caulfield12

Well, the bullpen's definitely getting their work in... Everyone but Veal. Putnam and Purcey the most recent entries. Putnam was the one to give up the run.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) If we're talking about trading for guys who are FAs next year I'd rather trade for Sandoval if he's made available. Assuming they trade Dunn, Panda can rotate between DH/1B/3B. Keep ADA, trade Tank. Ride it with/goinng into 2015 with.... Eaton Semien Abreu Sandoval Garcia Davidson De Aza Catcher SS. Assuming Sandoval has a solid, injury-free season, would you be willing to commit $100-125 million at his age and recent history? You're basically signing a DH, ala Dunn, but you're going to be paying him even more than Dunn. It would be different if he was capable of playing 3B everyday, but we already have Davidson, and Sandoval's not LH, either.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) Once Eaton was acquired, that pretty much closed the door on a Sizemore acquisition. The outfield is already a little crowded. I wasn't originally thinking of Sizemore as a leadoff hitter, but rather as a left handed, middle of the order bat. We still don't have a quality left handed power hitter, so that hole was never filled. That's not his game. He's a doubles and triples hitter (when healthy) who will put up around 20 homers and 20-30 steals. He's not a clean-up guy, except in the most unusual of line-ups.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:02 PM) The White Sox don't. They have two of them. Maybe teams like some of the others you mentioned do. They can fight to pay Scherzer $200 million for eight years. Meanwhile the Sox are going to get 14 years out of Sale and Quintana for half of that price. Or the Cardinals. They'll put money into a Wainright or Carpenter, but they're not going spend big money for the middle of their rotation. It's a pretty good model. The main thing we're missing in comparison is Yadier Molina, who LaRussa claims is the best catcher in MLB history.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) If they bench Semien in favor of Suckham, I'm going to aire my grievances publicly. I'll tell you that. We've seen it with Axelrod over Santiago...sticking with Dunn through thick and thin...might as well add Beckham to the players fans are fed up with. That said, they would be crazy to leave him on the bench when he's the long-term solution at either 2B/SS. He might be the BEST option, in terms of playing all three infield positions, RIGHT NOW, but that doesn't mean it would be good for the future of the White Sox even if Semien gives us the stronger roster in April. Let Leury Garcia fill that role, or Carlos Sanchez. Or Keppinger, when he comes back.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Then if he's a 2 and others view him as a 3, why in the world would you trade him for the return of a #3, especially as he's signed to a contract of a #4? Heck, why do we want to trade him anyway? Sox don't do long rebuilds. They don't. Marty is the only one, as far as I know. The whole point of the deal was cost control/future savings and being able to secure one more important part of the rotation for the 2015-2018 window of opportunity. And, with that money allocated, move on to other areas of importance, like catcher, LH power/DH and possibly replacing Alexei Ramirez if Semien/C.Sanchez aren't the answer.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Yes, it's too early to draw any conclusions, but it's also equally premature to insist that he will sustain more injuries, and thus fail to stay healthy enough to play. The guy is only 31. Now, another player approximately the same age, has signed a huge long term contract. Cano, Choo and Cabrera are all the same age as Sizemore, and they have all received incredibly generous, very long term contracts. All I've ever contended is that it is not too late for Sizemore. He is still young enough to return to stardom. None of us know what will happen, but wouldn't you prefer the deal Boston made for Sizemore, to the ridiculous contracts given Cano and Cabrera? At least Sizemore will more likely try to stay in shape!! I have a feeling Cabrera will age pretty poorly, don't you? Sure, but the White Sox weren't going to sign any of those guys. It's not even about staying in shape, it's the likelihood that you can't build around a player like Sizemore due to his injury history. For the Red Sox, in a win now mode, he can fail, there's no risk and they move on to Jackie Bradley, Jr., or acquire another stopgap. For the White Sox, they would either not have acquired Adam Eaton or traded Viciedo/DeAza or eaten Dunn's salary. If you can make the case why Sizemore would be better for the White Sox in 2016-2017-2018 than Eaton, you're welcome to try.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) How does anyone know how GM'S view Q? I swear some of you guys play GM on the internet so much you actually think you are one. Quintana will always be a victim of Buehrle-itis. While Jose throws harder, the majority of scouts and baseball people would argue that 2's should have dominating stuff and miss tons of bats. Part of it is stubborness, the fact that the Yankees missed so badly on him that other teams are waiting for the other shoe to drop...not in Phil Humber fashion, but they think there will eventually be some type of regression, instead of more continued improvement. He's supposedly the hardest worker on the team, or one of the top 2-3. That bodes well, going forward. Just from going by the discussion over the last couple of days, most would argue he was definitely a 2 last year (in terms of his overall body of statistics) and even a 1 on the bottom 5 teams, but that the contract he signed would work out just fine if he slipped back to a 3 or even 4 type, meaning an ERA much closer to 4 than to 3.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) They could, and I admit I did not see that the first time, but they also can get more value for him if they trade him this year than if they trade him in the offseason or next season. The Brewers have a legit shot at the wild card. Sure, if everything falls apart, maybe they go down that road...but then picking him up for just 1 1/2 seasons, that's not in the current Hahn model of sustainable success either. Simply because of the fact that you'd probably be losing him precisely at the time you would most need him...going into the 2016 season. Then, if they did blow things up, they'd be looking for young prospects, which is precisely what we don't have in abundance, since we need the best prospects for the rebuild. They're going to need a lot more than Rienzo, Carlos Sanchez or Trayce Thompson types. For example, would we be willing to part with Beck and Semien for 1 1/2 years of Gallardo? It's a bit like the Wil Myers for James Shields move, then, although Myers was/is 5-10X the prospect of Beck or Semien. If you were the Brewers, would you trade him for Micah Johnson and Beck, for example?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) This deal makes DET look much worse in the Scherzer situation. I think a lot of it has to do with Verlander being the home-grown player who has spent his entire career with the Tigers, and the "franchise" along with Cabrera... From Illitch's point of view, he's not going to give equal value or higher (to the Verlander deal) to keep Scherzer, partially out of respect to Verlander.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) What the...I don't even...why would you spend time finding trade possibilities with the Cardinals? That is the absolute last team I would approach about trading Quintana, which is a ridiculous proposition in the first place. Just to illuminate the point that trading Quintana to a contending team that MIGHT want certainty about this year instead of exposing Kelly/Martinez at the back end of the rotation doesn't make sense. Of course, we'd all want Lynn/Miller/Wacha, but we'd end up with Carlos Martinez for Quintana. Would anyone make that trade? That's essentially the argument, that Martinez has the ABILITY to be a 1/2 guy and that Quintana is really a 3/4, and therefore it makes more sense to acquire that guy with six years of cost control at a lower overall salary than what they're going to pay Quintana (which still isn't much, basically one year of Cabrera or Verlander). Or I could just go back to the "cost controlled" Sergio Santos for Nestor Molina blockbuster. Teams aren't going to give up those 1/2 frontline young starting pitching prospects. They'll give up their flawed prospects who have tools but much less likelihood of putting it all together.

But Maryland-Baltimore County isn't exactly a powerhouse baseball program, are they?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Choo played 150 games in center last season TERRIBLY. How many times did you see him play there? He's a RFer, playing out of position, almost as bad as Nick Swisher in CF. Do you really think the Rangers are ever going to use him there? Maybe 5-6-7 games all season.

And around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows. Let's face it, most GM's probably view Quintana as closer to a 3 (possibly 4 type on a really deep playoff team like the Cards), and they're not going to give up someone like a Wacha or Shelby Miller for him. They might part with a Piscotty, Kelly or Carlos Martinez, but then we're losing a cost-controlled player whose upside is a 2 and who definitely will be a good return of investment with his current team-friendly contract even if he falls off to a 3/4 type. So the White Sox go ahead and make that trade...not for Lance Lynn, who we really would want the most, but for someone who could be a 2/3 starter, but just as likely could end up out of the rotation in a year. WHICH WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO....Piscotty, Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Beck, #3 pick aren't ready yet and need two years, therefore we need to trade Chris Sale now.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) David Wells WAS traded for, not signed. I am amazed that you are somehow forgetting the Toronto trade debacle with Mike Sirotka, but I guess even Caulfield can have a bad memory day And to be honest I thought you were responding to the second part of his statement where he said "I can think of a few instances when one was traded for" And that is why I responded with Garcia Oops. Yeah, I just remember we had him for $9.5 million for one year, and it was a disaster from beginning, the David Wells radio appearance/sniping with Thomas, then both those guys got injured and we had the pleasure of watching Jose Canseco for half a summer. Amazingly enough, after starting out 14-29, they got back up over .500 in the summer but couldn't quite make a run after they fought to get back to that point.

To understand just how terrible the industry reviews are of the Detroit Tigers' deal with Miguel Cabrera, it's appropriate to draw on the examples from the movie industry. The Cabrera deal, in the eyes of rival executives, is "Disaster Movie" bad. The Cabrera deal, in the eyes of officials with other teams, is "Battlefield Earth" bad. It's is "Heaven's Gate" bad. It is "Sahara" bad. (I think he means ISHTAR??) Folks from around the sport believe that Cabrera's deal is a guaranteed loser, and they do not understand what the Tigers could be thinking to sign on for this money pit that they know will have ripple effects on the entire industry. "I just don't get it," one high-ranking NL executive said. "They lost their minds." Said another: "It's an awful deal for the Tigers, and it's worse for baseball." The criticism of the contract should not be confused with criticism of Cabrera, whose skills as a hitter are universally respected. Buster Olney, ESPN blogs

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:01 AM) Terrible example. Freddy Garcia should be first and foremost He said SIGNED. "I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though." Not traded for/or extended once already on the team...because then you have Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Javy, Garland, etc. The only two that qualify in the last 20-25 years are Navarro and David Wells.

DIVERGENT was okay, but not nearly the cultural "touchstone" as Hunger Games or Twilight. As usual, the books were better, although this first movie does adhere pretty closely to the original source material.

Anything is better than last year. Just to see Eaton and Abreu, maybe Semien, Erik Johnson...maybe it will be a weight off everyone's shoulders when Dunn is gone as well as Konerko and it really feels like a completely fresh start?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 08:01 AM) I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though. It was probably Jamie Navarro, though that's stretching the definition of the phrase top of the rotation. I can recall several instances where they traded for one though, and it was (almost) always at a fair cost. David Wells, 2001

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:52 AM) Just to stress....it's going to be extremely difficult to get any healthy, successful, prime-aged starter at "a fair cost" on the free agent market. That's just not what the FA market is built to do. It's likely to be someone coming off an injury like Josh Johnson where we can have a club option (at least) on a second year...if they even feel they need to add another pitcher this offseason. Or a Liriano type situation..."change of environment" trade, the pitching equivalent of dealing Beckham or the Borchard/Thornton move back in the day. Finally, the dreaded "character issue" guys, like AJ or Eaton supposedly (I mean, ones that had fallen out of favor a bit in the clubhouse, with their teammates/management).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:49 AM) He just turned down 6/$144, which is $24 mill a year, so why would he accept a deal that pays him $21.4 mill a year with an extra year? He is said to want 8 years anyways. There are three rough scenarios that will play out here. 1) Scherzer is healthy, has a great year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 8 years, $200 mill. The Sox don't want him. 2) Scherzer is healthy, has an OK year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 5-8 years at $20-25 mill a year with incentives and options and opt outs. The Sox don't want him. 3) Scherzer is not healthy, it doesn't matter how he performs, and he's looking at a 1 year prove it deal in the range of $10-20 mill. He either performs really well and bolts for a big offer the next year, or he doesn't and it ultimately hurts the team at the current cost. The Sox don't want him. Logistically speaking, there is no way the Sox should have any interest in Max Scherzer. When it comes to starting players, I don't want to say any particular needs trumps any other - it's a need for a reason. Still, I agree with the general premise that, if you can get another top of the rotation at a fair cost, you pull the trigger without worrying about other potential positions of need. And yet there's not even much of an agreement here whether Justin Masterson constitutes a top of the rotation starter. Tanaka was/is projected to be an "ace," but that's just another version of Jose Abreu risk-wise, with twice the money invested.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:07 AM) If you don't like Jimenez or Santana for 4 years and $50 million, and a second round pick I don't understand how you can like Masterson next year for significantly more money and a higher draft pick. See how this season goes. You don't have to have targets on free agents yet. I will say, one of the reasons I thought the Sox should target the above THIS year is the price tag. You will be giving up a lot more later for something similar both in money and draft pick. I liked Jimenez a little more than Santana, but it is funny that Don Cooper is a supposedly a genius, but if an expensive free agent pitcher signed this season, they certainly would bust. Hopefully the Sox young starters and Paulino are as good as some posters here think so it will be a non issue. I think you can never discount the heightened risk of injury to a pitcher at age 30 and beyond these days. It's not a matter of whether or not they would bust, it's simply a matter of the likelihood that if you took 5-6 different chances with the equivalent of a Paulino, versus one Santana/Jimenez/Garza, then 90% of the time you'd be better off taking the lower risk bets that one of them would pay off versus the 50-75% chance you'd end up disappointed in the big name veteran "non ace" #3 starter. Of course, it's not even realistically possible to fill our rotation with 5-6 Paulino's, nor would we ever want to....but the White Sox seem to be betting on getting a higher return on their bullpen arms than any part of the roster at this point.

QUOTE (beautox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 06:47 AM) The way i see it is going into next season we have 3 positions that need to be addressed and this is how I think the front office is going to lay out the thought tree for each. OF - If Viciedo hits they move him to DH to absolve some of his horrible defense if he doesn't maybe Thompson finally puts it together and we have a in house option that gets a cup of coffee at the end of the year with the prospect of taking over in the outfield. In addition to the whole in house idea even if May has as great of a year as he had in '13 he will only sniff AAA for a brief second and thats with a hyper aggressive white sox front office that time and time again loves to challenge their young hitters. If Viciedo fails and the in house options look bleak or at best opaque. I think and have been championing the idea of having Rasmus come to the south side, his age lines up really well with this core, the sox will continue to need power; especially from the left hand side and they have plenty of money to do so and most of the major market teams will not be in on his services, so the notion of a "bidding war" seems a bit silly; yes he is going to get paid but I wouldn't look to even Choo like money, Pence and a bit more. By signing him they can arrange their outfield defense to get the most out of everyone; possibly something like this Garcia LF, Rasmus CF, Eaton RF. If that falls through and Despaigne defects we could again see another highly rated cuban come to the south side even more so with the potential trade of Alexi this coming year, the only issue is he is right handed. DH Viciedo? R C ? 1B Abreu R 2B Semien R SS Sanchez S 3B Davidson R LF Thompson? R CF Eaton L RF Garcia R C - Tyler Flowers is at best a back up, this needs to be addressed and i have plenty of confidence Hahn will do that by '15, lets just see if we have a major league capable back up between Flowers, Nieto, Phegley & Smith DH - If viciedo is successful this is where i would pencil him in, if not hes traded or at worst non tendered next offseason. Maybe age will continue to ravage both Konerko and Dunn and we will get to see an extended look at Wilkins, if(and there are a lot of them with a rebuilding team) he gets a shot and runs with it, I wouldn't fault Hahn for letting it ride with Wilkins going into '15. Wilkins does have a legit 20+ HR bat with a solid eye. If both of those scenarios don't work out I would love to see Hahn sign someone like Morales he would be 31-33 during our "window" so to speak. Add all that up with the returns that we will get by moving through all our vets coupled with another solid draft and i think the sox are looking at a farm system between 11-15 going into '15. Along with a great looking major league core that we will likely see continue to sign below market deals. Because of his relatively young age, being lefthanded, being able to play CF (unlike Choo) and the fact that there are just so few appealing OF options on the market, Rasmus is going to easily get $100-125 million if he has another 850ish OPS year. It would be even more shocking at this point to see Thompson put it all together, but stranger things have happened. With all the disappointment surrounding our minor league outfielders the last couple of seasons, sooner or later one of them almost has to break through by the law of averages.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140328/SPOR...era-record-deal http://sports.yahoo.com/news/miguel-cabrer...-051917319.html Passan doesn't mince words about the stupidity of the contract, at this particular point in time. http://www.freep.com/article/20140327/SPORTS02/303270132/ Heyman picks the Tigers 3rd, Royals first, to play the Dodgers in the World Series, lol....and Indians 2nd