caulfield12

Yep, second true blowout/no contest game of the season. Felt it coming with Paulino on the bump. Addison Reed blew another game for the DBacks, ironically, against another former Sox, Juan Uribe.

I'm not sure Rienzo has earned it with his performance so far in the minors so far this season, but there might be no choice with another start or two like that. It's not like they're going to go out and make a trade. They might pick up one of those reclamation veterans, but those guys are going to need their own version of spring training to get up to speed...at least 3 weeks. Rienzo, Surkamp, Beck...they might as well throw a dart against the wall and see whose picture they hit with the toss.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 04:11 PM) GREAT resource. My favorite is the immortal Mario Mendoza (he of the .200 B.A. "Mendoza Line" fame -- played parts of 9 years in the Bigs and 5 times his B.A. was under .200). Nice to know that there is a Mendoza Line for ERA as well -- he had 1 appearance, pitched 2 innings, 3 runs, so a 13.50 E.R.A. As many others have said, this kind of problem, happens often in exactly this kind of setting -- hotly contested game, playing match ups in the late innings frequently, then running out of pitchers because the game winds up going unexpectedly long. IMO there is shared blame for this -- on the one batter, one walk pitchers for ... SUCKING. And on Ventura, not for this happening in general (because it can, will, and does happen regularly in the Bigs), but because his refusal to have bullpen roles makes it much more likely to happen. We may never have got to extra innings if Lindstrom had pitched the 9th. As presently constituted, nobody not named Webb or Lindstrom should EVER see the 8th or the 9th. Then, we really need a designated long reliever on the staff (Axelrod or similar). If the dude doesn't pitch early because of the blowout, he's almost always available as the last guy out of the pen in just this kind of game. Once we blew through all the other relievers, the long man pitches as long as necessary 5, 6, 7 or more innings ... whatever it takes. My biggest problem with RV as a manager isn't that he makes the occasional mistake, but I don't have great confidence that he's actually LEARNING from him mistakes and making adjustments. And that should be Petricka's role on this particular roster (long man), it's just that other pitchers are going so badly he's being forced into key situations because Ventura can't rely on anyone. Granted, if someone like Axelrod or Rienzo was out there in the pen, it would probably be much clearer in Robin's mind what that pitcher's role should be. With Petricka, he's shown enough stuff that Robin has been forced to move him up into a key 7th/8th inning set-up role because of massive failures by the likes of Downs and Veal, not to mention Belisario and Lindstrom.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) We're talking about a bunch of pitchers, most of whom haven't pitched 8 innings yet this season. Some not even 4. The roles, to any extent that that matters, are sorting themselves out. The bullpen currently sucks. You can't just hide five pitchers. There are people complaining that the great Daniel Webb was not used earlier in the game and somehow contorting themselves to ignore the fact that Webb immediately gave up a run when he got in the game. Back-up QB syndrome again. He has been annointed the "closer of the future" by many, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course, there aren't very many good or even possible choices, other than Nate Jones. Belisario's throwing almost every single pitch up there at the same speed, 95. Not working out so well. (I'm honestly starting to think Takatsu could go out there today and be more effective for one or two months, until the league readjusted to him). Things are so bad that Cleto got the job simply because of one really nasty performance in a tie game in Colorado. Mind you, that wasn't even a save situation, but he made CarGo look silly so...hey...MAYBE he can get a save. The thinking being by Robin...well, I just can't run Lindstrom out there AGAIN and have the entire team expecting a blown save, we might as well hope and pray Cleto's stuff can get us through an inning and he won't be wild. We all see how well that worked out. It was kind of like the Leury Garcia outing. He got those two quick outs, but as soon as the first walk happened...he started overthinking, Cooper had to go out on the mound, you just knew something bad was going to happen.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 03:56 PM) Why isn't Puig an answer in the poll? Only if you would like to add him. I have no doubt he could do better than some in our bullpen, if he actually set his mind to doing it.

Odds of Beckham coming back and not playing everyday or being back-up/platoon 3B-SS-2B? 3-5%

Just to provide some historical comps. (Right now, we're at 5 BS/6 SVO through 16 games)...on a current pace for 51 blown saves, haha. Most/fewest team blown saves per season, 2002-2013 2013 29 Houston and Arizona/ 11 Texas 2012 29 Milwaukee/8 TB 2011 27 Washington/8 Philly 2010 27 Baltimore/10 StL 2009 28 Seattle/12 Oak and Cincy 2008 31 Seattle and StL/9 NYY 2007 29 Colorado/11 Boston and StL 2006 31 KC/10 Minnesota 2005 28 SF/12 Pitt 2004 34 Colorado/9 LAD 2003 30 StL/8 LAD 2002 33 Texas/10 Milwaukee

Oops. Just get rid of this thread then.

The only time Cleto has looked REALLY good was against the heart of the order in the 8th inning in Colorado with the game tied.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 01:56 AM) Eh, no one would use the term phenom, but yes, our best prospect is a SS, Tim Anderson. For now, but I still believe Hawkins has an equal if not greater chance to be a superstar. Anderson's more like a bigger version of Ray Durham.

When it came time to talk about the tall, skinny kid who threw like nobody else, the debate wasn't much of a debate at all. The Kansas City Royals held the fourth pick in the 2010 draft. The top three picks were gimmes: Bryce Harper, Jameson Taillon and Manny Machado. Where they would go at No. 4 they weren't sure. They just knew it wouldn't be the tall, skinny kid. Everyone in their draft room, recalled people privy to the conversation, agreed: Chris Sale was a relief pitcher. They loved what he did at Florida Gulf Coast, where he enfeebled batter after batter. They appreciated how hard he threw, the action on his changeup and slider, everything about him. They just weren't taking a reliever with the fourth pick in the draft. That would be like picking a utilityman. The greatest beauty of Sale, who may well be the best left-handed pitcher alive not named Clayton Kershaw, is the very thing that frightened off the Royals and the eight teams that followed them: that he is a complete anomaly, a 6-foot-6, 180-pound pipe cleaner with an 82-inch wingspan, a delivery that looks wrong bordering on painful and a way of combining the two to make hitters look perpetually foolish. Now in his fifth big league season – yes, it's been that long – he is one of baseball's unquestioned aces, a high-inning, high-strikeout, high-groundball, low-walk, homer-scarce, left-handed monster. His success is an ode to the cooperation of scouts and major league personnel, and an organization that bucked conventional thinking to rely on its own wisdom. Sale is baseball's worst nightmare: the player with no comps. Scouts like to give their bosses comparable players, if only to give a general outline as to who he resembles. Sale's closest comp may be Randy Johnson, who's only the biggest freak baseball ever has seen. Nobody else fits Sale's mixture of body, sidearm action and mean stuff. And so in the days leading up to the 2010 draft, his name came up in another room, as an answer to the question: "Who can help this team win now?" Kenny Williams, now the Chicago White Sox's president and then their general manager, wanted help for what ended up an ill-fated playoff push. Someone pulled up video of Sale, though the White Sox, picking at No. 13, didn't expect him to drop to them. Only the Royals skipped past him, as did others because of the body or arm action or maybe both. Kids named Barret Loux (Arizona) and Karsten Whitson (San Diego) and Deck McGuire (Toronto) went ahead of Sale. He is the classic draft second-guess, every team jealous that Chicago guessed right. The White Sox's front office and evaluators used slow-motion video of Sale's delivery to assess different potential danger areas: where his arm sat at foot strike, how well he cleared it, where it was upon landing. That allayed fears. Pitching coach Don Cooper, respected across the sport for his historically healthy rotations, broke down the same video of Sale and gave his seal of approval. As long as the White Sox could get Sale on board with their shoulder-intensive exercise program – and he has proven among the team's most diligent with maintenance work – they believed his arm would hold up despite not looking the part. "Given the upside and the impact he could have," said Rick Hahn, now the White Sox's GM, "it was a risk we were willing to take." And one, it turns out, well worth taking. After debuting as a reliever for the last two months of 2010 and sticking in the role the next season, Sale has spent 2012-13 as a starter, made a pair of All-Star teams, received Cy Young votes, averaged more than a strikeout an inning over 406 1/3 frames and left hitters more confused than anyone. The scary part: Only now is he truly unleashing his full arsenal. In an effort to save his arm from excessive wear and tear, Sale is throwing far more changeups than he has at any point in his career – nearly 30 percent of his pitches in his first three starts, compared to less than 14 percent in his first season as a starter. His fastball and slider proved such great weapons that he treated them as security blankets; the evolution of the changeup is simply another step for the 25-year-old in his quest to grow even further past the rap hung on him in college. "I've never put too much thought into what other people think," Sale said. "It either happens or doesn't. There were guys who weren't supposed to pitch in the big leagues who have long careers. You have guys drafted in the 30th round that become perennial All-Stars and lead teams. You can't pay attention to what everyone else is saying. Be your own guy." He is very much that. Sale isn't the sort to embrace his own success, especially numerically. Sale said he never looks at his statistics until the end of a season. He worries about letting his ERA get into his head. Even after the year ends, the advanced metrics that put him up there with Kershaw and the rest of the best pitchers in the game don't resonate. "All I know I've got to do is give up less runs than we score," Sale said. "I don't care about anything else. Not the numbers. Not the ISPFMLBLSSRs and whatever else Brian Kenny has come up with to define what makes a good player or not." Reminded the numbers love him, Sale said: "I don't love them back." Nobody said love needed to go both ways. So long as his arm keeps pumping two-seam fastballs in the mid-90s and grants him the confidence to throw changeups to left-handed hitters, Sale could profess his love for the Gatorade cooler in the dugout, and nobody would flinch. "He wants to be great," Hahn said. "He wants to be that No 1. He wants to be out there for all nine. He has embraced that." As the White Sox rebuild, Hahn can at least take solace in that. It's a luxury to know in a game against the defending champion Red Sox in Boston, with the great Jon Lester on the mound, Chicago can come into the game as favorites because Sale is pitching. He'll do so Thursday night, looking to bump his record to 4-0 and lower his ERA from 2.66. In the meantime, a 24-year-old infielder will continue playing at Triple-A, where he's hitting .224 with a .637 OPS. His name is Christian Colon. The Royals took him with the fourth overall pick. If he ever makes it to the major leagues, scouts believe he'll be a utilityman. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-white-sox...-045421128.html

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 08:59 AM) Roster move? (For fresh arm). They really don't have a guy for long relief role. I knew it was going to come back later when Downs came in, walk, take him out, repeat with Veal. I'm glad I fell asleep. Or use Surkamp as the long man and replacement for Veal (2nd lefty). That's probably the best option at the moment.

Webb threw almost 60 pitches, didn't he? He's going to have to sit now until Saturday, probably Sunday. And he's our best pitcher in the bullpen right now.

I was looking and looking for the 5 out of 6 blown save opportunities thread. I actually thought someone posted something on here and it was causing the site to get blocked by the Chinese government it was down for so long. Or maybe the attendance problems were spilling over into diminished SoxTalk NAV (just joking). Really thought Leury was going to get out of that inning but then he got nervous/anxious after the first two outs...frustrating frustrating way to lose. It's amazing Boston just didn't blow it open in the 9th. Now we have a full-blown closer controversy with Lindstrom saying he was ready but Ventura giving the ball to Cleto instead.

Hawkins 2 for 2 with a double, run scored....no K's. .364 Goldberg getting beaten up.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 16, 2014 -> 12:22 AM) I agree with you, but we are in the vast minority who think prices of tickets and food at the park and parking has turned a lot of people off. I know cheap seats are available. I want box seats and good ones. For some reason, this reminded me of Michael Douglas' epic burger joint speech in the movie "FALLING DOWN." Back in last place in the majors. http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance 17,355 per game. What's most amazing to me is that Miami is averaging nearly 5,000 more per game, not that Tampa and Cleveland are the two teams right in front of us. Minnesota is now down to less than 25,000 per game as well (the five year effect of a new stadium and/or World Series title wearing off). Houston, also, being where they are...with how bad they have been. Oakland is getting more support, but they deserve it with their recent string of play.

at Detroit...postponed at Cincy (2nd game of DH against Pirates)...18,462 at Milwaukee (hated Cardinals)....27,470 at Minnesota (boring Blue Jays)....21,818 Of course, Milwaukee has the roof...and any new White Sox stadium has to have the retractable feature, which will make it all the more expensive for it to be privately-financed. 13,402 mostly Boston fans at USCF

Lots of poor hitting with RISP tonight on both sides. Wonder how much we can really take from this, with the cold weather? Well, certainly more encouraging than him getting bombed.

I guess it's safe to assume DeAza is the goat so far, Dunn and Johnson the heroes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 07:44 PM) He hasn't been stupid so far, which is a nice improvement. He has gotten picked off first at least once and had a few struggles in LF, but, in general...he's been better than 2013. Low standard or bar to jump over, though...for sure.

Well, DeAza...please don't hit any more homers. You immediately go into a two week death spiral afterwards.

Not to mention increased accessibility to all the games via cable, satellite (Extra Innings) and more recently through MLB.TV and At-Bat through mobile and tablet devices. Will be interesting to see the attendance in Cincy, Minneapolis and Milwaukee tonight.

Paulino was never projected to be the 4th starter, Erik Johnson was, based on last season's minor league run and 5 major league starts. If there's any problem pitching-wise with the Sox going forward (short-term), it's Johnson and Beck not being ready in 2014/15.

NO NO NO to Beede or Holmes.

36 degrees now forecast throughout the game. Will feel like 30-32, actually expected to "warm" up a bit as the night goes on. I'm not sure what is worse...having sub 10,000 attendance games, having 10-15,000 with the Red Sox in town and being 80-85% Boston Bandwagon fans or the fact that these games would have made the White Sox a lot more revenue on a weekend/May-August. As it is, there's going to be articles written about the low attendance with Boston in town, in spite of the weather factor.