caulfield12

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:07 PM) s***, I'm as cynical as they come. But if brother quinarvy has faith, I shall have faith. Alex Gordon is doing pretty good for himself lately. He was also the consensus #1 collegiate player of the year. Beckham wasn't quite at that level, that anyone considered him for the top pick in the first round.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) Man, with all the Gordon talk lately, I feel like I'm gonna stand up for Gordon. When Bacon Slayer first came up, we got this: Great plate presence, drove the ball. Jeter thought he'd be the next big thing. Stone said he'd have a couple MVPs. He would only be "ok" defensively. Well, now he's elite defensively. The offense disappeared. But it was there and it shows flashes of returning. Kid is 25. He can turn it around. Crede wasn't a useful hitter until 2005, when he was 27. In his last year of arbitration. And we got two more years of Gordon cheaply, so there's time to turn it around. We don't need big offense from our #9 hitter, but his elite defense makes him useful. Rios has regained his All-Star form, so I believe Gordon can turn it around and become the Bacon Slayer once more. /optimism post. Apparently you don't consider a 741 and 714 OPS level of offense "useful." 19/75 and 21/69 HR's and RBI's in 2003 and 2004. We would die to get those numbers out of Beckham at this point.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Sox fans must be still spoiled with the 2005 World Series if they are willing to pass on this golden opportunity because they don't want to sell the farm. Greinke is a difference maker at the top of the rotation. Does it guarantee a World Series, no, but neither does hanging on to Viciedo, Reed, or Quintana. All this talk about this package is too much, or that package is too much because it involves one or two of those three is in my opinion nonsense. The type of trades you're talking about would make it impossible to be much more than a .500 team next year. If they traded three young cost-controlled prospects, how are they supposed to field a decent team next year? They can't possibly afford to fill 3B, 2B, LF, C, at least one starting pitcher and a possibly a closer from outside the organization. If they were 4-6 games ahead of the Tigers, then it would have more validity. It's too much of a gamble because Greinke hasn't pitched any better than Peavy or Quintana, especially if you correct for the difference beween the AL and NL.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) Isn't Hanley the guy who cut his hand stupidly then wouldn't take the medicine so it got infected? He must be a piece of work. Yep. This trade didn't come from Ozzie, it was more Beinfest and Loria reaching their wit's end with him, in terms of playing up to his potential the last 2 1/2 years. A little like the Zambrano/Cubs situation, although maybe not quite so dramatic.

LOL. How is DeAza a true corner OFer? Those are sluggers like Dye, Quentin and Viciedo. The opposite is true, he's a decent CFer who puts up really nice numbers for that position/leadoff.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) Like who? Chris Carter Michael Morse

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) No point in arguing. Quentin was never good Alexei was never good Dye sucked Pods sucked Iguchi sucked Dayan's future is bleak De Aza sucks AJP is bad Bring in Trout-type players or you fail as a GM. Thome was one-dimensional and only K'ed, walked or homered, lol. Sounds familiar.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) What deadline did they put on the deal? Before his next start, which would be Sunday or Monday.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) Honestly man, I can't say. I just get generalities no specifics. Guessing: Reed, Quintana & Saladino/Escobar - Greinke, cash? Escobar is of zero interest to another team....or about the same as Brent Lillibridge was to the Red Sox. Saladino makes a lot more sense as the 3rd piece. I wouldn't do it, but I'm not 100% sure KW would let it pass him by. It's the kind of trade that wouldn't kill the Sox, as they have Myers to replace Reed for the rest of the year, but I don't enjoy the idea of being locked into Myers as a $10 million closer next year. I would rather have Myers as a starter in 2013 (at $10 million). Same thing with Liriano....reliever/spot starter in 2012, full-time starter in 2013. That and the fact that you know Greinke will be gone.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) I think KW wants to hold onto Quintana, he's a pleasant question mark. I think we know what we get out of Floyd. It also makes sense the Brewers would want Floyd over Quintana cause Floyd is atleast proven. Q is largely still an unknown. And IMO if the Brewers wanted to take a flyer on a potentially good prospect they will make a trade with a different team who can offer a better spect. I think the fact we are offering ML proven and ready players in return is what makes us attractive to Melvin. But the Brewers paying Floyd $9.5 million to rent for just one year versus about that same amount for Quintana for five years...the Brewers would definitely go for Quintana. They're not going to be in a position to compete next season in all likelihood losing Greinke....they need to look forward to 2014-15-16.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:04 PM) I just don't see the Sox EVER paying that much for a pitcher. I'd rather see a deal for someone else (Johnson, Buehrle, etc.). We're not going to be capable of giving the Marlins the type of package they want for Johnson without impacting the ML roster, so someone like Shields or Liriano might make more sense. Don't see the Marlins being willing to eat any money on Buehrle's deal until 2013 at the earliest. Maybe Loria will change his mind this last week.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) And now he's on the DL. That leaves B'ham with 3 starting pitchers. Are they shutting Molina down for the rest of the season? Maybe he'll get a fresh start in the AFL, but they might be better off resting him all the way through ST. No winter ball. Fresh start in 2013.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:01 PM) Not if jones is included. Why would JR want to take on K-Rod's salary when odds are Nate Jones might actually be better down the stretch at the league minimum? And Jones could be a part of the future and grow up with the rest of the bullpen.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) yes, let's overpay for a 2 month rental! if we trade Floyd for Greinke, and don't bring back Peavy next year the Sox might be able to afford to extend him right? You seriously want to pay Greinke $23 million per season for 5 years? Why?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:55 PM) Guys relax, Kenny is not an idiot. He is not going go make a move that will significantly effect the team. Viciedo, Alexi, Reed, all are too important THIS year. They have valuable rolls they play. I'm pretty confident if this gets done we will be parting with Beckham+Floyd+ a spect or two for Grienke+ Weeks+ K-Rod IMO. That is a blockbuster and adds to the team significantly for THIS year. That's what I see happening if this happens. They have zero need for K-Rod with Myers and Crain and Jones. He's superfluous.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) People were saying the same things about Crede in July of 2005 they are saying about Beckham now. He'll turn it around just like Joe did, only he'll be able to maintain it since his back actually works. When Gordon Beckham is our September/October (post-season) MVP, then we can talk. Crede was... 1) A much better power hitter 2) A much better clutch hitter, for example, getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, Uribe and Crede were awesome 741 (2003) and 717 (2004) were his OPS numbers heading into 2005... Gordon's about 100 points below that. KW was also saying the same things about Torii Hunter and Brian Anderson...or about Josh Fields. Been there, done that.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:45 PM) You're scaring me man, you're making it sound like KW is ready to overpay in a big way. And not like "oh he's just throwing in an extra prospect" but "he's all in, putting in Viciedo, Floyd, and Reed." Please please don't be the case. Which means Jordan Danks is our new LFer and Brett Myers is our closer in 2013 at $10 million, with his 91-92 MPH fastball. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Wasn't the point of trading Santos that we don't have to pay a closer more than minimum salary? And then we're going to pay Myers like he's one of the 3-5 best closers in baseball when clearly he's not elite?? It also means we wouldn't be able to keep AJ or Youkilis for sure.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) Liriano-------------too easy. Thornton after a horrid April last year finished with a 3.32 ERA and 63 k's in 60 IP. This year he's at 3.70 with 37 k's in 41 innings. Not the Thornton of old but definitely productive and valuable. The difference is we would be using him as a spot starter and out of the pen for two months, then keeping him as a starter for 2013. What's Thornton going to do to help our starting rotation in 2013? We already have Santiago, Septimo, Veal and Santos Rodriguez for that spot in the pen in future years, at less than 1/10th the cost. We have no idea what's going to happen with Sale, Quintana or Peavy down the stretch. Liriano would be the only thing standing between us and Axelrod/Castro starting must-win games down the stretch. I'll take the experienced vet in the heart of a pennant race (he's been there before) over anyone we can promote from our minor league system. Maybe Ryan has a sense of humor and would rather see the Sox win the division than Tigers/Leyland/DD.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) MVP votes and league leaders - that's pretty funny. Has Kenny Williams drafted an all star caliber hitter since he got the gig in 2001? White Sox haven't put as much into the draft and have had a lower draft position with just a few exceptions. He's acquired Quentin, Alexei, DeAza and Viciedo...doesn't matter where they came from. I'm pretty sure Chris Young of the D-Backs made an All-Star team at some point, although I could be wrong. We didn't surrender anything in terms of talent for Rios, who made two All-Star teams with the Jays. Nobody's downgrading Williams because we got Jenks, Santos, Humber and Quintana on the cheap from other organizations. Everyone's complaining we missed on Trout, but every team in the majors but the Yankees (because he grew up in their backyard) and Angels were wrong on him. And the Angels fired the scout, Eddie Bane, who discovered him and cultivated the relationship.

A's finally lost a game. Chris Carter has 6 homers in 40 some AB's. +9 Angels +8 White Sox +8 Tigers +8 A's +6 Orioles

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:09 PM) No problem. I'll stop. You ask politely, Greg responds in turn. Did you get that 3rd person speaking style from another Kansan, Bob Dole?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:10 PM) Liriano in the bullpen in 2012 7 1/3 IP 7 H 4 R 4 ER 7 BB 9 K 5.07 ERA Your hatred of Thornton makes you not see the truth. I'd take Liriano, I've seen enough of Humber, but you really undervalue Thornton. I think Hawk is the last Sox GM to make a trade with Minnesota, and it was extremely minor. Name any set-up guy in baseball making $5.5 million or more who has been less productive the last 24 months... I don't think you can come up with more names than K-Rod.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:10 PM) Liriano in the bullpen in 2012 7 1/3 IP 7 H 4 R 4 ER 7 BB 9 K 5.07 ERA Your hatred of Thornton makes you not see the truth. I'd take Liriano, I've seen enough of Humber, but you really undervalue Thornton. I think Hawk is the last Sox GM to make a trade with Minnesota, and it was extremely minor. Three factors: 1) In a real playoff race 2) Getting to work with Cooper and Nieves 3) Having two or three pitches OTOH, I don't think Liriano would like it because it would diminish his FA value as a starter. That said, I might ask him as a condition of the trade I was sticking him the pen but offer Gavin Floyd's deal ($9.5 million) for 2013. We know what we're going to get out of Gavin. I'd love to see if we could catch lightning in a bottle with Liriano. Out of Liriano, Danks and Floyd, I'd be the least surprised if Liriano won 15-20 games for the White Sox in 2013. I don't hate Thornton, I just hate how he's pitched since the 2010 All-Star game. He hasn't been worth the money we've paid him. And he's been horrible in almost every save situation. Whatever you want to say about Escobar last Thursday, he gave up hits to Crawford and Gonzalez, the two LHB'ers he's paid to get out with a one run lead.

So basically, they want Alexei Ramirez, Sale/Quintana, Tyler Flowers (back when he was a stud prospect) and Addison Reed. That's it?

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) I was one of those who bought into the Crede connection as late as when he hit his ninth homer this year, but he's had such a long homerless drought that I think he'll just never have enough pop to make up for his pathetic average. You know things are bad for a player when Greg Hibbard notes your "pathetic average."