caulfield12

Just hope Votto doesn't start 2017 like he did 2016 or all the talk will be about a sell off again...with Frazier, Cabrera and Robertson if he's still around. Why retooling isn't so easy... Alex Gordon $12 million Joakim Soria $7 million Chris Young $4.25 million That gets you a 0.0 WAR for $23.25 million and still on the hook for $85.25 million. Jason Vargas $8.5 Kris Medlen $5.5 million Mike Minor $2 million That actually puts you into negative WAR for another $16 million this year, on the hook for another $14.25 million next. The point here is that you have a small market team with 1/3rd of their payroll producing negative WAR, basically all the players they added with this year's free agent class and the leftovers from past seasons' dumpster diving. So you have a combination of maybe the worst moves of ANY team in free agency...and yet they're still likely to finish above .500 and ahead of the White Sox. They were actually just two games back in the wild card hunt two weeks ago, before Joakim Soria turned into Matt Albers. And keeping in mind again they lost Moustakas, Gordon, Cain, Davis and Perez for significant stretches of the season. Are the odds favoring even more injuries and another set of atrocious free agent moves again this season?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) ??? The last 3-4 years on that deal. Let's just put it this way, the Rockies weren't going to trade their franchise player in CarGo for less than Fulmer, the Reds are going to want even more, especially as they've already dealt Frazier to the Sox and the hit to fans' morale with Votto leaving would be substantially higher. If you're a Reds' fan, you expect a future ace and more for the best homegrown player in a generation. What second player offered in a deal would be enticing enough, especially if we were expecting ANY money coming back? It's not like we can trade trade Collins, too. That would almost defeat the purpose of adding Votto because you have to get some more young impact hitters to replace Frazier and Cabrera coming up.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Who should win? Player A: 193.2 IP, 3.21 ERA, 3.46 FIP, 4.3 fWAR Player B: 197.2 IP, 3.05 ERA, 3.14 FIP, 5 fWAR Player C: 201.2 IP, 3.03 ERA, 3.43 FIP, 4.8 fWAR Player D: 186.2 IP, 3.04 ERA, 3.23 FIP, 5 fWAR Player E: 184 IP, 3.13 ERA, 3.41 FIP, 4.6 fWAR Going back to Andre Dawson in 1987 there's always been that debate that the Cy and MVP have to come from playoff contending teams unless the statistical dominance over the field is completely overwhelming voters have no choice. Sale winning over a Red Sox pitcher or even Verlander would be pretty shocking. The only thing more shocking would be Q.

God help the White Sox when the Pujols years of that contract come due...the hard thing is still leaving major holes in CF, catcher, back end of the rotation and bullpen. Couldn't have any injuries to key players in 2017.

Sponsors pulling money, boycotts threatened, etc.

It was also uncertainty of whether he could hold up defensively along with the surgery issue. And he looked Carlos Sanchez bad for much of last season offensively. The White Sox must have felt the same thing, because they gave regular at bats to Alexei down the stretch even knowing he was likely to be gone in the offseason.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 06:08 AM) He's going to be 33 next year with $192 mil owed until 2024, I don't see many teams wanting to trade for that unless it's the Yankees (rebuild of sorts), Boston (set with the young bats) Cubs (Rizzo is there and almost as good). The Dodgers might be the only competitor given Gonzalez is getting up there in age as well. I could see the Sox be savvy and include a 3rd team maybe. Although if they will go all in they're gonna have to trade from the little they do have. A contract of nealy three times the largest in club history for a 32-33 year old is just not going to happen...forgetting about the talent going from the Sox side being satisfactory or not.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 05:59 AM) Don't burn me at the stake here but if the Sox decide to go for it one more time how many people would be for going all in and trading for Votto? He has a mean slash line since the All Star break and plays a really good 1B, would supplant Abreu there and give u a middle of the order LH Bat. That coupled with a Tilson/Gomez wouldn't be bad. Eaton RF Anderson SS Abreu DH Votto 1B Melky LF Frazier 3B Gomez CF Avila/Narvaez C Saladino 2B That coupled with a 5th starter signing/acquisition really gives us a solid squad IMO. It would take a lot more than Fulmer to pry Votto loose...don't see an attractive enough package coming from the Sox side of things. 3 months ago, sure, but Votto's value has been restored fully again.

Axelrod poured some fuel onto the fire as well....

Carlos Sanchez would probably be given the job over Leury, but neither replacement would be ideal. The thing with Saladino is that they really need to send him to winter ball to play the outfield and see if he can become a Zobrist/Desmond/Whit Merrifield type who can play multiple infield positions and at least two outfield positions, if not all 3. That type of strategy has worked exceedingly well over the years in Tampa, with Maddon doing the same with Zobrist, Keppinger, Sean Rodriguez, Forsythe, etc. Josh Harrison, Martin Prado and Aviles are other examples that come to mind.

Kubo and the Two Strings is defintely Top Five movie of the year and hopefully gets Best Picture nom and can break out of simply the Best animated box...Beauty and the Beast was one of the last to pull that one off.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) Dye was studly that year. Also had above average hitting at a number of spots. Also team hit a ton of homers. No stiffs in the outfield trying to play D. Super starting and relief pitching. We had a lot of career pitching years come together. Pods wasn't much of a defender in 2005...because of his arm, he probably graded out slightly below average but he at least had the speed to make up for some mistakes. Much better his second time around with the Sox.

QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 07:42 AM) Ok, you got me on that one. Forgot about him. Haha...and LaRoche/Dunn weren't trades. But the point about DH's named Adam frm the NL still remains.

QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 06:32 AM) As much as I really dislike Ventura, hiring just another manager would not really have a quality impact of the Sox current situation. What the Sox really need to do is rebuild from within. Starting with their farm system. It seems their scouts and coaches seem to have a tough time evaluating talent. Occasionally you get a Tim Anderson but I have been questioning for a few years now about the scouts. Also, note to front office, stop trading for aging veterans who have already past their peak. And really stop signing players named Adam. Adam Eaton says hello.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 11:15 PM) Between stuff like this and Bill Clinton telling people at a rally that Make America Great Again is a racist term even though there are videos of him using it in three different campaigns, she is some how managing to Out-Trump, Trump. Slightly different context. Do all the Trump voters really want to have the price of their iphones and nearly every good at Wal-Mart increase by 45%? Because doing that will apparently bring back all those lost blue collar jobs that used to pay decent, liveable wages.

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-n...&yptr=yahoo Latos starting for the Nats this week...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/as-releas...-184720047.html Your 2017 "limited budget" DH is....Billy Butler. As to the last post, is there a willingness on the part of JR to eat another $22 million (making the Shields' acquisition look more foolhardy) to do the same things we've already wasted $25 million (Danks/Latos/Shields) on this season??? That's the question of the moment. Not whether they'll break out the checkbook for Cespedes, since there's a good chance he won't be available, and certainly a multi-year price tag COULD also scare the Sox away.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 07:08 PM) Welcome to rebuilding. These are the types of guys who will be playing for us. A lot. Or Konerko, Carlos Lee, Ray Durham, Magglio Ordonez and a #1 ranked farm system... Or Thomas, Ventura, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, Sammy Sosa, Wilson Alvarez, Scott Radinsky, etc. Sure, we can say that all you'll get in a rebuild is Leury Garcia, Omar Narvaez, Carlos Sanchez, Beck, Ynoa, Danish, but that's not really true because you would have a huge influx of positional player talent to go along with Anderson, Rodon, Burdi, Collins, Hansen, Fulmer, etc. You could go through that 2012 list of rookie pitchers from the bullpen and find that most of them are now out of baseball. You're always going to have lots of "misses" in that area of the club, especially the back end.

How could it be happening in September? I assume you're meaning during the offseason, as Sale and Q weren't placed on waivers.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/...nded/order/true Leading the majors with 28 blown saves. Cincy only has 22.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Good question. Someone needs to remind him that this is September garbo time - a whole bench who should get at bats and experience. Hahn is either too weak-kneed to do anything about it....or he shares Ventura's desperation to reach .500 (because .500 certainly isn't a goal that affects the org. one way or the other). As for comments re Saladino, no over-reaction. He's not great - he's just as good as Lawrie, with less experience and more room to grow. That's not a high bar - Lawrie has never been much. Except he has proven he can be a 3 war player earlier in his career...of course, that doesn't guarantee he can stay healthy enough to do it again. And those strikeouts when he's going bad are tough to take, not that Saladino's a contact hitter.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 07:05 AM) My opinion of her isnt just from that. Attacking the women who accused Bill of rape and sexual assault is something I dont think is really forgivable for a politician. Name one politician's wife in the history of the U.S. who had this instinct at the very first hint of marital problems. What should she have done differently? How would we expect our wives to react in that same situation? The key word in your sentence is accused...do you honestly think Jackie Kennedy didn't do the same thing? The difference is how the media feels it's their business to report things that used to be kept private and confidential. Some even believe that Jackie O. threatened Marilyn Monroe or was complicit indirectly in her murder/suicide.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 06:54 AM) KC doesn't need Moustakis anymore. Maybe they would trade him to the Sox for their old buddy Shields plus Lawrie. Then we could trade Frazier and have Moose at third. Just one of those wild trade ideas scenarios that we tossed around while watching the game last night. They can always rotate him at DH with Cuthbert, Cain, Gordon, Perez, etc. That said, they have an option on Morales for $10 million. And they might just end up moving Cuthbert to second...Lawrie is the only player they'd be interested in, for 2b.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Sep 10, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) Nobody is defending Trump though. So Trump=Clinton, well, just because they've been trying to nail her for 38 years. Must be frustrating.

Obama had his comment about guns and clinging to religion. Romney had his "WASP code words" 47% comments. In the end, the main thing she was wrong about was irredeemable...you can never say that as a Christoan, let alone political candidate. Deplorable actions....but you can't label a group of 25% of the people deplorable when your husband's trade pacts contributed mightily to that. Of course, those same people would never surrender their low low prices at Wal Mart.