caulfield12

QUOTE (Real @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 02:00 AM) I'm not sure what your point was, you can't possibly be saying the D'Backs situation is the rule, not the exception No, that can't be.. No, only that there are certain guys like Gibson who simply demand respect and can change the atmosphere/chemistry around quite quickly. Of course, that's not always the case. Sometimes no matter how talented the manager, he's not a good fit or the players just aren't good enough or performing through no fault of his own. Sometimes a grizzled old guy loses touch with the current generation of athletes. Lou Piniella with the Cubs, for example. But it's not like the DBacks got a huge infusion of talent in the offseason. They've basically won with 8 utility players and Justin Upton. Obviously, Hudson has helped a lot, too. But Ian Kennedy's become a Top 3 NL Cy Young candidate out of nowhere and many underperforming players turned their career trajectories around.

So Walker will quietly leave the White Sox at the end of the season, along with Baines? One would assume Cox is gone too. I read somewhere that Cora and quite possibly Omar Vizquel would be going with Ozzie to Florida.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 01:57 AM) Very true. Should be interesting to see how he rebuilds the team. He won the war vs. Ozzie now ...good luck turning this bunch into a winner, KW, considering payroll, and a pitching staff that consists of Floyd, Danks, Humber and Stewart and ?. That is a last place pitching staff. The bullpen is very unreliable. The new manager is just gonna get FRIED on here, cause we know how this board gets upset when the wrong choice is made. And the Sox have a bunch of relievers (with exception of Sale n Sergio) who fail a lot. And as great as Sergio is, he blew what, six saves? That's not exactly phenomenal, though I do like him n his potential. If Sale becomes a frontline starter, the rotation will be just fine. One thing that hasn't been brought up today is what will happen with Rick Hahn now.

QUOTE (Real @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 02:46 AM) also, lets get one thing straight, a new manager doesn't usually get the respect of his players in his first year and sometimes it takes a couple years for them to get used to the new guy i don't expect much now going in to 2012, whereas with Ozzie, I hoped talent and complacency would prevail, but with a new mgr, i'm not so sure Kirk Gibson and his coaching staff in Arizona might disagree with you. If anything, Ozzie was much more effective and had more respect from the players in 2004-06 than any point thereafter. The longer he was here, the greater the likelihood of him losing the team became.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 02:37 AM) I just read all the articles on the Trib and Sun Times Web sites and the players praised Ozzie. From reading the board I got the impression Konerko was blasting him, etc. AJ said he loved him like a member of the family. We read what we want to read into things. I don't think he looks selfish at all. I can't believe KW is winning this battle. Yet the basic feeling all around was that it was definitely time for him to move on....that the "regime had run its course." Nobody can take 2005 away from him or Sox fans. It's just unfortunate the last 3 seasons have really tarnished his tenure in Chicago. If he would have left for the Marlins job after leading the Sox to the playoffs in 2008, the feeling would be 100% different from most posters here.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 01:20 AM) Four years? Good for u, Ozzie Guillen. You sir are set for life 10 times over. Wish I had some of that money. I guess the new definition of rich has changed from $1 million to $4-5 million at some point in the last two decades.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 01:08 AM) Ozzie gets the moolah. Good for him. s***, double the salary according to Sun Times? Four mill a year? Take the money and run. Keeing KW is a fricking joke. Fire him as well and it'll be a better week for Sox fans. 4 years, $16 million guaranteed. 8X what he was set to make with the Sox for 2012. Ozzie's more about Ozzie these days than the White Sox. It's not like Forte or Alexei Ramirez and he was being woefully-underpaid. As Rosenbloom pointed out, he had a fair contract for 2012 and he didn't want to honor it. Surely, the writing was on the wall with many of the same underperforming players expected to be on the roster accompanied by the expected payroll slashing. He quit on the team when the going got rough. Another article mentioned that he already made $23+ million during his playing career and something like $10-15 million (he made $1.1 million in 2007) as a manager. With endorsements and autograph sessions and all those ancillary revenues, the guy has made roughly $40 million and yet he's always complaining about being poor. What world does he live in?

While the Marlins will grab plenty of headlines over the next few years, the real winner here may be the White Sox. They had to be tiring of Guillen's continual public blathering about his contract situation, especially considering a year remained at about $2 million. No one else could have gotten away with talking so much about themselves when the team was desperately trying to remain in the race. But that is the gift of Ozzie. He can act selfishly, even petulantly, and folks think it's funny. White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, who has long loved Guillen, met with the manager today. But Reinsdorf seemed to support his GM Williams more in recent months, according to people familiar with the situation. While Williams isn't exactly the picture of calm behind the scenes, he's quieter publicly and a better team player. One person familiar with Reinsdorf's thinking hinted that his first choice to replace Guillen may be someone currently managing in the big leagues, and the natural speculation will focus on the iconic Tony La Russa, who is among Reinsdorf's best friends and whom Reinsdorf has regretted firing as White Sox manager for more than two decades. La Russa is on a one-year deal with the Cardinals, who are still battling for the NL wild card. In 2003, Williams shocked folks by hiring Guillen over his old Blue Jays manager Cito Gaston after an interview in which Guillen challenged Williams, and fought with Williams. Unfortunately, the fighting never stopped, escalating in recent years with one of Guillen's sons unabashedly ripping his father's boss on Twitter. Their relationship never seemed the same after middle son Oney Guillen kept targeting Williams, according to people familiar with the situation. I wouldn't blame Williams for wanting Ozzie to go. If Ozzie can't contain his own son, how can he be expected to manage the team? Guillen will always be recalled for winning the first World Series in decades for the White Sox, in 2005, overcoming clubhouse dissension late in the season to roll through the playoffs with unhittable pitching and Ozzie pulling the strings. But the winning slowed down, and the dissension never did. It was time for the White Sox to stop the madness. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writ...l#ixzz1Z8OvVgTB

F--- more years," said Guillen. "I want more money. I don't work here for years. No, I want more money. Years -- what, I'm going to die poor with the White Sox? Hell, no." Guillen wanted an extension and a significant raise from the $2 million or so the Sox were believed to be paying him. With the Marlins, who move into a new stadium next season, Ozzie will get both: more years AND more money. Lots of it. And with it, he said, will come happiness. Probably safe to say no one's going to have the personality that he has. I'll take the under on that. Ozzie's Ozzie. It's been a wild eight years. -- White Sox first baseman Paul Konerko "Life is about money," Guillen said. "People don't believe that. People are happy after they make money. F--- it." Reinsdorf was smart to agree to a divorce now -- not because Guillen has forgotten how to manage and win (he hasn't), but because a year of Guillen is like dog years. He can't help but wear out his welcome. http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...g-ozzie-guillen

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 01:21 AM) Osvaldo seems like a AAA caliber SS. Had a real good overall season in 2010, but has been miserable this year. BA had him #5 Florida prospect heading into the year. No real concern about who's in this trade though. Osvaldo for Oswaldo? Too funny. It's like the Berry/Barry thing again with LA. At least KW has a sense of humor.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/site/newspap...,1331283.column I wonder if Buerhle was saying "shut up" more directed to Ozzie or just the whole situation in general with KW/Ozzie going back and forth, back and forth like a ping pong match. Will be interesting to see how this affects the situation with Buehrle returning, especially if Cooper's back. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosen...,3561864.column Will be interested to greg775's reaction to this one...he really leveled the boom on Ozzie.

"I wish I had a dollar for every time that I had that thought, why did it have to come to this? But I don't have answers," Williams said, doing his best Kenny "The Genius" Williams upset act. "It's tough to pinpoint exactly where we got off track. Winning cures a lot of that. We are all very competitive around here, and ­sometimes with that competitive drive, frustration comes with it." Cowley yet again with the "Kenny "The Genius" Williams" label inserted into a story involving KW. He's more biased than Fox News. LOL. Can't even use that word related to a famous sign in the hills overlooking LA. http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/27/2426...-headed-to.html

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 11:49 PM) Don't worry, Martinez will find a way to get it even if it's the property of someone else. Hmmm...wonder how many caught that one? It would be really interesting if Sandberg and Martinez were managing the Cubs and Sox. Would definitely dial up the intensity on that rivalry again.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) Never said that, you bring in a vet.. if you truly going all in... If you watched Dunn the 2nd half of last year.. you wouldn't be telling me how great he was. Do we have the Red Sox, Phillies or Yankees payroll? They have glaring holes in their roster make-up, too, especially their rotations (Red Sox/Yankees). So basically you would have blocked Beckham and Morel coming into 2011? And you'd have spent another $8-10 million on a veteran closer? Sure must be nice to spend someone else's money.

QUOTE (chiguy79 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) This is just part of the mass exodus about to take place, sox will get a cheap manager to fill in while they cut payroll and try to reload. Q, MB and AJ will all be gone. Season ticket holders are going to be cut in half and avg attendance next year will be If that happens, Victory claims JR will get paid a sizeable subsidy anyway from the State of Illinois. And AJ won't be easy to trade with a $6 million contract. Not like Danks or Floyd will be.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 09:28 PM) This is the last time I'll ever type this, but who the hell cares about what type of personality a manager has off the field if their personality on the field is completely different? Apparently Greg would be pissed if he was a Royals fan even if they made the playoffs because of the "plain vanilla" personality of Ned Yost. Because your manager leading the majors in getting in news stories (the majority negative) is more important. All/any publicity is good publicity, etc. Face of the franchise, blah blah blah.

There's ZERO chance Cora will be named the manager of the Chicago White Sox. By the way, Octavio Blotel just might have torched the Cardinals' chances of overtaking the Braves. Makes the LaRussa rumors gain more steam if the Cardinales fall short and Pujols goes elsewhere.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) Why would I be happy? He's a great manager. No surprise though. It was obvious he'd be gone for a long time. Get ready for a KW puppet. I'd expect next season most fans will turn on KW when we suck again. Hard to blame Ozzie for next year when he's sunning in Florida. In case you haven't noticed in the game threads, the White Sox have been irrelevant for most of this season. It can't get any worse.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:17 PM) Ahhh when your first try failed... Now make excuses for Kenny.. Let's talk about how this is ozzie's fault? Your side lost, JR picked KW over Ozzie. Please get over it by making a "straw man" argument that JJ Putz should have been the closer. That will deflect all the attention away from reality. Or provide a bitter diatribe like Greg775 that will be entertaining to read in a couple of seasons when Loria and the fans in South Florida lose patience with the Guillen clan.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) Smartest move the Marlins ever made. Sox are close to being irrelevant in this town of Chicago, losing a headline stealer like Ozzie. If you think that's not important in this Cubbie-town I believe u are mistaken. KW better make some significant changes cause the manager wasn't the problem with this poorly built team. Ozzie's better off in Florida. I hope the Sox make significant player changes for the Buddy Bell era. It's no fun being on the downslide. The Royals are coming and we are sliding personnel-wise. Good luck, Ozzie. You are the best manager in Sox history. Good luck, Ozzie successor. This season sucked and we fans want to have something to cheer about during the season as well as the postseason. KW won't make the same mistake again. He'll hire a Williams puppet. Hope he picks a good man. I wanna win. If they pick Buddy Bell, they're even more idiotic than I thought.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:13 PM) Was that have to do with this year.. He had 44 saves in 2011... Another bad move by Kenny... This is getting to easy to mount a case against Kenny.. Putz was pretty erratic in the 2nd half last year. He was far from a sure thing. Pitching in the NL West is a different animal than taking on the Rangers, AL East, Twins last year, Angels, etc.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) Maybe Morrison is back in the picture? NOPE. Two unnamed minor leaguers. Let the speculation begin if either are Top 10 prospects. But no Morrison. I'm sure they are all looking forward to the tweeting between LoMo, Ozzie and Oney.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:10 PM) Never was a Soriano Fan even in ATL. one theory debunked. I wanted Jenks traded after 07... So there goes that theory.. I agree on Santos not being a main reason... But thinking not having a closer in April, you are fooling yourself. And Kenny is the problem here... Now we will get to see it, as this team fails to make ,500 in 2012. And Ozzie is no longer the scapegoat. And I wanted Mariano Rivera signed by the Sox as a teenager in Panama but Netscape barely existed then so you would have a hard time finding my post on it.

OZZIE GUILLEN REPORTEDLY NEXT MARLINS MANAGER: Chicago Sun-Times reported tonight the Marlins and White Sox are close to a deal that would make Guillen the new manager here as the Miami Marlins open the new ballpark next spring. ESPN-Chicago later reported the deal was done and that Chicago would received two unnamed Marlins minor league players. Guillen is under contract in Chicago through 2012 so the White Sox would be owed compensation. Guillen, 47, won a World Series ring as Marlins third-base coach in 2003 before beginning an eight-year stint as CWS manager. In 2005 he became the first Latin American manager (Venezuela) to win a World Series, though the Sox have made the playoffs only once since. Guillen, who has a home in Miami, is as known for his eccentricities and outspokenness as he is for his managing. I like the presumed hiring, assuming the compensation was not a frontline player. Guillen, for all his quirks, is a proven winner and would be the biggest "name" manager the club has had since Jim Leyland. Your thoughts welcome. Vote now and say why. Read more: http://blogs.herald.com/random_evidence/20...l#ixzz1Z7QEIcUT 88.1% so far of the Miami Herald fans "LIKE" the move of bringing in Guillen (mostly votes from Victory, Marty and Greg775), versus the other options of undecided or dislike

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) He got 44 saves this year... That's 5-10 more wins on this years team. Surprised you weren't advocating picking up Rafael Soriano. Oops, he kind of sucks this year. But he was another proven closer. Too bad we don't have you on the record in the offseason saying they should have kept Jenks or paid Putz a risky multi-year contract with his injury history. If he went bad, like Peavy, you would have blamed it on KW. Santos has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with our team finishing in 2nd place. A rate of 80-85% conversion isn't bad at all for a closer. 85%+ is ideal, but he's still learning and he's one of the cheapest players on the team. But apparently you desired a $135-140 million payroll.