caulfield12

QUOTE (SI1020 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 08:20 PM) I hope so but he disappointed greatly last September. He was never quite the same after that hand injury and perhaps not getting promoted when he was the hottest hitter in the minors distracted him... So we'll see what we actually have for the first time this year, both offensively and defensively. I certainly wouldn't put more precedence or emphasis on his 2011 MLB stats and throw out the progress (especially plate patience/walks) he made the last 2 years in AAA. Going off a brief set of AB's, we might be clamoring for Tyler Flowers as the starting catcher, too. And DeAza still needs to prove himself over a full season.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 07:52 PM) I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here...but I think it's fairly reasonable to say that Cuban players who have never set foot in the United States might feel most comfortable with a manager fluent in Spanish, and an iconic Latino as well. Just that Ozzie seems to play favorites and never got along very well with the likes of Ordonez, Orlando Cabrera (from neighboring/rival country), Carlos Lee, Alex Rodriguez (yeah, I know he's Dominican-NYC)...but all the time Ozzie was manager, we were never really able to lure a player to the Sox because of that one factor, specifically, a Venezuelan. Except for F. Garcia and I guess Omar Vizquel ten years too late. The Sox Venezuelan baseball academy hasn't produced much, if anything, at all. I would have expected more in 8 years..although I guess we did "almost" get Cabrera...we didn't go hard after Victor Martinez, either. Wonder if Ozzie told KW he didn't want him? Supposedly we offered him a decent contract, or maybe it was just a smokescreen from the agent because that deal came together in just a couple of days, seemingly out of nowhere. No way of knowing what really happened behind the scenes. On the other hand, El Duque, Contreras and Alexei have all had success under Ozzie...but Guillen never really warmed to Viciedo either.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 07:37 PM) a) He started in CF for Cuba in the WBC in 2009 b) I have no idea, I'm not sure how we'd get a good sample size, but he does appear to have a plus arm, good range and athleticism based on video footage. Of course, none of that matters if you get bad jumps or take bad angles, so I can't say. c) Looks like he has power to all fields from the right side, but no clue about his eye. He had some decent clutch hits for Cuba in the WBC. I don't know who his comp would be. I've never seen a guy with his build before. He literally looks like a running back with the athleticism of an NBA player but he's playing the wrong sport. I guess he mostly reminds me of Soriano in his prime? That's a terrible comp, ignore that. No idea about his eye, by the way. d) To me, he looks about as can't-miss as a player can be, in that he has obvious upside in every regard. Of course, there's no such thing as a "can't miss" prospect, especially a hitter. Hitters of all scouting grades fail to make the adjustment to major league pitching. e) If it's the Sox vs. the field, I'd say no. But, I think the Sox have the best chance of everyone based on cleared salary and the established Cuban presence on the team. That may change without Ozzie. (There's some fuel for you, Greg!) Or why we've added four Venezuelan players to our organization when basically the last 2-3 seasons it was only Infante, Clevland Santeliz, Omar Vizquel and Freddy Garcia.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) Well, I haven't completely given up on the idea we might be able to contend in the s***ty Central if all goes exceedingly well (though loss of Mark and CQ make me think we'll be way worse than last year) so I'd be against dealing Floyd at this time. I'm not all that high on Zach and KW is the guy who brought in Teahen in the first place so getting rid of him, while nice, is not a feather in KW cap. But Viciedo is pretty likely to be just as productive as Quentin was last season....since Carlos missed 40 games roughly and only had 77 RBI's. Plus you're saving a bit of money. DeAza >> Pierre Buehrle, you're right...that's been the key loss. (You can clearly blame that on Dunn/Rios and Peavy to a lesser extent). And if Reed doesn't put up an 80% conversion rate as closer, that move could look disastrous as well, depending on how Sergio does night in and night out against tougher competition in the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays. Once again, the toughest losses to absorb SHOULD BE Buehrle and Thornton/Crain/Floyd. If Floyd goes, we're pretty much writing off competing in 2012 unless he's replaced by a pitcher with an even longer term deal like Edwin Jackson or Oswalt (and I wouldn't give him what he's asking for with all the wear and tear on that arm).

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 07:24 PM) Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me? a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him? I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside? Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=15469 RF probably with Viciedo in LF...he's more athletic by far (50 inch vertical) but still not a true CFer. Best hitting prospect in Cuba of his generation...perhaps the best since Omar Linares. Definitely more "can't miss" than Viciedo and Alexei Ramirez were described when they came out, although the frenzy over Cespedes is closer to what happened with Viciedo (an open bidding war) than with the unheralded/underappreciated Ramirez. Sox getting him? Makes a ton of sense...especially if we eventually trade Konerko and stick Dayan at 1B. For 2012, he would cut into the playing time of DeAza, Viciedo and/or Dunn. But he is projected to start in High A ball or AA (or advanced to AA after 6-8 weeks getting his feet wet and growing confidence) and make an impact in the majors in August/September at the earliest. We were pretty aggressive thinking Viciedo might be ready (because of the price tag) coming into 2009 or 2010 and clearly that wasn't the case. But we're talking about the best player in Cuba, along with Gourriel at SS.

Greg, what would your reaction be to trading Gavin Floyd today and signing Edwin Jackson tomorrow? Would the gain of 2 minor league pitchers, Zach Stewart, $10 million of savings on Teahen and bringing back a pitcher who seems more likely to be dominant with the Sox/Cooper be a "good move" or not for KW? And can we really worry about giving up draft pick/s since nobody thinks we'll use them correctly, anyway? Win now, baby!!! Right? Keep in mind the prospects we might be able to get for Floyd would probably be better than Molina alone for Santos...

This is like all the back-and-forth we had over Cabrera being offered arbitration or not being offered... In the end, we got two "sort of decent/possibly promising" pitching prospects another team signed for $700,000 back...and erased Frasor's presence from the payroll. You can't have it both ways...we need Frasor, he's an important piece to the pen, experienced veteran, etc., and then look back at the thread where he signed and claimed to have been against bringing him back. Now those who are against KW for whatever reasons are just using it as another excuse to say "KW has no plan, look at the return for other relievers, we got screwed again, Kenny has no idea what he's doing." 75% of this board was probably against Frasor coming back at that salary, based on his performance in 2011 with us. Maybe even 80 or 85%. Now, because we don't have Frasor, we're consigned to a decade of irrelevance in Chicago? We can all agree the Hudson move wasn't a very good one...what would be the most amusing future development has been pointed out already, bringing back Edwin Jackson and trading Floyd and ending up with 2 decent prospects, Zach Stewart and saving $10 million on Teahen. And we'd get a very nice haul for FLOYD in return as well. The only question is what type of compensation in the draft we'd have to give up, Balta?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming. We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko. He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF? Can he steal bases? If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order. It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!! Borchard fail Thome canned too early by Ozzie Swisher fail

Greg, is it really going to be like this all season long? I hope you give Ventura a fair shake for managing in what one would imagine will be a very trying period of White Sox history. Makes one almost miss the days of arguing about Pierre and Jenks, moreso than the off the field nonsense.

Even if we sign Cespedes, quite a few will be whining about it when he doesn't make the club out of Spring Training...saying it's another Rios/Dunn/Peavy/Beckham bust. OTOH, at least we'd lead the majors in one category, "best highlight/training/batting practice showcase videos" to go along with Viciedo and Harper.

Don't follow up with MELANCHOLIA, MARLEY & ME or WAR HORSE, lol. Try HUGO instead, even WE BOUGHT A ZOO.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:59 PM) HAHAHA!!! AJ's the second best base runner on the Sox in the last 20 years? Surely you jest. Do you work for Hawk or something? Jesus. Clearly not the fastest or anything resembling a basestealer. Smartest/best (based on getting the most out of his God-given abilities), definitely.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...ers/cards/87051 Has mostly been a starter throughout his minor league career, 12 starts in High A last year...18 relief appearances. Throw him into the LHR mix with Santos Rodriguez, Hector Santiago, Hernandez, etc. Probably at least 1 1/2 seasons away, although we've been known to jump lefties quickly, like Radinsky/Logan/Corwin Malone.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) And our team is led by Kenny Williams? Really? Losing is no fun. When there are 2 baseball teams in the same city and one is named the Cubs, the White Sox and their nonlegions of fans (compared to the Flubs) cannot afford to be irrelevant in May every year the next 10 years. 3-5 years, we've managed to pull that off 3 times in the last 30-40 years...a full decade, with Epstein lurking and the potential of a new stadium with Emmanuel as mayor, no way. JR and KW/Hahn have to get this one right.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:44 PM) Great post. I wait for some of the stat people to answer a nice, simple question like this. Our team would be so much better and maybe even some fans would attend the games this season if this winter we just ate the salaries of Dunn/Rios and make trades assuming they were gonzo. We trade a guy who actually tries like Quentin and ocasionally gets red-hot (Quentin is an exciting bat) and keep Mr. Nonchalant Rios (oh I look forward to him gliding after balls this season), when we could just release him. Anybody who buys a season ticket with Rios penciled in for 140 games has to be in need of counseling. Because then we're having to pay $40 million in one lump-sum payment, and there's at least 50/50 odds we'll get a return to respectability out of one or both those guys, and especially Peavy in 2012. Let's say you buy 100 shares of a stock at $80 and the value's all the way down to $20-30. The White Sox believe (and most fans here as well) that those contracts are more likely to return to the $55-75 price range than continuing to decline to $10-15. If Dunn comes anywhere close to as historically as bad a season as 2011, he might walk away...Rios, not so much. At any rate, the only way to get those contracts off the book is packaging them to the mega-rich teams that could absorb that type of hit and would consider it a win if they could bring in Floyd/Crain/Thornton/Ramirez/Danks (2013) as well. The Yankees and Red Sox have shown no willingness to spend that kind of money this offseason. The Rangers and Angels are overextended. That leaves very few teams, with the current state of the Mets and Dodgers.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) Why? The plan is obviously to play as many aging slowfooted veterans as we can to go with nobodies on the mound so we can be out of the race in early June. White Sox baseball slogan: Rebuilding is so much fun or Relevant? Who Needs Relevance? Seriously, did you watch Frasor pitch last season? You think that's irreplaceable? Clearly, he's lost more than notch or two off his stuff from overuse the last 5 years. Also find it amusing when AA drafts those guys and overslots, he's a baseball version of Houdini or Billy Beane...but when the White Sox trade for them, they're in firesale or crisis mode. If we actually were in that position, we would have traded Danks already. The only two players we're likely to trade between now and April (and that could severely harm our chances of being competitive) are the same ones we've all been talking about, Matt Thornton and Gavin Floyd, and Crain, too. Mark Teahen and his wife made the White Sox relevant? Winning games and divisions is what makes us relevant...some of that in 2012 would go a long way towards what's currently ailing the organization and its fans. By the way, Quentin was a slow-footed veteran (of 29). The only slow-footed guy we really should have kept was Jim Thome two seasons ago. Dye, also gone. But we still have Konerko, Dunn and AJ to pacify Greg's desire for Molina-esque speed out of the box...and AJ's really the best baserunner on the team, and the 2nd best I've seen in the last 20 years on the Sox, after Jose Valentin.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:15 PM) You sure are confident that the majority of the Sox farm system will pan out. Considering the Sox track record of producing adequate major league contributors via the farm, I think you should lessen your expectations a bit. Just have much more confidence when we target/acquire other teams' players than drafting/projecting/developing our own guys. That area of the scouting department always seems to do a much better job, for whatever reason.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) Matt Thornton gave us three years as arguably the best left-handed reliever in baseball. That ain't an easy role to fill. And so was Damaso Marte, KW's done it twice in under-the-radar deals. I would highly doubt Hernandez ever becomes THAT good, but anything's possible if you give Cooper talented guys to work with. We've seen too many examples of it to list, and a few noted failures along the way, too.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) Trayce Thompson has all the ability in the world to be a A prospect. Most of these are professional baseball players because they have that potential. That's the point, if you have 10 pitchers like Molina and Zach Stewart who can all potentially be 2-3-4 starters in the big leagues, clearly you're much better off with at least 1-2 of them eventually succeeding in having that impact. Now we have 3 with Castro. You might stretch it and include 4 with Hector Santiago. Axelrod still looks like a back-end guy. In our entire system, the only position players with the raw talent to have an impact are Thompson, Walker and Mitchell, and those are looking like 10-15% odds at best right now. With 10 of them in the system, another couple will actually make it, and hopefully at least one becomes an All-Star caliber player.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) Bingo. The only impact (arguable) prospect Kenny has acquired thus far is Nestor Molina. Disagree. One of the two guys from the Padres, and possibly Marinez from the Marlins, will stick with big league team before July 31st. We just opened up another spot in the pen with the Frasor move. As far as defining impact, Hernandez could evolve into the Matt Thornton role quite easily. That LH reliever slot in the 7th-8th inning is plenty impactful, IMO. Get the general point...let's just see how the next 24 months play out and then we can argue about all of these guys, including Zach Stewart.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) We've loaded up on C/C+ prospects. That really can't move a system that much, really at all. The kid we got from the Padres has all the ability in the world to be a B+ or better, just like Molina. You start the Futures Game, that means everyone is baseball is aware of your existence.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) It serves no good purpose to let anyone know what the plan is. Hey, isn't that what Mao and Stalin said...?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) The all-mighty AA gave him third round money. He has to be good. Knew that one was coming, lol. Where's j4l with his take today, watching NFL or sleeping off the weekend still? I sincerely hope we can't still be the worst MLB farm system in the game at this point. Let's hope we can progress to 25th-27th.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) Then why didn't the Sox draft him in the 3rd or 4th round? Because KW didn't have any more kids available (at least with the same family name)....? Sorry, bad joke. Poor KW

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) You are really stretching that comparison. Apparently Danks wasn't valued as much as we must have thought either and he got $13M a year to stay. I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. And only $8 million this year. It's not until the future forward years the numbers really pick up, when his limited NTC kicks in correspondingly. We're still in "win now/trade in 2013" mode with Danks, in all likelihood. There's flexibility to go either way depending on 2012 results and attendance figures.