caulfield12

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 20, 2016 -> 12:16 PM) http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...0220-story.html I like what Duquette says in this article. Provides a bit of insight into what negotiations are like with players such as Desmond, Fowler and Gallardo that aren't to tier but have comp picks attached to them. Doesn't sound like Fowler to the Orioles is a done deal either. Sounds like Baltimore fans are going through what we Sox fans have already been through with the Fowler rumors. Minus the fact they have the best cumulative record in the AL over the last four seasons. Although I'm sure they are a bit concerned with too many all or nothing types when you add Trumbo and the uncertainty of a Korean hitter into the mix. Still can't believe Davis' deal is almost $100 million more than Abreu and Jose's much closer to his prime.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Feb 20, 2016 -> 12:14 PM) But he's our asshole! Anyone else slightly concerned about the Sox rotation depth? Beck is coming back from ulnar nerve transposition offseason surgery (I have no clue if that's serious or not) and now Latos is possibly going to miss opening day. Other than Johnson, the Sox rotation depth looks absolutely terrible. Are Carroll, Turley, Haviland, and Sherik really the options they are left with? You can't count on guys like Danish or Guerrero because they most likely not ready yet (especially Danish). I have no clue who those last three are....Charlie Shirek, Bob Turley and Olivia de Haviland? Well, they do have Aumont as well. For what that's worth, probably not much. Edit: forgot about Turner. And here all along the diminished velocity/stuff rumors seemed to be the biggest issues of the last couple of years, as he also had shoulder problems. One could surmise he hurt his knee by compensating trying to get more hop on his fastball. That and he's a pretty big guy, lots of additional stress on the knees/legs/ankles.

How did he pass his physical?

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/team/depth_chart/?c_id=tb Jennings and Guyer are their obvious luxuries to carry on the roster, Jennings more from a salary and injury standpoint. Nick Franklin is another. Who is Pena? I hope not Carlos again. And you counted Desmond Jennings twice.

If Hawkins lived up to the hype we'd still be in the middle of the pack...but the bust rate just seems so much higher for hs and under 21 Latin American prospects compared to more polished college hitters.

Since CarGo's continued presence was used as leverage with Parra and they already dealt Dickerson to TB, not seeing the logic here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 06:36 PM) Maybe, but they wouldn't be trading for them. They would be trading for a 2 month rental. 2 years ago, Johnson was a prospect in the 60s. Yes, and so were Avi and Hawkins...but that doesn't provide much surplus value at the present moment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix...ling-the-truth/ Please pass this onto the RNC. They should just make one ad with this video sequence and play it over for the general election in every state one million times.

Could you trade Erik Johnson for Manaea and Aaron Brooks today? At worst, as a prospect, Manaea is in that same 75-100 range as Montas...although a lot of scouts are more bullish on his long-term starting potential. Already, that's a higher cost than Adams.

I remember them saying the same about Andruw Jones before 2010...and Thome before 2006. He actually was the least of the White Sox problems, although he did fade in the second half.

Isn't the competition for Ethier likely to pick up between now and then based on spring training injuries? It doesn't feel like that deal comes closer to fruition the nearer they get to Opening Day. Let's put it this way...when is the last time that we can remember a core player being traded at that time by a contending team? Most importantly, we don't have a willingness to trade our top three prospects to shave Ethier's deal down to reasonable salary terms.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 05:07 PM) I think we all get a little more worked up than we should, this team should be better and if the bullpen and rotation hold, should contend. Take the 2015 Royals. They were contending with one of the worst rotations in baseball, Rios in Rf, and Infante at 2nd most of the season. They upgraded for sure, and probably wouldn't have won without the upgrade, but there were some bums in that line up a good part of the season. I just think we see obvious available chances to make the team better, and so far they seem to have passed on all. It is easy to frustrate. The key difference is they had the minor league depth to go all-in and trade their equivalents of Anderson, Fulmer and Adams for Zobrist and Cueto. Is that the type of move that we (can or) should expect at the trade deadline this year when the Sox are bunched in the wild card pack with 7-8 other teams and no clear direction to go in again?

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 04:23 PM) I usually agree with the general consensus on this board, but apparently I'm in the minority that I'm overall happy with the off season. Would I like and upgrade at RF and/or SS? Of course that would be nice, but we have upgraded pretty massively at 2B, 3B, and C. Not to mention signing Latos for next to nothing and adding more depth to the bullpen. How much more can you realistically expect to happen in 1 off season? I personally love that Hahn is being smart and not giving in to the player demands. There are so many FA's still out there that I'm sure would like to be playing this season and earning a contract. There is no reason to give in to their demands and pay them what they want. I'm fine with running Saladino out there for 1 season. We have Anderson waiting in the wings and we will have him hopefully at SS for league minimum for years. When it comes to RF, I think it'd be dumb to give Fowler a 4 year deal or close to a $50 million dollar contract, while giving up the 28th overall pick in the draft at the same time. When it comes down to it, I'm not an Avi supporter, but I understand giving him 1 more season to see if he can put it together like the Sox thought he could when they acquired him. I think the way to build a winner is to find the bargains in FA and build from within. I do see that plan in place at the moment. Before anyone says it, I realize we have traded many prospects in our top 25 from last season, but let's be honest, who are we really going to miss? Montas maybe if he ever stays healthy. Other than that I'd be surprised if they amount to much in the majors. The problem is Hahn did the complete opposite of that with LaRoche, Cabrera, Duke, Robertson and Bonifacio (overpaying)...so now it feels like they're way overcorrecting in the other direction and becoming timid. (Not going to waste time arguing the Samardzija deal again.) In order to compete when there's so much parity, you need to be excellent in 2-3 areas, like pitching, speed, defense, bullpen, line-up balance, fundamentals, manager/coaches maximizing talent, etc. As it stands right now, our only real advantage is starting pitching and the bullpen. That and the historical record of staying healthier, which doesn't feel like it can hold up indefinitely. It's probably reasonable to argue this is about the best they could have done without the budget constraints. On the other hand, Hahn made a series of mostly terrible moves last offseason, so he's at least partially to blame for the financial predicament. The sad thing here is the boos will undoubtedly go to Avi and Ventura and not Hahn if it blows up again.

Yeah, Viciedo in 2012 was much better than Cabrera last year...2013-14, not so much, but you expect either a significant offensive OR defensive upgrade for $14 million or so per season. And Avi was projected because of his "tool box" to be a possibility for CF.

I thought Nava and Gentry were going to be the LF platoon...?

Yeah, pretty surprising "modern day" Chicago baseball writers are still referencing total error totals after the infamous Valentin/Clayton debates of 15 years ago. Back then, much of the argument was about total chances and non-errors when runners were safe because of the way Clayton fielded or (usually) threw the ball with little on it.

In all fairness, Alexei Ramirez was compared to utility guys like Ramon Santiago coming out of Cuba. So he and Abreu are two huge reasons that Cuban market is now overscouted and analyzed compared to ten years ago. And no doubt there has been a lot of high expectations for guys like Viciedo, Rusney Castillo, Alex Guerrero and Tomas who haven't delivered...at least not as projected.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 18, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) And Juan Gonzalez even had a history of being that good. It's hard to know, but maybe his body started breaking down much earlier due to steroid use...? Of course, typically players are able to extend their careers, but a lot of them started juicing in their late 20s or early 30s. At any rate, it's not a coincidence that Ruben Sierra, Gonzalez and Sosa all came out of the Rangers' organization in that same generation of players.

So we're supposed to believe they only offered four years to Gordon primarily due to the White Sox? What evidence is there to support that? After all, KC gave $20 million more than any team in the majors was willing to bid on Ian Kennedy, and they gave him five years, so why would it be a surprise their own homegrown player who they're even more familiar with ended up with four? Heck, Ben Zobrist is 3-4 years older and still received four guaranteed years from the Cubs. Can one argue the whole plan for the offseason after mid December was just to raise years and total FA dollars for other teams? Sounds like a strategy of sorts, except the Indians and Twins aren't spending and the Tigers especially can outbid everyone when they choose to do so. And, in the end, the Royals will be terrible in 2018 and 2019 whether they have Gordon or not.

Was it the Orioles or Nats trying to defer a significant part of that salary on the back-end for Cespedes?

Not getting how now we're retroactively saying the talent to begin last season was so bad and that we're also simultaneously well more than one more player away from contending. Can't be both. Pick a lane and stay with it. With all the parity in the AL, muddling through is not going to get it done. Waiting for the obvious rebuilding teams or Astros/Dodgers to make trades in July is also riskier because more mid-market teams are willing to take two month financial risks and/or have the talent in the minors to part with (let's say the Twins go out and rent a stud starter to put them over the top). If we're in a situation where we can add 2-3 war quite affordably NOW and that's still not enough after all the moves we made, why start down that road in the first place? So we can argue for another 2-3 months that White Sox fans are more responsible than the front office for this state of affairs? Are there are any AL teams that we couldn't imagine strongly contending by adding Desmond/Fowler/Gallardo (two of the three, based on need)? In our division, with two teams 100% going for it over the next two seasons and two more teams with better farm systems and the ability to be patient one more year (especially Minnesota), this plan is just pretty dubious. I guess if it's a similar situation to anyone, it's probably Cleveland. The primary difference is we have 25-30% more budget leeway than the Indians because our ability to generate revenue is that much higher due to the Chicago media market. Once again, though, being in the middle and 500ish is not the place to be...where it still feels like constant rebuilding (rather than contending consistently) without admitting that semantic fact openly.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Feb 18, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) They don't need Ethier. The Dodgers also have Thompson, Van Slyke, and Hernandez out there. One of them has to go. I wonder what the asking price for Puig is. Would you trust those three if you're Friedman? Probably more than Avi, but how likely are the Dodgers to subsidize his salary and create a parallel hole at the same time? Better to eat even more of Crawford's deal, probably.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 18, 2016 -> 08:14 AM) I was hoping they'd trade Soler and bring back Fowler. Soler is the x factor for them in my opinion, as he has the potential to become a dominant offensive force for them in the 6 spot. They might be better off with him hitting 7th ahead of Russell and after Montero. Take all the pressure off and let him relax.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Feb 18, 2016 -> 08:11 AM) I really think they should just go back to the Dodgers about an Ethier trade and platoon him with Avi. Even that would be a big upgrade for this team. The Dodgers need him as insurance for Puig, Pederson and Crawford. He was their best all-around outfielder the second half of the season. Plus, he's very expensive...and aging. Too much to pay for a platoon bat.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...213-column.html Basically, the Orioles are/were in the same situation the White Sox are in...although the key difference is they have the best record in the AL over the past four years. By bringing back Davis, Wieters, O'Day and now looking to add two more big pieces in addition to Trumbo and Kim...they're also sending a huge signal to Machado in terms of signing him to a huge extension. Payroll for the O's would be around $150 million, pretty close to where the White Sox would have been adding Fowler and Desmond.