caulfield12

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:01 AM) I hope they don't overspend this year though. Ideally, they'll go nuts next year because I think the system will be different in 2017. The Yankees were/are just getting old, almost all their everyday position players. They had no choice but to bring in fresh blood. With the Cubs, it's more about that philosophy and the "niche exploitation" of the rules...they have PLENTY of position prospects (and added Eloy Jimenez, the #1 guy) simply because they want to build up enough talent/surplus they can use all of them to fix gaps in the pitching staff at the major league level. They will strike again in July/August simply because they're in a good position for the wild card and they have that surplus to trade from. And maybe the "insider knowledge" of impending rules changes, and the fact that now's as good a time as any to overspend in one particular year if they have the connections with those players and their agents...or the Red Sox with Rusney Castillo and Moncada. Same thing with the Dodgers, it's just a numbers game with guys like Puig, Guerrero, Arruebarruena and Hector Olivera. Throw enough talent and dollars at a problem, eventually the law of averages dictates some of it will stick.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:12 AM) For sure. To me, the issues go back to those late Ozzie years though. From 2008-2011, this team used its already weak farm system to supplement the big league roster. There were multiple years that this team should have been "sellers" under KW/Ozzie and they hung around and just never did it. They went for it every year and took the draft and international market for granted. They weren't spending the appropriate amount of $$ in those areas. Hahn took over a barren system. I think his past few drafts have been positives and they've brought in some promising talent from the international market. I think that there is talent in the system but it is at AA and lower. They signed Abreu to a nice deal and he ended up being a superstar type hitter. They have a #1, and #2 starter locked up cheap for years. They didn't want to waste those years and they decided to take a shot this year. It backfired. They'll trade Shark, Ramirez, and maybe Duke. And then they'll try to win again in 2016. It's just what this organization does. At least the system is being fed finally though. I'd do more to take advantage of the international market but they are spending their full allotment on the draft and it will bear fruit in time. It was just neglected for so long that they find themselves in the immediate mess that they are in now. Pretty much. The only other way around it is huge spending on 23 and older Cubans and/or the Asian market. However, with the success of Kang with the Pirates, you'll start to see more openness as far as the Korean leagues, imo. He's the second guy after Choo (recently) to make an impact (not counting Hee Sop Choi and Chan Ho Park). The White Sox went to Takatsu and Iguchi and then seemingly abandoned that market, for whatever reasons. My biggest problem is that I'm just not convinced Ventura and KW are the right leaders for this new generation of baseball....I still think they're too traditional/old school. That said, the White Sox had the biggest gain in defensive shifts from 2013 to 2014....they went from 73 to 534 in one season. No other team in the 2014 Top 13 was under 249 shifts in 2013, so that has been a big organizational change.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:36 AM) imho, i think the value of Shark is still high. but other teams will play hard ball to low ball the sox in any trade. Well, my specific comment was on Quintana's value... As far Shark goes, the market will be set with Cueto/Hamels/Chapman, and then Samardzija and Kazmir (if the A's/Beane decide to trade him). Because of the asking prices out there on those first three, Samardzija will become a lot more attractive, IMO. It's always a case of supply and demand, and, other than the K and BB numbers with Jeff, everyone in baseball understands how bad the White Sox have been defensively and can look at all the fip/dip/drs data and reach their own conclusions about what's going on with his 2015 season (with the move to a tougher league/division and smaller parks being another element of his statistical slide).

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:31 AM) On paper mass amounts of writers/pundits and baseball fans thought the Sox were going to be good (because of the roster/and moves). Now we have a ton of guys underperforming (nearly everyone). It's a little bit silly to think that has NOTHING to do with the coaching. I could start giving you some rosters of some other teams with good records that do not look any better than ours. And you can practically guarantee Farrell would be gone in Boston without 2013 to fall back on. All those teams who "won the offseason" (Padres, Mariners, White Sox) are struggling. Not surprisingly, the three teams below us in the MLB overall standings (Phils/Brewers/Marlins) have all changed their managers.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 10:34 PM) That is kind of how I am as well lol. My theater does $5 movies on Tuesdays so I might wait and see it on a Tuesday and hope hardly anybody is there Glad I never saw the one with Richard Gere and Joan Allen in the theatres....the Japanese story based on HACHIKO, the Akita. That was 100X worse than Marley & Me, because I'd already read the book/s and knew Marley's ending. TED 2 was as expected, it had its funny moments and cruel humour, but it is just came off as a bit disjointed (literally, with all the marijuana bongs, and figuratively). I guess the first point is there's just no way to replace Mila Kunis, even though Amanda "Gollum" Seyfried does her game best. Macfarlane is really pushing the line with what a white writer can get away with...I'm sure a lot of African-Americans would have been offended by some of the jokes, although that's par for the course and almost expected with him. The story is more about TED and Tammy-Lynn, it's almost like they wanted to sneak another Mark Wahlberg film into the market but he wasn't really 100% free to play the main character, so they built the story around Ted's baby/adoption and then constitutional rights later on. Morgan Freeman's appearance near the end is almost jarring, where the movie takes on an AMISTAD feel (briefly) that's a bit misplaced or just doesn't quite feel appropriate (linking slavery/Dred Scott with a toy's "rights") in the light of recent events around the U.S. The heart of the first movie was the attempt for John to hold onto his relationships with both Ted and Mila Kunis. That dynamic is completely missing from this one. (Note: I'm happy I recently sold my Hasbro stock...inside joke).

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) how many games can be blamed on RV miscalculations??? yesterday game is proof, Jeff should have been removed. To go back to that point, why do teams like the Cardinals, Rays and Rangers always have multiple minor league options to fill in for major league injuries....whereas we've had no major injuries during the season, yet still aren't even close to having the ability to fill in most of the gaps in the 25 man roster from Charlotte and Birmingham.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:04 AM) There is one overriding constant to being a really good coach though: they all have/had really good players. And that's management's response to cover for Ventura. That he overachieved and ALMOST won Manager of the Year in 2012. The problem with this particular line of defense is that it also opens up the front office to even more questioning...if the talent level from a "near playoff" team in 2012 has degraded so badly, whose fault is that, then, precisely?

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:41 AM) Doubt you get a catcher for Shark. I think you get a solid prospect like an OF or 2B. Q would bring a Catcher+ in offseason. I would hope so, he's a TOP FIVE WAR LHP for the entire major leagues since 2012, ahead of even Bumgarner and Lester. The absolute decrepitude of our defense is making him look like an "average" pitcher, and our offense's lack of run support is making it nearly impossible for him to get some quality wins and build back his confidence to 2012-14 levels. Now every GM knows this, but they are what's depressing his value a bit.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:50 AM) What? I like the use of BUSCH, haha. Because the Cardinals (Busch/Budweiser ties) and Tigers are/were technically small market teams and both have exploited this definition to get extra picks in the draft, although both operate like bigger market teams than the White Sox.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable...php?cid=1819124 I'm currently reading the book BIG DATA BASEBALL (2013/14 Pittsburgh Pirates' resurgence) and thought I'd bring up this particular discussion. It seems to be the only argument for keeping Tyler Flowers, and Soto to a lesser extent. The main thesis of the book is the "unexploited" niche value of pitch framing, and how that enabled them to identify Russell Martin (despite his .211 average in 2012) as THE free agent catcher to acquire based on this statistic, and the fact that his offensive downturn allowed them to offer only $17 million over two years. If you look at the numbers for F. Cervelli, you'll find him #2, with popular offseason acquisition targets Grandal #1 and Jason Castro #4, as well as Miguel Montero at #9 and Rene Rivera (see article http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...ytics/25417499/ ) at #12 and much higher last year, #1. Obviously, there's not a 100% correlation with winning/playoff teams, as you'll see Mike Zunino (of the Tyler Flowers School of Offense) very high on the list as well, with the Mariners. There does appear to be a positive correlation, though, between teams in the playoff hunt and this particular statistic, specifically with the Pirates and their focus on its value. Some of the younger catchers on the positive side of the ledger are Hedges, Plawecki and Caleb Joseph...fwiw. The main point is that the Pirates and Rays (with Martin, Cervelli and Rene Rivera) found veteran, "high leadership value" catchers for bargain prices. The second most important point is the value of pitch framing was used in the targeting of Francisco Liriano (who ended up signing for $1 million in 2013 after the contract was voided due to an offseason broken arm, he later reached the incentives to build value back up and kick in an $8 million 2014 deal)... That the MAIN reason Liriano was poised for a comeback were that his peripheral pitching numbers were much better than his traditional stats, and that his "stuff" had returned by late 2012 (pitch fx, etc.), almost to the level of 2006 (just a couple of ticks off with fb and slider). The book points out how poor Ryan Doumit, Butera and Mauer (Twins) along with AJ Pierzynski (2012) were at pitch framing as support for the pairing of Liriano with R.Martin and now Cervelli. Finally, you can also see the value of this pitch framing with Edinson Volquez's career comeback (with the Pirates), which he's now carried over to the Royals. And all this is not to argue that Tyler Flowers should be the starter in 2016, it's just one way to view or "frame" the discussion...so to speak...and perhaps further evidence the Sox front office is starting to pay attention to these advanced statistical metrics. (Unfortunately, it's too late to "rescue" 2012, though.) The scary part is how EARLY the Pirates started to look at advanced statistics and build their own huge database...it began well over a decade ago, and was adopted first on the minor league level, where all their affiliates FORCED their 2B and SS to shift closer to 1B and 3B as an organizational philosophy...in the beginning, they even had plastic spikes in the ground to mark the positions and remind their players. It wasn't until 2013 (with Hurdle's job on the line) that they got together with the advanced metrics people and GM and started meeting weekly in the off season and daily in season to look at the whole shifting trend and how best to implement it at the big league level to maximum effect. Can Robin Ventura adjust with the time, like Clint Hurdle did? Time will tell, but it's the MAIN reason they (the Pirates) were able to take an average or below-average defensive team and make it a great one in one offseason without changing much of the talent on the roster (especially on their INF corners).

It's really quite simple....who do you think is best prepared to adapt to a new paradigm shift in baseball and lead the White Sox to the World Series again? KW? Hahn? Buddy Bell? Robin Ventura? Doug Laumann/Nick Capra? The obvious answer is it's either Hahn or someone from outside the organization.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 10:37 PM) With each coming year, betting big on the top tier FAs looks more like a fool's errand Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez aren't exactly helping that cause out.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_...adjust-pitching Mattingly questions Puig's desire to adjust to pitching (should probably send the memo over to Steverson as well)

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) So you have a high strikeout slugger in his 30s who never hit for average who saw a decline in his final 4 years before retiring. Not the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. No. On the other hand, 2011 did happen...and if that was his 2014 season instead (which would have been the natural or expected career progression), it wouldn't have mattered so much to the franchise. Or, if he he didn't slump at the end of 2012 and they had made the playoffs instead of tanking/tiring/choking, a lot would have been forgiven for that as well. Perception is always more important than reality with most fanbases.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 07:32 PM) Me too sort of. I will always believe a team that can reverse their bad season and end up well meaning the players they already have improve is worth much more than some hit or miss prospects which the Sox have proved they can't handle (position players). Their players would be worth more in trades upon improvement than the draft position is worth. Of course they have proved worthless in acquiring new players too so its altogether disheartening on so many levels. The problem is that Ramirez and Samardzija are the only pieces likely to go somewhere...unless you believe they'll try to cut bait on Robertson and LaRoche as well. (And even here, we could make good arguments for keeping Ramirez with his value so low and no replacement for 2016.) We're pretty much stuck with Cabrera, Eaton (and he's been much better), Avi, Danks, etc. Finally, all the remaining position players like Gillaspie, Beckham, Sanchez, Flowers, Bonifacio and Soto have pretty limited trade value. We're kind of stuck in a "treading water" situation where the best we can hope for is that Avi and Rodon both continue to improve and someone like Crain, Nate Jones, E. Johnson, Beck, Montas or Danish can look like a piece for 2016 and beyond. Or that Micah Johnson or Sanchez can be relied upon for 2B/SS (either/or) beginning in April next year.

Leaving it pretty much a two team for one wild card spot...just don't see any way the Tigers and Twins BOTH make the playoffs. You've got four pretty "even" teams in the AL East, then the Astros and Angels in the West (don't think Texas had the pitching to hang in there). If Toronto could add more pitching, or the Astros/Angels could make a big move, they'd be prohibitive favorites (of course, that didn't work out so well in the end for the A's, did it?) Would be ironic if the A's send Zobrist back to the Rays...

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 06:45 PM) Ugh I hate that this has to be a thing. Can't they go on a stupid hot streak like the 2010 team? That would require beating up the Cubs (we went 13-2 against the NL in that streak, sweeping the Pirates/Nationals/Braves and losing 2 to the Northside)....a 2-0 start against Detroit...3-3 against Texas/KC in the middle...then sweeping the Angels and Royals 7-0 and winning at Minny to end up) 26-5 With our pitching, certainly possible, but 5-26 is just as likely with our managerial and coaching malaise, defense, base running and bullpen. Of course, the next problem is all the wasted money/resources (Manny Ramirez!) and the fact that this stretch led to the doubling down with the Adam Dunn acquisition before 2011 and the fact rebuilding/retooling/restocking with younger players was delayed another three seasons by this and the 2012 "false positive."

If the White Sox don't pick him up, it will be a shock. Assuming he does get to us first in the pecking order. Richie Weeks, as well. Then Addison Reed was sent down to AAA with a 7.20 ERA, so there's that.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) I'm sorry but these are grown men playing baseball and getting a hell of alot of money then most of us will ever see and there should be no excuses. They get to play a game that alot of kids dream to play in their lives. I'm sure we all aren't fully happy with our jobs or bosses but we put our big boy pants and go to work cause we need a paycheck and I'm sure anyone one of us would like to take their place in a heart beat. That said, it's always easier to replace managers, coaches and front office staff than being forced to trade off players for pennies on the dollar. Whatever's bothering Alexei, whether it's just age catching up with him...or Minnie Minoso's death or family problems or whatever, we have to live with those excuses and try to make sense of them/rationalize...just like Adam Dunn's appendectomy in 2011 or health problems with one of his kids. What's the alternative? To release/DFA all the players when they disappoint us?

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 05:15 PM) Ventura had to be convinced to take the job. All of his teams have underperformed whether they were trying to win or not over the last three seasons. This isn't a decision that's real difficult. I'm not saying do it now as some last ditch effort to save the season. Actually, if they wait until October 5th and let him step aside on his own, that's fine. But there is no question Ventura cannot be here in 2016, and hopefully the entire coaching staff goes too, including Cooper. Time for a change, and hope things go better with the next regime. And even better, Kenny actually takes some blame with consequences, and he resigns. Now you're really dreaming. It would be like Stringer Bell admitting he was a naive mid-level regional drug dealer instead of an entrepreneur.

We can simply toss out 2011 (which, as you noted, no White Sox fan can do) and simply look at 2012-2014. .214 avg, 772 OPS, 32.3 homers, 82 RBI's, 84 walks per season, 190 strikeouts. Every year from 2007-2010, he was at an 889 OPS or higher (in the NL). His average was 914.5. So you're talking about a 16% decrease in performance, once again, throwing out 2011...so the question becomes, if you looked at those numbers (for three years), the fact that it was for a DH who lowered the DRS numbers whenever he took the field, how much would you be willing to pay for that level of production? $6 million? $8 million? $10 million? Would you even want that player at all?

The flip side is it forces US companies to increase their competitiveness and efficiency, and for some to completely fall by the wayside as other industries (and one of the arguments is that it's only service/retail being created, rather than intellectual/creative) rise to take their place. In other words, the inevitable happens faster. So is it better to prepare for the future proactively or wait until you have no choice but to change? Of course, the problem in America is that many workers are now being forced to do the work of 2-3 workers for basically stagnant salaries, low benefits and no overtime, but that's the problem...the world we became accustomed to for most of the past half century. It might be bad in America, but it's happening all over the world, especially southern Europe. One thing struck me this past week....there were very violent clashes between the police, private car taxi drivers (the Chinese version of UBER, which the Chinese government is trying to block to protect their own domestic version) and the regular taxis. The regular taxis (who had just increased their "initial" or basic meter fee from 6 to 10 RMB to start a ride) were complaining that they were losing so many customers. Of course, the customers were saying that the private drivers were providing them better service, no arguments/driving extra distances or pretending to get lost, the private cars have leather seats/sunroof....the private drivers were able to earn more money in this system (controlling their own fate/destiny), as the regular taxi drivers still had to pay their own insurance, license, gasoline, but the majority of it was going to the actual taxi ownership conglomerates. The beauty of the system was that the new mobile software applications were giving both riders and driver extra "bonuses" of 5-10, sometimes even 15 RMB, to use their system...so it's not only a better experience to hail a prvt car, it's also much cheaper. The point is...like in all of the world, instead of worrying about providing better service/experience to riders, the regular taxi drivers simply wanted to protect their turf and not deal with any competition...they wanted the government to "save" them from themselves and arrest the private drivers for circumventing the system (because they weren't officially registered taxis). That's not the solution, either. Of course, there's also no tipping in China, so the "customer service" or "customer is always right" ideal doesn't frequently come up here.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) It's not cheating, but the Cubs are the only ones who could pull this off. The Sox have to basically go for it every year or the fanbase disappears. It just sucks that everything is going wrong this year. Where has the fanbase been since 2007? We're going to lose a lot more than the 1800-1900 season tickets that we added "going for it" this offseason, so obviously that strategy isn't working, either.

Last in the AL. 4th overall pick. 13 GB of the Royals, 8 GB for WC but might as well be 28 with how many teams they'd have to jump. It will be hard to catch the Marlins with Stanton out for 4-6 weeks now, although Jose Fernandez is coming back soon as well. (Note, all three teams behind/ahead of us have replaced their managers, fwiw.)

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 05:02 PM) Ding ding ding. Except as a cumulative or composite whole, that's not telling you anything, either. You'd have to look at each individual, their age at the time they switched leagues, their relative or weighted "expectations" (for example, isn't it reasonable to assume LaRoche, Samardzija or Dunn should produce XYZ result, compared to, say, Bonifacio or Jennings?) If we keep saying almost all of the players who have left the White Sox have failed to play well for other teams, it's not a coaching problem, it's a talent/ability one....but how can that always be the case if those players don't perform as expected when they were acquired in the first place? "On paper, they all SEEMED like great moves..." only gets you so far when the results are "embarrassing" in the minds of numerous scouts and front office personnel for other teams.