caulfield12

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:05 PM) Avi on the DL for 15 days during this road trip might well make it rock bottom. Maybe. 2001 and 2007 were entertaining (Jose Canseco! Royce Clayton vs. Valentin, KW/Manuel/David Wells vs. Thomas, Wasserman/Fields/Andy Gonzalez) in their own ways. 2009-11-13 were pretty darned terrible, especially when Rios wasn't in a mood to play or sulking and Peavy was spending more time talking than pitching. Last year, we had Abreu at least. Otherwise, for me, you have to go back to 1986-87, but even those teams were more fun to pull for because nothing was expected out of them and almost all no-name players other than Baines/Fisk.

We would have been better off getting Justin Smoak for nothing than overpaying LaRoche in his mid-30's.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 25, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Robertson and Avi being clutch And "clutchness" doesn't exist and will level out/return to mean according to all baseball statisticians, so we're left with merely Robertson (unless they should choose to trade him).

The suddenly red-hot/resurgent Texas Rangers did us one favor by just beating CLE. We can't be one game back for last place no matter what happens for the rest of this game, although we are still percentage points behind. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/wildcard.jsp?ymd=20150525 If we do go on to lose tonight, we're only 1/2 game ahead of Toronto and technically still in last, trailing CLE percentage-wise. The rest of the American League, other than the abysmal Oakland A's at 17-30, is all currently ahead of the Sox.

Not to mention the unavoidable "SkyDome turf" exacerbating the issue, surely. He shouldn't play again until Thursday or Friday...if then. We're reaching the point where we have to look at the long-term of 2016 more than the short-term of 2015, and we don't have any capable replacements (Shuck/Thompson) anyway, so making any type of trade would be idiotic. It is what it is.

Once again, nobody has countered all of the teams listed over and over again in this thread that have been brought up. All we hear are comparisons to the Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Cardinals, etc., and how their fanbases are more "loyal" or not bandwagon when the majority act/behave just like we do in terms of supporting winning teams and/or superior ballparks or gameday experiences. The only example that might be relevant to us is the Milwaukee Brewers, who once again have their market all alone and a much nicer facility for their fans. I've also provided a link to a website that showed that "local/Illinois/regional" fans were almost exactly the same for the Cubs and White Sox as recently as 2010. (In other words, the only reason for the bigger attendance a full 4 years after the World Series was tourism/Wrigleyville/out of state/regional states fan groups who were drawn in by the historic nature of the park, day baseball, the 100+ year losing streak, etc.) 2008 is very simple to explain. Attendance is a function of the previous season, to a large degree. The same reason attendance was better in 2006 than 2005 is the reason you saw a falloff in 2008...largely due to fact that the 2nd half collapse in 2006 lopped off some fans, and the 2007 disaster wiped out yet another 25% of the season ticket base. If you want to say that 2008 and 2012 were disappointments, show the proof that the walk-up numbers were lower in those years than 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, etc. Call or e-mail Brooks Boyer. 2012's "disappointing" attendance was likewise directly related to the disastrous 2011 "all in" season...because surely another 15-20% of the group remaining from the excitement of 2008 and 2010 and the World Series was wiped out. If you want to say Chicago White Sox fans didn't support those 2008 and 2012 teams with excitement/enthusiasm/passion, then the better numbers to look at aren't the offseason ticket packages that make up 80% of attendance but the walk-up/week of game attendance numbers for 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. I'm sure you will see a significant increase in walk-up in 2008, 2010 and 2012. Likewise, I'm so tired of White Sox fans being criticized as if they're the singularity event of that phenomenon when it permeates nearly every non-winning franchise in baseball in a similar fashion. We could go to Oakland, TB, Minnesota, Cincy, Minnesota, Colorado, NY Mets, Atlanta, Seattle Mariners, Houston Astros (remember, they had the worst televisoin ratings in history in recent years with an "exciting/rebuilding" team), Baltimore, Toronto, Pittsburgh and Cleveland websites and read the exact same comments, if not worse. By most of the the definitions here, the Minnesota Twins fans SUCK and are bandwagon fans. But they won 6 of 9 division championships!!! They got a brand new outdoor stadium, too....so why is attendance there way down this season over 2011, 12, 13 and 14? Because they've been losing (terribly) for four consecutive years, and their season ticket packages eroded coming into 2015. Walk-up alone won't offset that.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) The White Sox have obviously been a disappointment and their offense has been terrible. They are lucky to be 19-22 in all honesty. I expect their starting pitching to be better and I also expect Eaton, Cabrera, Abreu, and LaRoche to be better. The White Sox as currently constructed can be anywhere between 5 under and 5 over .500 at any given time. I really think that the Sox will be in position to add to the club come July. I've been looking over some names. The most ideal spots to add would be at C and 3B but those are hard to find. Ben Zobrist Oakland Aramis Ramirez Brewers Martin Prado Marlins Brandon Phillips (2B) Reds Jonathan Lucroy Brewers Brayan Pena Reds Nick Hundley Rockies Willin Rosario Rockies I know that those names aren't terribly inspiring. Zobrist or Ramirez would be nice. I think Lucroy would be a huge addition but will ultimately cost too much. Does anyone have any other ideas? There is already a selling thread so yes I know if it spirals they could entertain dealing Ramirez or Shark. Zobrist and Rosario are defensively limited but would be offensive upgrades. Same with Ramirez, probably. Phillips is interesting...but I wouldn't be in favor of another Shark-Lite deal unless they were legitimately competitive.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:42 AM) It seems like you have being a fan down to - this is the team I like, this is the park I go to and enjoy, and I hope the Sox win, but if they don't, oh well, there's always tomorrow or next year. And that's fine. But if that's the way you consume White Sox baseball, without opinions or thoughts on how they could improve, why even post here? What's here for you that gives you joy other than telling other people what to think? Herein lies the rub with the current state of any message boards about sports, but baseball in particular. 1) Telling one how to think or "be a fan" or asserting one type of fandom is superior. 2) This constant back and forth between being overly optimistic, pragmatic/realistic and then pessimistic...and the shouting back and forth between the 1st and 3rd groups. It also goes in line with attacking the front office/Ventura or defending them, usually. 3) Perhaps the worst part of the boards over the last 2-3 years...the substitution for a boatload of statistics and numbers for reasoned analysis that combines the "eye test" and quantifiable support. Either throwing out opinions with no support and/or having endless arguments about what constitutes a reliable sample size to draw conclusions or make reliable judgments...or arguing about opinions, which USED to be fun back in the good 'ol days.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team. You've just hit on it...for more and more fans, though, the cost benefit analysis comes out on the side of the cost not being worth the benefit. That said, as has been mentioned over and over again, the cost is mitigated greatly by following in other ways, such as as MLB.TV, Gameday Audio, MILB.tv, Extra Innings, etc. It has never been easier to be a fan...and there's never been more competition for your attention and discretionary entertainment dollars. It's of course one major reason attendance is down but fan information and "passion" is increasing correspondingly. 30 years ago, all you could get was a box score, and you had to do the statistics by yourself. That was assuming that it was an early score and you didn't have to wait for the afternoon or next day's newspaper.

Well, there's the near-certainty of Robertson closing out games and mowing down batters. That's ONE element that's an improvement on last season.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ May 25, 2015 -> 07:27 AM) At least no Hawk bulls*** about how this guy has never looked this good. Pitchers know they need not have good stuff they just need to throw close to the zone and sox will get themselves out. And blaming every single loss on the umpiring.

QUOTE (juddling @ May 23, 2015 -> 09:45 PM) Pitch Perfect 2......wow was that bad.... I just watched it online. There wasn't one laugh out loud joke in the entire movie (especially Fat Amy/Rebel Wilson, who the surprise breakout star of the first one). The constant jokes about women's empowerment and the whole presence of the "Nicaraguan" girl who bombed about 10 jokes individually about immigration, just tone dead or flat. All of the interaction with their German rivals.....ridiculous. Can't remember a non-action movie sweeping to so much financial success that's so completely off-kilter and lacking in humor...other than the last decade of Adam Sandler. It really was THAT bad, as juddling stated. The ONLY thing that was fun about it was the music. That's it. Naked cash grab. The 2015 White Sox with all their flaws are clearly better.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 25, 2015 -> 01:47 AM) That would be neat if you are right. Generally, however, a team doesn't suck radically at home on a homestand and go do something that you suggest is possible. Rather I think a 3-7 road trip is more likely. Or 2-8. Pretty sure there are 11 games in 10 days (DH in Baltimore Thurs), next Monday is an off-day. Toronto, Baltimore, Houston and the Rangers. Two teams scuffling (granted, when's the last time we swept in Sky Dome, not sure it has ever happened...maybe 2005-06) and then two teams playing pretty darned well in Texas/Houston. 4-7 wouldn't be a total surprise.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2...had_the_in.html The "inside story" of how Dellavedova ended up with the CAVS Grant would have drafted Dellavedova, but he believed no one else was really interested in the guard. He could be added as a free agent. Right after the draft, Grant signed Dellavedova to a two-year, $1.3 million deal. The deal closer was that Grant guaranteed $100,000 for Dellavedova as part of the deal -- a lot of money for an undrafted player. He will be a restricted free agent after the season. Former Cavs coach Mike Brown had Dellavedova as a rookie in 2013-14. Brown was familiar with the guard, because he watched Dellavedova play a few times at St. Mary's. Elijah (son of Mike) Brown was being recruited by St. Mary's. He even played some pick-up game with Dellavedova, so Brown was willing to give Dellavedova a chance to to prove himself with the Cavs. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/24/8652...illain-warriors You will come to hate Stephen Curry (sooner or later)

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 24, 2015 -> 11:08 PM) I just saw Ex Machina. Liked it, didn't love it. I think the philosophical, thought-provoking parts were strong and two of the three performances were strong (didn't fully buy the writing and/or acting of Caleb). The twists were good, too, although I thought one or two were predictable. Overall, it didn't blow me away. It was entertaining, but didn't leave a lasting impression on me like a great movie does. Maybe our collective standards as a society are slipping...what I mean is, we're so desperately looking for anything inventive/original/non-derivative to the point that we can't recognize "greatness" anymore in films. When we are pleasantly surprised by something, we perhaps tend to overvalue and overrate it. As the expectations run high, like with Avengers 2, we're tougher on those films...and movies like Ex Machina and Snowpiercer that become critical darlings also start to become over-hyped, to the point where it's hard to separate the objective merits of a film because of the preconceived notions we bring to a viewing.

There are, however, red flags that still need addressing. The defense continues to be an issue as errors have had a demoralizing effect on this group. Early deficits have proved costly. And the offense has shown very few signs of life, making those early runs the pitching staff has given up a monumental challenge to overcome. If there were easy answers, the White Sox would love to know. “If you can find that out tell me as soon as you can because if you could find that out that would be very helpful to us and we could use that,” Eaton said. www.csnchicago.com

http://www.coolstandings.com/comebacks.asp?i=1 White Sox teams in 1906, 1983 and 1959 among the top 100 greatest comebacks of all-time. On the other hand, a last-place White Sox team on Memorial Day or June 1st has never come back to earn a playoff spot.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 24, 2015 -> 06:49 PM) Names aside, it's disingenuous to assume one defensive metric applied in a small sample size is a definitive assessment of a player's defensive production. On what defensive standard shall we argue? You agree that we should go with the whoever makes the most errors is automatically the worst defender? I hope not. If you're going to say Semien is worse...then what is that based upon, other than errors? Yes, by "range factor" Alexei Ramirez is really good this season....and Jose Iglesias is pretty bad. Semien's down near the bottom. Nobody who has watched Ramirez all season long would say he's anything close to his best this year. Should we not make ANY comments about a player defensively until we have a 3 year trend/pattern to compare? Are all the writers and websites arguing Bryce Harper's the best player in baseball now also disingenuous for arguing based on two months of 2015 versus the cumulative results of the 2012-14 seasons?

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 24, 2015 -> 05:31 PM) Semien may be worse defensively at SS than Johnson was at 2B No. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/po...nt/6/order/true Aybar, Jose Ramirez, Danny Santana and Andrus are all worse. As far as Micah Johnson goes, nobody's remotely close to his -0.8. Giovatella and Odor are negative, but still -1/2 point better.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 24, 2015 -> 03:05 PM) Do Jermaine Dye and Jim Thome still count? If we stick ourselves back in a time warp with AJ, Dye, Thome and/or Carlos Quentin in 2008...and Pods in the first half of 2005 stealing bases at will, heck, would love to have the equivalent of Iguchi at 2B, too. After that, it's just Ramirez and Abreu.

QUOTE (OilCan @ May 24, 2015 -> 05:15 PM) Why was Cleuluis Rondon hitting 5th in today's lineup?!? Can someone explain this to me? Maybe he gave up switch hitting, lol.

Well, obviously they're stuck with Ramirez until he heats up, and there's nobody ready to play SS in the system until 2017 anyway...and that's a HUGE if in Tim Anderson, who's still more likely to end up at 2B or LF from quite a few reports. (If we are out of it at some point, it would be nice to see what Saladino could do...well, just because he seems to be a good kid and has overcome a lot). Of course, Melky Cabrera will probably be blocking the playing time of youngsters like Anderson and Hawkins by that point. (Then again, we should probably expect the worst since the whole "we haven't produced a position player since Rowand/Crede/Ordonez/Lee thing" unless you count Marcus Semien).

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ May 24, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) For what? There is not one all around good non pitcher in the organization. At a minimum to shore up the defense laroche should play. This is another stupid move that has no rational objection to it. This season is not turning around. There is nothing to show it can. Objectivity...but the point remains.

Anibal Sanchez with 11 k's and 7 er. Fwiw even Danish and Anderson have enough appreciable flaws that another ill-advised prospects for veteran trade like the Shark deal would somehow work against us.

QUOTE (daggins @ May 24, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) Yeah the Sox are in the fairly unique position of being an expensive, young, bad team. This leaves them with little room to maneuver. Except for Cabrera, Duke, Bonifacio, Robertson, Shark and LaRoche. Price in Cincy ejected before the game started...he might be fired tonight or tmrw morning.