (you can even go back to Thad Bosley) came up. When was the last time a guy from the minors brought excitement to the team? Now it's boneheaded mistakes like bad base running or misplaying a fly ball or the typical exhibit of mental weakness. The only hope I can see if there's a complete change in the top otherwise we will see more of this. 2014 Abreu 2009 Beckham 2008 Alexei/Carlos Quentin (probably would have been MVP if not missing the final month, self-inflicted) 2007 Josh Fields 2000's Rowand/Crede (although far from instant sensations) Then you have Konerko/Magglio/CLee all coming up together, a year or two after Ray Durham. I was quite excited when they signed Viciedo. Didn't last, and it took him 4 years to really make an impact. I was super excited when they traded for Sosa and Alvarez (but rued not getting Juan Gone). On the pitching side, well...I'm not going to go there. Obviously Sale in 2010. Rodon last year. Many examples dating back to the late 80's/early 90's such as McDowell, Fernandez and Alvarez. Garland in 2001 (although not a strikeout pitcher). Kip Wells in 1999. Contreras in 2005/06 when he was a roll like Sale before last night's game and clearly the best pitcher in the game. Loaiza in 2003 until the final month. Heck, even Shingo Takatsu in 2004/05 with the gong and then Jenks was awesome for 2-3 years before fading.

Rollins can hit 2nd against LHP. That's it. The problem is Jackson/Saladino aren't suited for the 2 hole, Lawrie K's too much but has the higher OBP. Slumping, though. Cabrera there, Abreu/Frazier lose all their protection and just get walked. Want nothing to do with Avi in that spot. Only solution...Adam Engel, lol. Carlos Sanchez probably has the best match, but he just can't hit enough to keep a regular playing spot, and playing part-time his contact rate starts to fall. I know, I know...everyone thinks Tim Anderson can just come up and magically hold his own there. We'll see.

Coming into this season, MAYBE. Right now, pretty doubtful. For one of the best young catchers in the game, that could easily shift the balance in any divisional race. Think of this from the perspective of a Brewers' fan. Would you be happy with that deal, when you can see how much Miller, Giles and Kimbrel, for example, were worth (yes, different contract situations)...but he's their most valuable asset and trade chip and they don't have to trade him because they're in good shape financially. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12492794...roy-needs-raise I'm dumping Braun's deal on the first taker (Cubs/Angels) and locking up Lucroy to a long-term deal with those savings...building the core of my team around him going forward.

The only way to have Lucroy on your team is NOT having Anderson to bring up because he was just traded. UNLESS the White Sox were also willing to take on all of Ryan Braun's contract as well...which you know JR will never do. What would be your proposed trade that DOESN'T involve Anderson? Fulmer for a rental? Hahn won't do that.

Lillian, maybe if he had stayed with the Twins throughout that entire time, it would be a maybe. He'd at least be familiar with all the AL personnel and have a book on them. IMO, too long in the NL West and too far removed from Central style of play.

That last run was 40% on Navarro for the lazy back-handed attempt to block a ball he should have gotten in front of...the next batted ball in play down the line that went through Frazier (20%) and ended up being ruled a triple, and then another 40% to Melky for playing it so lackadaisically. We're allowing hitters there that never in a million years should have triples at USCF to get them. Unearned. And yet another microcosm inning of the last 15 games, which turned out to be the deciding margin. 14/75 with RISP the last ten home games. .187. High 400's OPS as a rh batter, slumping Gordon Beckham-esque.

Lillian, please refer to Kendrys Morales when he missed the first two months of the 2014 season because of the QO. Lost cause trying to get him back in hitting condition and throwing him into the heat of a pennant race. It would be not unlike the Manny Ramirez deal in 2010.

Let's see. Sandberg as manager. Rafael Palmeiro as hitting coach, Greg Maddux to replace Cooper. Andre Dawson outfield/baserunning coach, asst. hitting instructor. Sosa can do something if Man-Ram can with the Cubs. Maybe Rick Sutcliffe or Joe Carter can have roles as well. That would at least annoy Cubs' fans. Lou Brock and Fergie Jenkins as ambassadors to replace Skowron and Minoso, too.

Sabremetrics. Best hitter should bat 2nd philosophy.

Drake LaRoche would be another option. Since apparently school isn't cool or fun. And Harold Baines as manager would have the quietest press conferences of any manager in MLB history. What was that again, Harold?

Yeah, someone wrote the last time a Sox manager was fired by a GM who hadn't hired him was 1981... I was working with the Pirates at that time (94-95) and at least missed the angst of the playoffs being cancelled because I was too busy. Lamont was subsequently hired by Pittsburgh (Leyland connection) and spent quite a bit of time with GreenJackets scouting/consulting/observing. I specifically never mentioned anything about the White Sox because I knew it would be a sore subject and too recent, but he was super nice and chatted about a lot of other things. He really enjoyed YMCA, even though we played that damn song over and over again, and the Macarena. He was gracious enough to sign the framed Tribune cover I had with Bo Jackson on the cover from when the Sox won the division in 1993. Lots of fun times at Hooters with him and Jeff Banister and Chuck Tanner's son Bruce. Joe Posnanski (one of my favorite sports writers of all-time) was there as well and would soon leave for greener pastures in KC. Mike Berardino also, think he's in Minneapolis now, worked for BA prior to Augusta. Finally, Rocky Bridges, who was ancient as hell but still working for the Pirates...he had the best stories of any coach/former player I've ever met, could have put Harrelson to shame. Has one of the all-time classic Topps baseball cards, too. Can't remember, it was a 1950's one, I think with Indians.

We have fielding talent, lol. Jackson, Sanchez, Saladino, C.Rondon...just not the necessary combination of both offensive/defensive talent.

Reminds me of the time when Viciedo was lighting up AAA pitching and everyone was clamoring for him to come up and replace Ozzie's "buddy" Juan Pierre.

Hire the Chinese for that project (due to their "expertise" in the South China Sea)...they can do the high speed rail line too, haha, since they're theoretically working on the Vegas to LA line. At least we have some "out of the box" thinking here tonight.

We won't still be in first place if that happens, Greg. We could even be a 4th place team by the end of the road trip. Interest level...approaching 2014-15 levels, with the 100,000 tickets sold in the last month mostly going unused (staying home to root for every team facing Arrieta to break that 23 game streak of consecutive wins when he starts, lol) or ending up resold for KW's 50 cents on the dollar at StubHub.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ May 25, 2016 -> 04:47 PM) You have the "Fire Robin" part right. But really, until they do something about the brainchild of this organization, Kenny Williams and his whopping 2 playoff appearances in 16 seasons despite an above avg payroll, nothing changes. Hahn is Williams, Williams is Hahn. Don't trust either one of them, really. Hahn's perfectly fine negotiating contract extensions and with the business/administrative side and will never do anything to embarrass the organization in terms of PR like KW, but talent evaluation? Not really his forte. You can't give Hahn credit for Eaton and Abreu and then turn around and overlook 75% of the remaining moves that have backfired and put this organization more and more behind the 8 ball. I'm not even sure you can applaud him for the Shark deal or Frazier if we don't get to the playoffs in the next two years...especially if everyone was wrong in their assessment of Trayce Thompson. Time will tell on that front. Holding on to that draft pick is turning out to be a critical error (see Bob Nightengale article at USA Today about Fowler) error as well. Being stubborn to show SOMETHING for the Shark deal isn't helping us when we really need it, at the MLB level, RIGHT NOW.

Has a first place team ever fired their manager during the season? The only one that strikes me as close is Ned Yost in Milwaukee...but that was nearing the end of the season. And "first place" by 1/2 game at the moment feels more like it will be 3-5 games back on June 28th after being up 6/7/8 games coming into the bottom of the 8th inning in Texas with an 11-6 lead.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-don...WQDBHNlYwNzYw-- What was the thing about turning down a charity event/appearance? All the dirty laundry coming out now in the offseason. Bet Hoiberg wishes he stayed at ISU, well, except for that fat contract. But was it really worth it in the end to leave being the Mayor of Ames to being ridiculed, second-guessed and undermined in Chicago?

This road trip to KC, NYM and Detroit is going to be huge. The White Sox IMO wouldn't have released John Danks if they weren't off to such a great start and occupying first place. They would have muddled along like the last 3 years. It has been quite some time since the days of Bevington, Lamont and LaRussa being fired in the middle of a season. That said, it just depends on how long this 4-11 "slump" continues. Obviously, we've let all three of our main opponents back into the AL Central race when the Tigers and Royals were on the verge of being buried. They're going to be playing before large crowds in three very hostile environments. Yet, for whatever reason, the White Sox have tended to play fairly well on the road and inexplicably haven't defended the home field well at all, other than stretches of 2008, 2010 and somewhat in 2012. Maybe they need that excitement and energy of being the underdog and being left for dead to get going again. For whatever reason, White Sox teams can't stand success very well when they are front-runners with higher expectations and manage to put themselves in a situation nearly every time where they have to battle back.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 25, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) Mark: How important is the manager. I thought hiring Robin was dumb because he had zero experience. You say you want a ML manager w a proven track record. I submit 2 current names John Farrell--- was well respected pitching coach w Francona. Goes to Toronto and has 2 mediocre seasons of sub .500 baseball. Hired by Red Sox and wins World Series in first year. Next year w virtually the same team finished dead last. last year struggle again and then he is forced to leave for health problems. Interim manager comes in and Sox improve over last 2 months. Takes over this season and Red Sox at this point are playing very good baseball. My take---the team play determines his success since his career as a manager is a roller-coaster. Ned Yost---manager for Brewers for 5 years w sub .500 record and no post season appearances. He is fired and hired in 2010 by Royals. In 5+ years w Royals he has a sub-500 record but a 22-9 record in postseason and a WS win. Two guys who managed losing teams were rehired and have won a World Series and both are still sub 500 career managers. I think the team is much more important than the manager or his track record before he is hired. Yes, we've heard this before. Tony LaRussa, Jim Leyland in Colorado, Bobby Cox and Joe Torre all "looked" like bad managers before when they had crappy talent. Ozzie said this over and over and over again. Joe Girardi in Florida, etc. I still would argue that sabremetrics doesn't have a clue yet how to measure the intangible/s of what separate a good manager from a great one, anymore than it can measure clubhouse chemistry/cliques. Say what you want about the Twins from 2001-2010, the Tigers from 2011-2014 or the Royals really the last three seasons, they all share/d that trust/conviction/belief that they're the best team and will end up winning in the end...or simply apply constant pressure on other teams and make their opponents beat themselves, in the case of the Twins and Royals.