caulfield12

The opposite. The White Sox are all good "company men" who don't ever rock the boat...or question the longstanding way of doing things. I'd take a dysfunctional frontt office of ten overachievers/tireless workers who don't always get along with co-workers and push their players to their limits than...well, whatever we have now. Sort of like a country club atmosphere. If the Bulls made the same mistakes the White Sox make on a constant basis...would Thibs passively sit there and let it go?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 06:06 AM) Because he doesn't want to. What, for example, has Buddy Bell done exceptionally well or even decently? Is there anything he could do to get fired?

QUOTE (Brian @ May 29, 2015 -> 04:42 AM) Not gonna lie, I enjoyed Battleship for what it was. And yes, I'll see San Andreas. Mmmmm Daddario You're watching for the "sensuous curves" or acting skills? I guess she wasn't (by a long stretch) the worst element of the Percy Jackson films. As long as you're not a Taylor Kitsch fan. Or Rihanna the thespian.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...528-column.html Why doesn't Reinsdorf find the baseball equivalent of Thibs? Reading the last couple of paragraphs, you could exchange Ventura's name with Hoiberg's. It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde. On the baseball side, loyalty and sentimentality reign supreme. Harrelson. Melton. Trying to keep Ozzie and KW both together for far too long. Baines. Cooper. Herm Schneider. Greg Walker Gordon Beckham. Mark Buehrle. Bossard. Nancy Faust. Farmer and DJ. Paul Konerko last year. Brooks Boyer. Hahn as apprentice in waiting. You would think the results on the baseball side would match the five consecutive playoff appearances on the bb side but it's actually the opposite. The White are a loyal and insulted family populated by the likes of Pierce, Skowron and Minoso. The Bulls are a cutthroat business where employees are whisked out the door with a Top Ten all-time winning percentage. Coaches are constantly hired and fired with an eye towards getting to the next level when White Sox fans would be simply elated with one playoff appearance. Has loyalty led to malaise and apathy? Are the White Sox like a 1980's Japanese style "work team" where a guaranteed lifetime employment contract eventually leads to a lack of productivity because there's little or no fear of losing your position? Or Reinsdorf simply can't stand disloyalty.....Ozzie talking to the Marlins while under contract and inseason....or Thibs using Van Gundy to trash the front office publicly? Shouldn't the White Sox be run less as a hobby and more like the Bulls?

Kirk Hinrich=Juan Uribe Love him or hate him...very few "in between" opinions. Reminds me of the Aaron Miles (god, he had a slew of minor league fanboys) debate when that trade was consummated. How long has Miles been out of majors now?

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ May 28, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) Has it been noted that Jeff Hornacek wants to coach in college? Is he disgruntled at Phoenix? He's done a pretty good job there. I hear the rumors swirling around here but I just don't see him going back to the college he walked onto 30 years ago as long as he's an NBA head coach. It would be interesting to see what recruiting strategy he would take....following in the Hoiberg path of JC's and transfers and international signings or doing things more traditionally? There's just not much of a track record. One thing's for certain, in Iowa....where you have guys like Self or Roy Williams or Bo Ryan to compete with just for your best in-state players, then you're sharing the state with UNI, Drake, Creighton, Nebraska to an extent, you BETTER have a plan that extends outside the state (for example, more Chicago Public League players)...Milwaukee...KC...Minneapolis, St. Louis, etc.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 28, 2015 -> 08:07 PM) It's time to make Gordon Beckham the starting second baseman. Case closed. Sox can't afford to have zero chance of a hit out of its second basemen! This should be a NO BRAINER! I think we tried that already for five seasons. If that time has proven one thing, it's that whenever we start to have confidence in him FINALLY figuring things out, it will always take a corresponding turn for the worse and you'll wonder why you were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for like the 6th, 7th or 8th time. Then we'll have a thread about why are we wasting valuable at-bats playing a journeyman 2B when we need to be preparing an everyday player for 2016-2019.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball...coaching-rumors How Fred Hoiberg got to big for Iowa State Didn't realize he was also a football player and was recruited by Nebraska/Osborne? What position? WR? S? QB? He was previously working in the Minnesota Timberwolves front office, where former president of basketball operations David Kahn said Hoiberg was "on track to become president of an NBA team."

Wade Davis—who might have been the best pitcher on the planet in 2014—told me that if you throw strike one to a hitter, the at bat might be over. Too many big league hitters have no two-strike approach; instead of choking up and looking to hit the ball the other way, they just keep taking the same swing. And big league hitters don’t like to strike out, so they start chasing marginal pitches after only one strike; they’re afraid to hit with two, especially if the pitcher has a devastating put-away pitch. So if a pitcher can throw strike one with a pitch the hitter isn’t looking for, the hitter might take the pitch and then expand the zone in an effort to avoid a two-strike count. Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...l#storylink=cpy Thought this was interesting in terms of who really battles on the White Sox with 2 strike counts...and the hitters that seem to get themselves out, aren't selective enough...let pitchers having control issues get off by swinging at the first pitch, etc. Of course, we've had a number of marginal/journeyman/AAAA pitchers shut down our offense over the years. It's not usually the guys with the best stuff who traditionally have wiped out our line-up, although we're something of an equal opportunity employer as far as being susceptible to all makes and models of pitchers this season.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/127224678/sh...-prospects-list Update of the top-line rankings on the MLB International Prospects list. Sox one of 11 teams connected to Martinez. Alvarez remains the pitcher everyone wants. Weren't the White Sox also connected to Jhailyn Ortiz, the #6 guy?

QUOTE (Brian @ May 28, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) Looks like another dud for Cameron Crowe. "ALOHA" getting 11% on RT. Think Almost Famous is the only film of his I really liked. Say Anything was fine and Jerry McGuire is highly overrated. How you mess up a movie with Cooper, Stone and McAdams...not easy to do. Then again, I would have thought that Sofia Vergara and Reese Witherspoon couldn't possibly collaborate for a similar (RT/metacritic) score and they recently pulled that one off as well. (Maybe it's the Adam Sandler Jinx...due to the movies he shot in Hawaii. Akin to the SI Jinx. The common thread is Brooklyn Decker, since she was in "Just Go With It" with Hawaii scenes and Battleship, which were also cursed by Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor. Joking. Well, there's always Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Hawaii didn't screw that one up completely.)

We Bought A Zoo didn't do especially great at the box office, but it's still an enjoyable rental movie. Vanilla Sky was very controversial from the beginning...any remake will be...but I enjoyed watching it. There was a lot of talk at the time about Penelope Cruz and Tom Cruise and what was going on in their personal lives, which was a distraction. The one most people disliked was Elizabethtown, although Kirsten Dunst made it watchable. It depends on your opinion of her. Orlando Bloom, well....he's one of those actors that has only one gear to shift to.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 28, 2015 -> 12:04 PM) I have no idea. I have not been in the clubhouse with Ventura to judge these things. The point isn't that he will stick with it. The point is that the HOF managers you listed had worse records than Ventura in the early years. So if you think Ventura is awful and should be out of the game, these HOF managers should have been in the same scenario and wouldn't have had the chance to grow into the managers the became. I'm not saying Ventura is a great or HOF manager. He has a number of players that are not playing to their previous levels. Could this be on Ventura? Sure. Could it be that they are just having bad years? Sure. Players have bad years. Either way the team has underachieved so far and if it continues Ventura will be gone at the end of the year, mostly because the front office really can't do anything else. Leading to the next obvious question...what organization, outside of the White Sox, would give him another chance? Would he be willing to spend time in the minors honing his craft? To be a bench coach or 3B coach?

Martin Scorcese's HUGO is a much better version of Tomorrowland, fwiw.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 28, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Joe Torre was a well below .500 manager for his first 3 jobs and about 14 years in the MLB. Bobby Cox was a well below .500 mangaer for his first 6 years in the MLB. So in your current scenario neither of these managers would have had the opportunity to become the HOF managers they eventually were. Do you honestly see Ventura as a "baseball lifer" who will stick at this managing thing for that long? None of those guys made so much in the playing days (well, probably Torre) that they were set for life to the point where they could set their family up for a lifetime without managing during their "second lives" in the game.

Five things we loved about Juan Uribe's first day with the Braves http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-leag...-075156787.html

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/baseball-futures.jsp At least the Las Vegas gamblers still have us ahead of 9 teams...they're OPTIMISTIC. So there's that.

This same exact story could have been written about the White Sox in the last two months, if you just changed the names around. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/col...-sale/28032079/ But (Bryan) Price's point is well taken. He's searching for his team's spine. "I think our preparation is excellent. I don't think there's a guy who comes to the ballpark that hasn't prepared to play. But we need to find a fight to this ballclub. We do. I love our players. Sometimes I wonder where our fight is.'' In March, Joey Votto assured us there was a clubhouse full of leaders on his team. Where are they now? If ever a team needed players standing tall and showing the way, this one does. "We just haven't got to the point where that message of aggression has paid any real dividends,'' Price said. Price said he'd get confrontational, if he thought it would help. "If that was something I felt was a difference maker, the intimidation card, I'd use it,'' he said. "I've yelled at our guys before. Confrontation is not an issue for me.'' He said he has showed faith in players who thudded early. "Jay (Bruce). "Marlon (Byrd). I could have sat each guy for a week and sent the subliminal message, 'Look, I need more from you.' That wasn't the most productive way. I put credibility into guys who have been there and done that. That onus of performance is on them.''

NM triple post, bad internet/vpn/proxy here in China

What was the story about Forman buying Hoiberg's Chicago home?...guess their ties go way back in time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2015 -> 09:13 PM) Caulfield is the only person on this site that questioned the attendance that night. No, I'm sure the entire marketing department at 35th and Shields did as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2015 -> 08:51 PM) So you refuse to answer why you yourself questioned the 17k attendance Sale vs. Kluber. No one is really questioning fandom. If you only attend games when the team is a winner, it is a bandwagon fan. But when you don't show up when they do have success, it makes sustaining success much more difficult, because when teams win, their payroll jumps. Amd just for the record, the 75 win Mike Quade led 2010 Cubs drew 105,000 more fans than the White Sox did in their highest attended season. Because the answer drags the conversation back into the same loop. Fan disappointment with the beginning of the season (especially performance against AL Central rivals KC and Minnesota)...the fact that Kluber was pitching poorly until the previous start and had an ERA of 4+ previous to that...that Kluber's name recognition is basically zero outside of hard-core baseball fans, and the fact that nobody really cares about the "rivalry" with the Indians compared to playing DET, Minnesota or even the Royals in recent years. Marketing. Monday night. So-so weather (even when the weather's actually nice at that time of the year, everyone expects it will be poor when looking at the schedule of games to attend). White Sox vice president/chief marketing officer Brooks Boyer said season ticket sales are up "double digits" after a relatively strong 2012 season (proving that fans WANTED to support the "almost winning" team), and added the Sox will see those familiar early season struggles. But the Sox don't price tickets to fill the house, Boyer said, but rather a more of a complicated formula to figure out how the team can charge enough to have a competitive payroll. Still, prices had to drop after six straight seasons of declining attendance. "Overall, our pricing philosophy shift has seemed to have made an impact, and the way our team played last year has had a positive impact," Boyer said. "We're up in season tickets across the board, full and split-season. Some has to do with pricing, complemented with people who now know who Robin (Ventura) is, how he manages. Adam Dunn had a very good year and so did Jake Peavy and Alex Rios, all coming off disappointing 2011 seasons. Everyone wanted to bail on us last year, and the way we played took our fanbase by surprise." Both teams, though, have seen serious attendance decreases since setting franchise records in recent years. And both now use an outside ticket consultant to help set prices. The Cubs use Natural Selection, while the Sox, which use dynamic ticket pricing, get help from Qcue. http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...r-ticket-prices The FCI (Fan Cost Index) also measures the average cost to take a family of four to a game. The Cubs are third at $298.20, while the Sox are eighth at $231.18. The MLB average is $210.46. Or we can look as recently as 2014...where the ratings reflecting the White Sox "winning" even though it was actually the Jose Abreu/Chris Sale Show more than a competitive team in the end Both the Cubs' and White Sox's local cable ratings at the All-Star break are in the bottom five of the 29 U.S.-based teams, according to a Sports Business Journal study of Nielsen ratings for regional sports networks. The last-place Cubs rank No. 25 with a 1.48 average rating, that's down 7 percent from this point last season and 8 percent overall, according to information provided to ESPN Chicago by Sports Business Journal writer John Ourand. Right now, the Sox, essentially tied with last-place Minnesota in the AL Central, have the fourth-highest gain in baseball, up 16 percent from this point last season and 24 percent from last year's final numbers. Unfortunately, that's only good enough for a 1.39 rating, and only two teams are lower. The two teams' household averages are stunningly close, 52,000 for the Cubs and 49,000 for the White Sox, Nos. 21 and 22, respectively, in baseball. http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/jon-greenb...wn-few-watching

Let me ask this question. If negative (realistic/pragmatic) or pessimistic/dark cloud fans bother people so much. why not support a team that historically is loyal/optimistic and whose fans you don't have to argue with about their respective versions of fandom? (Like the Cardinals, for example). I'm assuming there have been thousands of Doubting Thomas White Sox fans since the Black Sox Scandal...or after 1994 and the White Flag Trade. Is it worth the time, effort and energy of convincing all of them to be hopeful and optimistic in the face of all evidence to the contrary? Do you believe that Fathom, who might be one of the most loyal White Sox fans there is here....is less of a fan because he's often pessimistic or mentions the Cubs? Doesn't he represent the quintessential White Sox fan of the last 50-60 years....? If not, who does? (Maybe Billy Pierce, Moose Skowron or Minnie Minoso.) And, besides the "b****ing about everyone b****ing/moaning/whining/complaining," what constructive answers have been provided to improve matters....that will turn the dark clouds into silver linings?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 27, 2015 -> 03:48 PM) Matt Adams likely done for the year for Cardinals. Howard and Hamels would actually make a lot of sense for StL Allen Craig or John Mabry, haha. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12950936...-baseball-storm Bryce Harper having a season so singular (and so far), it has only been equaled by an older version of Babe Ruth Also, in a very classy move, the Dodgers announced they're still going ahead with Juan Uribe Bobblehead night on July 11th. That guy has had a pretty amazing post-White Sox career. So many ups and downs. I'll never forget the story about Mark Buehrle offering to defer money from his contract (or give it up completely) if it would mean he could keep Uribe in a Sox uniform.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2015 -> 07:12 PM) Again why did you question the attendance when the Sox came back from winning 5 in a row? I am guessing you didn't have anything negative to fill your agenda on this board, so you used attendance and are now talkimg out of both sides of your mouth. As to your figures from 2010, you again are not takimg imto account there is onky a finite number of tickets available. If they are tsken by tourists from Iowa, people in town cannot buy them. You also talk day baseball as a draw. During the week, that couldn't be more inaccurate or all teams would play all of their games during the day. I merely wrote that the White Sox had the 9th highest increase in attendance per game so far...an increase of lmost 2,000 fans per game...that the fans responded to the off-season moves. The Twins, meanwhile, have LESS fans per game (this year, compared to 2014) despite being in first place as June nears. How is that being negative? Just pointing out facts that are indisputable. The 2010 White Sox and Cubs weren't in danger of setting any attendance records. Cubs' fans weren't consistently precluded from attending games...and conjecture about how many more tickets they MIGHT have sold is like speculating about the White Sox drawing 3 million fans if they had the best stadium in baseball with the outfield backdrop as the downtown or if they had been relocated to the suburbs. There were plenty of late May through early September home games that year that weren't sold out. As far as "day baseball" goes, all you had to do was follow the Cubs in the 80's or 90's with WGN/Stone & Caray announcing to get the answer to why that worked so well. Booze/Budweiser, Babes, Buppies/Yuppies and Bats (Sosa/Grace/Sandberg). Simple formula. If all those other cities had "historical" Wrigley Field or Fenway Park, then it just MIGHT work, but, once again...MARKETING.