caulfield12

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 12:18 AM) I'm just saying he doesn't deserve an A after the collapse. Nothing wrong with a B. The team should be ashamed of itself not getting an A for the manager. Bob Melvin should get an A+. But does that mean because his incredible bullpen fell apart Sunday and CoCo Crisp did a Josh Hamilton that he should get a A-/B+ now if they're eliminated in the ALDS in 3 straight games? Some of the best managers aren't even in the playoffs. Some managers who are over-hyped are resting on the laurels of their talent.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:46 AM) I also wouldn't be opposed to signing Marco Scutaro for second base. 156 games had an OBP of .348. Defense takes a hit though, his UZR was -5.6, Beckham was -0.7. Scutaro is likely to fall off, he's too old and you're going to pay him more than he's worth coming off a strong season. This also forces you to move Beckham to 3B, where he's just average defensively. And then you're going to wind up with a net slight defensive downgrade and definitely an offensive downgrade from YOUK at 3B and Beckham at 2B. You need more power from your middle infielders to win at USCF, IMO.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 02:20 AM) This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird. (And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired). It wasn't a colossal failure. The White Sox being in the news doesn't matter except to 4-5 posters, too. Nobody is absolving Ventura and the Sox of blame. It's a different situation because of 1) Ventura's inexperience, and 2) the expectations of everyone coming into the season. What was the statistic, not one national prognosticator out of 45 picked any team for the AL Central title but the Tigers. And that was reflected in the attendance and expectations all season long. KW shot himself in the foot by setting expectations lower and using the "rebuild" phrase at least once. The collapse of the Rangers down the stretch was much more catastrophic...or even the Braves' defense falling apart and costing them the season in a single knockout game. Would you feel any better if you were an Atlanta fan and your team had 90+ wins and then ended the year throwing bottles and garbage all over the field, going into this offseason?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:47 AM) Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05. '05 was magical, but then by this logic we should throw a gigantic contract at Andruw Jones because he used to be an elite player. Coin toss by Rick Hahn's son in 2008.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Oct 7, 2012 -> 09:57 PM) That was einstein's definition. And I fully agree that is was more than medical but it also was not PK's alone to make. My original point is that is was not PK's ego or "macho toughness" alone that made the decision. It was a combination of this plus the management team realizing that what PK could give them was better than whatever else they had. I also agree that they could have shut him down if KW could find a replacement that was better than PK with the injured wrist. In hindsight PK was bad but I don't think they really had any other option on the team or in the minors. The best option available was either Dan Johnson OR playing Wise in LF, Viciedo at DH (including his poor performance against RHP) and Dunn at 1B. Those 2 or Konerko staying in the line-up at 75%.

Thought Greg would enjoy this information...by the way, David Samson is Loria's son-in-law. Jeffrey H. Loria (born November 20, 1940[1]) is an art dealer and the owner of the Miami Marlins. Raised in Manhattan, Loria took an early interest in baseball, attending his first New York Yankees game in the late 1940s. Loria attended New York City's Stuyvesant High School[2] and Yale University, where he initially took pre-med courses. With a requirement to take a history class, Loria chose art history. After college, he worked in a newly-established art-buying program for Sears, launched with the help of actor Vincent Price. In 1965, at the age of 24, he opened his private art dealing business, Jeffrey H. Loria & Co., on Manhattan's Upper East Side and wrote a book, Collecting Original Art. He specializes in 20th century masters. His collection includes works by Pablo Picasso and Henry Moore. Loria graduated from Columbia Business School in 1968 and published his second book, What's It All About Charlie Brown?, a look at life through the Peanuts comic strip (co-written with Pat K. Lynch). Loria, who still runs his art dealership, is a member of the board of directors of the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law of Yeshiva University in New York. He formerly served on the board of the Art Dealers Association of America. Loria, who splits time between homes in New York and South Florida, supports hospitals, educational institutions and museums around the world with charitable contributions. from wikipedia.com

Well, somehow that's NOT a surprise. OAK continuing to be jinxed in the post-season, dating back to the Jeremy Giambi/Derek Jeter play at home way back when.

Craziest part of that whole inning was Reddick hitting a homer after K'ing 6 consecutive times in the series before that AB. Uh-oh, Tigers rallying against the previous nearly untouchable Cook. Can't believe it, 2 runs scoring this inning on wild pitches.

Just like the Orioles, Tigers have the better bullpen. Tigers 77-0 last year with leading after 7, "just" 72-7 this year, but still much better than the White Sox. Amazing turnaround, fans turning on Benoit like the Rangers' fans turned on Hamilton. Cespedes stealing 2nd and 3rd without much of a challenge reminiscent of the White Sox defensive struggles in past seasons controlling the running game. What's even crazier is the score easily could be 5-1, if not for the CoCo Crisp error and the Avisail Garcia one bounce throw home. That kid's going to be a monster if he develops power to go with that body. He's looking like a possible five tool outfielder, the last thing the White Sox need in our division.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 07:03 PM) I agree with this post. Stuff to me isn't necessarily velocity on the fastball; to me it's hard, late break on a breaking ball, fade & sink on a change, speed differential/movement(especially late) on the fastball, etc. The fastball is the most important pitch but the secondary offering(s) dictate to a large degree the effectiveness of the fastball. Your Thornton point is an excellent example of this, i.e. he doesn't really have the "stuff" he just has a hard fastball that hitters can sit on when he's not locating and popping the glove with it. Neither Santiago nor Quintana are "stuff" pitchers. Both are deceptive lefties that need to get ahead with the fastball to be effective, and when the bench has them inexplicably trying to pitch backwards it just doesn't work. The idea that Santiago has better "stuff" IMO is just all screwball hype and the fact that his fastball speed is higher. But if you watch Santiago theres no sharp break on anything he seems to throw, the slider doesn't have much bite, the fastball is pretty straight, and the screwball IMO would be better as a straight change. I'm not standing in the batters box so I obviously don't know, but to me it seems like the speed of the screwball is what is getting the hitters, not the movement, and the fastball is the effective pitch (aided by deception) and actually, I think the movement on the change/screwball is helping the hitters identify it earlier which allows them to hit it easily when he leaves it up. Santiago doesn't really have more than 1 good pitch IMO. Q OTOH I see as having far better command, but he just lost strength as the year went on and left a lot more pitches over the plate. IMO Quintana's change is better than Santiago's screwball, his slider is better, his 4-seam and cutter command is better, etc. and all together it makes him harder to square up the ball on, therefore he has better stuff. But the FB is the best pitch for both pitchers, and neither have any kind of knockout secondary pitch, so both are deception-based lefties who need to overachieve basically. To that end, Q is farther along, closer to a finished product, has more tools in the shed, etc. and if you have to keep one I think it's very easy to pick. What I like about both pitchers is the mentality they have. Santiago has a nice floor also, being that (IMO) if he can't be a #3 type in the end, you can think of him as a #5, and if he can't be that then he can be a lefty setup man, and worst case scenario assuming he stays healthy he is at least an effective lefty specialist. So if you're a team looking to acquire a package of young players for your proven vet, Santiago is the type of guy you want, ala pretty good ceiling, very nice floor, MLB ready right now, definitely going to contribute, overachiever type mentally, hard worker, etc. I do think Santiago is definitely traded this offseason. You can't run out 4 lefties, and Danks and Sale are sticking. Q is closer to being ready I think, and with Santiago you're selling his potential short if you keep him and move him to the pen. IMO Q slots as the ideal #5 in a 3-lefty rotation because with Sale as your #1 you can go from a deceptive pitch to contact lefty on one day to a legitimate wipe-out machine the next. It's hard to justify throwing 2 similar types of lefties after each other to the same hitters on consecutive days, and it's just as hard to justify going from a "stuff" guy first to a Buehrle type second, but Quintana to Sale IMO would work very well. Add Santiago in the mix and one of the lefties is going to get lit up a bit I think. Agree, in general. FWIW, Cooper is a huge Santiago fan. I always thought of Hector as Johan Santana Lite, IF he could develop an effective off-speed pitch, like Johan's deadly change. And the lefty I think MOST in danger of getting lit up by following Quintana is probably Danks. We can probably agree Sale is quite unique and the other 3 (Q/Santiago/Danks, even Buehrle) have more similarities, making repeating them in a rotation, particularly in a four game series (haven't checked the schedule to see how many of these we have for 2013) particularly troublesome.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 06:06 PM) Jenks had some of the best stuff I've ever seen. 100+ FB, 2+Curves, +Slider, +Change and a Cutter. Dude was just flat out unfair. There are too many variables to determine how much of an effect a catcher has from one year to the next. I do know that his pitch calling was predictable and he didn't like to change eye levels enough. He also didn't call for enough pitches in the dirt with 2 strikes. I'm not going to speculate why, but I have a feeling of what it was. He's never been good at blocking pitches...whether it's laziness or just poor technique or a combination of both. The "changing eye level" thing was thrown out there a lot with Addison Reed, as well. Just like changing managers was largely credited as a plus (getting rid of the Ozzie distractions and having a level-headed manager in the Bob Melvin mold), we'll have lots of theories next year if the pitching staff struggles WITHOUT AJ.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 05:56 PM) Jones doesn't get swings and misses on the fastball because he doesn't know how to pitch yet. He needs to elevate it more. AJ's pitch calling isn't helping either. Crain's lost some velocity, but his breaking stuff is nasty when he's on and he can throw it for strikes. We'll see. Remember when Jenks came up in 2005, he didn't know how to pitch yet either but his raw stuff carried the day. Same catcher as today. With AJ likely gone, we'll find out the affect he really had (or didn't) on this pitching staff in 2013, in all likelihood.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 09:16 AM) There ya go. Worst collapse belongs to the Rangers. Seems they are going in the direction of trading Kinsler, Cruz, playing Profar and Andrus together....Leonys Martin could be the RFer, that's where they are going to have to worry about losing too much offense. Rios might be interesting for them, as they clearly won't bring back Hamilton now. They have to figure out what to do with Michael Young, as well. They could trade Martin Perez, Olt/Gallo and some combination of Kinsler/Andrus/Cruz to make a super package to get anyone in the game, almost. Napoli could also be an interesting name for the White Sox to consider. By Kevin Sherrington / Columnist ksherrington@dallasnews.com 11:21 pm on October 5, 2012 | Permalink Too many players make mistakes on this club and shrug them off. Too many guys picked off, too many errors on routine plays, too many bad at bats. If the players won’t police themselves, then, it’s up to the manager. But that’s not Ron Washington’s style, either. He asks a lot of a veteran bunch, with seven on the wrong side of 30 going out day after day after day. Granted, he had an awfully short bench. But when GM Jon Daniels gave him Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt, Washington didn’t take advantage of them. Funny, then, when he sent Profar up to the plate in the ninth against Baltimore’s closer, Jim Johnson, and Profar lines his first pitch the opposite way for a single. The rally ended there, though, as did any other rally Friday the last 18 games. When the Red Sox suffered through a meltdown of their own last season, it cost Terry Francona his job. And he had a couple of World Series titles on his resume. Washington made mistakes this season, the most glaring his blind loyalty to Michael Young. The manager won’t lose his job. The hitting coach, Scott Coolbaugh, may take one for the team, though. Possibly Gary Pettis, too. Hitting and baserunning were not Ranger strengths. Other changes should come, too. The Rangers need to see what Profar can do, and it doesn’t need to come in pinch hit appearances. Bottom line: Ian Kinsler should have taken his last uppercut as a Ranger. In many ways, he symbolizes the Rangers’ woes. A player of vast potential, he didn’t come close to it this season. Too many errors, too many pickoffs, too many shrugs. He has good trade value, though, and his exit opens up a position for Profar. Give Profar a year or two at second, and the club can make an educated guess on what to do when Elvis Andrus’ contract comes up in two seasons. The Rangers need to get younger. They need more pitching, too. Daniels should put together a package of Kinsler and perhaps Martin Perez, maybe even Mike Olt, and see what it brings. Tampa Bay will trade a pitcher this off-season. James Shields? David Price? How about Josh Johnson, a perennial target? They need better production out of first base. They need to make a decision on Young’s role. They need to change their style if they don’t bring Hamilton back. Daniels has plenty of decisions to make in the next few months. The arc of any team, no matter how good, always descends eventually. By any measure of what we’ve seen as the last two seasons have played out, that time has come. He seemed to work the room quite well Friday. Let’s hope it takes.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Jones, Crain and Veal have the best "stuff" on the team IMO. Obviously it's subjective though. We're talking starters, though, at least I thought. Jones still has struggled against RHB'ers and while he pitched well in stretches, he also doesn't get nearly as many swings and misses on his fastball as one would expect. He throws a very "light" fastball. You watch lots of other guys throwing 97-100 MPH, they're totally dominant with the fastball alone. Jones can't get away without having a breaking pitch he can get over. Crain's lost something off his fastball from 3-5 years ago, probably due to overuse by the Twins.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 02:33 PM) Yeah well my own eyes tell me different so I guess we'll just disagree. Jose pitches to contact & throws fewer pitches. Santiago OTOH pitches for the K and his pitch count shows it, along with his career BB numbers. K total doesn't always correlate to raw stuff. Neither pitcher is really a "stuff" pitcher anyway. Both are deceptive lefthanders. That screwball isn't going to work over a full MLB season, just my opinion, and if Santiago stays here and works a full season as a starter than I certainly hope I'm wrong. If you define "stuff" as someone who consistently pitches at 95+, then you're only going to be talking guys like Scherzer and Verlander. When they're on, Gavin Floyd has the best overall stuff on the staff (and clearly, many would argue a healthy and rested Chris Sale still has the better overall arsenal), but his fastball is about the same velocity as Santiago's. The main difference with Santiago and Quintana is the same thing we've seen with Danks recently, or even Matt Thornton...they have a hard time fooling hitters with the stuff they do have, they don't get nearly as many swings and misses. Lacking a true put-away pitch, Santiago's essentially another Mark Buehrle with a tick faster FB but obviously you need to have pinpoint control to get away with that consistently. Quintana did have an extended string of great pitching, until he faded down the stretch. So is he Humber or Buehrle? Probably something in between. But yeah, one thing that was impressive about Quintana in the first half of his starts was keeping his pitch count so low and not extending the game into the bullpen in the 5th and 6th innings.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 12:48 PM) It wouldn't be the worst idea if they cant swing a trade for a 3B but can get a 2B...Like an Ian Kinsler maybe, the Rangers have Jurrickson Prufair (or whatever his name is) who seems ready to produce. Maybe Kinsler might be available and they might want Rios as a return is Hamilton leaves. Or maybe even Michael Young who can play some 3B or 2B. Look at Young's contract. We improved in 2012 partly because of our defense. The last thing you want is Young playing anywhere but DH or 1B. I would imagine they would be more likely to trade Andrus (to make room for Profar) than Kinsler (being pushed out with Andrus going to 2B), but it's just a guess.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 09:30 AM) What's the goal for 2013? Surely it's to please/placate/appease the fanbase.

Maybe positive forward momentum doesn't exist in baseball, but negative momentum definitely does. Look at the Braves and Red Sox last year, or the White Sox and Rangers this season.

Here's one of the more amazing statistics of the season, as much as their record in extra inning and 1 run games, reminiscent of the 2005 Sox. Orioles 74-0 when leading after 7 innings and 75-1 when leading after 8. Along with our hitting with RISP, our bullpen and managerial decision process (with removing starters and bullpen moves, Olmedo, Jose Lopez, not playing Johnson) in August and September really are the 3 factors that hurt the White Sox the most. Forgot Thome was on the Orioles. Will be happy to see them beat the Yankees, but I'm not sure I'm interested in Baltimore, DET or Oakland in the World Series. As long as it's not the Yankees, I guess. It would be cool if Oakland somehow made it, as much as Beane has his share of detractors...just for the sake of getting a new stadium financed and/or a final answer to their relocation dilemma. Balt and Washington would be interesting for obvious reasons, and St. Louis would again prove having a so-so regular season doesn't mean anything once you get to OCT.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 5, 2012 -> 12:15 AM) This might be the reason why they can't get the job done after ASB. The bench is always beyond bad. By that theory, Kotsay and Jones should have worked over Thome, but it didn't. All depends on the quality of the players in the platoon. Assuming Wise and/or Johnson would have excelled with 350 or so at-bats, and that Viciedo would still have crushed LH'ers with just limited plate appearances, that's a guessing game at best.

We don't play them until July. So we should keep Peavy, then trade him before we face the Tigers again, haha.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Oct 4, 2012 -> 11:23 PM) We have the trade pieces. Quintana + change could easily get it done if the Mets are convinced Wright is leaving after 2013. They'll undoubtedly pick up the option before moving him, so we'll have to make room for $16 million. Quintana and change? That would get laughed at...half of SoxTalk doesn't think he's (Quintana) going to last for all of 2013 as a starter again, and yet the Mets will accept making him the centerpiece of a trade for their best player? Keep in mind, the Yankees gave him up for nothing...they didn't even protect him. There's just no way the Mets could sell a move like this to their fanbase.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2012 -> 10:37 PM) Now that is one helluva post. I don't get White Sox fans. They just seem to WANT to be bored. First they want Ozzie out, colorful Ozzie. They get their wish with very very dull Robin. Now they want Hawk out. It'd serve you Hawk haters right to get the Royals' Steve Physioc. Mr. Enunciation. AWFUL. What's with this desire for dullishness???? I just don't get it. Keep Hawk. Let Ozzie be his color man 20 games since he's getting the boot in Miami; Big Hurt 20 games; DJ 20 games, Wimpy 20 games, etc. It's obvious Stoney is gone after that interview. I'm in the middle about Harrelson leaving or staying. Personally, I like him. For the future of the organization (and for expanding the fanbase again), a new voice has to be groomed, though. Rotating broadcasters in and out of the booth is complicated, it hurts the chemistry between PBP and color guy, you don't develop a rhythm as much and it's a bit confusing to viewers at home. When you turn on a Dodgers' game, you know Scully, Cardinals with Jack Buck, Tigers with Harwell, etc. There's something to be said for that. Hawk is that voice, for now. But he's getting more and more polarizing, just like Harry Caray at the end of his broadcasting career, or Ron Santo.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 4, 2012 -> 10:43 AM) Scoring 713 at the Oakland Colosseum is a far better offensive performance than scoring 748 at US Cellular Field. Most importantly, Oakland had better starting pitching, and a MUCH better bullpen, especially the 2nd half of the season.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 4, 2012 -> 09:22 PM) Worst collapse this season belongs to the Rangers. If they lose in the WC game, sure. But look at 2006, the Twins chased down the Tigers and the Tigers "collapsed" down the stretch, except the Tigers were the ones in the end close to winning the World Series if not for all those errors. Do you think any Tigers' fan looking back on 2006 cares they didn't win the AL Central? Or that Twins fans, having watched their team decimate baseball for 2 1/2 months, feels satisfied how that season ended in the playoffs for them? If the Rangers advance and finally win the World Series, none of their fans will care at all. In fact, it will add to the legend, like the Red Sox coming from way back against the Yankees. It would make a World Series win all the sweeter...just like how in 2005, we very nearly didn't make it, then ended up winning it all. None of us will forget that feeling of dread and forboding in September...which made the elation of winning it all that much more poignant and memorable, to go through the highs and lows of that entire season.