caulfield12

http://local.sandiego.com/sports/padres-se...n-trades-rumors Of course, there are some key differences with the Sox, Padres and other teams. We haven't shown a willingness to go through 3-5 years of losing/late 80's and 90's "these kids can play" seasons with long-range development as the strategic plan. We haven't been able to pile up high draft picks, nor have we shown a "concerted willingness" to spend much internationally (beyond Viciedo) and on the June draft. However, we clearly have the ability to post a payroll between $100-130 million, compared to other teams like the Pirates, Royals, Padres, Indians, Blue Jays, Rays, A's, etc., that don't have the organizational/front office resources to jack up their spending. Just thought it was a good "flip side" read to the tenor of most posts (including many of mine!) the last 2-3 seasons of "malaise ball." Now we're oscillating between "complete rebuild" and "rebuilding on the fly" camps. If nothing else, some of us (obviously not Milkman, J4L or Fathom) are starting to buy into the Kool Aid that we can be competitive in 2012, while others remain rightfully a bit skeptical or even cynical where it comes to KW.

Castro, 23, went 7-8 with a 5.63 earned run average in 22 starts between Double-A San Antonio and Triple-A Tucson last season. Going into the 2011 season, Castro was considered one of the top three prospects in the Padres system. But after six starts with Tucson (2-2, 10.17 ERA), the right-hander was detoured to extended spring training and returned to San Antonio, where he finished stronger with the Missions (5-6, 4.33 ERA in 16 starts). Originally signed as a non-drafted free agent in May of 2006, Castro was 29-33 with a 4.24 ERA in 117 games (113 starts), over six minor league seasons in the Padres organization. The left-handed Hernandez, 22, went 10-3 with a 3.49 ERA in 28 games (18 starts) across three levels in the Padres organization last season. The Venezuela native split the majority of his 2011 season between Single-A Lake Elsinore and Double-A San Antonio, going 8-2 with a 3.03 ERA and 87 strikeouts against 16 walks between the two clubs. He also made four starts for Triple-A Tucson last season and has a fastball in the 92-95 mph range.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) 1.) Cespedes will not get $30-$50M and start in AA 2.) The difference between Danks and Ramirez is obvious. Danks will be 27, Ramirez 31. 3.) There isn't one player on that roster, save Sale, that I would hesitate to deal to get a grade A starting prospect. As I've written, they've made nice strides so far shoring up the rotation. Ramirez isn't Magglio Ordonez or C-Lee, he doesn't have the type of frame and body that just goes south like an Andruw Jones in his 30's. There's no reason the White Sox can't be a competitive team in 2012 and 2013. There are certainly arguments why they might not be competitive...but you can't make a convincing case it will be impossible for them to compete in the Al Central, when history shows otherwise. Some would argue Sale should be traded before he loses his value as a starter or suffers a debilitating injury. Of course, upside is off the charts. How confident can we be that will happen? 50/50, at best. Same thing with Viciedo. Although very very few GM's in baseball would trade either one of these two guys without seeing what they can do first. BY THE WAY, does anyone think it's a coincidence that we're adding so many Venezuelan players now that Ozzie's NOT the manager? My count, that's 3, at least.

from baseballamerica.com Simon Castro, rhp Age: 23. Born: April 9, 1988 in San Jose de los Llanos, Dominican Republic. Ht.: 6-5. Wt.: 210. Bats: R. Throws: R. Career Transactions: Signed as nondrafted free agent by Padres, May 8, 2006. Club (League) Class W L ERA G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP Tucson (PCL) AAA 2 2 10.17 6 6 0 25.2 37 30 29 5 18 21 2.14 San Antonio (TL) AA 5 6 4.33 16 16 0 89.1 95 48 43 9 16 73 1.24 Total 7 8 5.63 22 22 0 115 132 78 72 14 34 94 1.44 Owner of the best slider in the Padres system prior to the trade, Castro seemed poised for big things in 2011 as he tackled Triple-A for the first time, but the bubble burst early. Castro landed on the disabled list with a lat injury after six starts for Tucson yielded a 10.17 ERA and 21-18 K-BB ratio. He recovered somewhat after a demotion to San Antonio in June, and he closed out the season on a high note, notching a 35-5 K-BB ratio and 2.53 ERA over his final seven starts. At fault for Castro's regression: out-of-whack mechanics in which he failed to extend on the front side of his delivery and also recoiled his arm. He's always pitched with a long arm action, so the Padres traced his troubles back to his starting assignment in the 2010 Futures Game, in which he allowed two runs in one inning. He hasn't pitched with the same consistency since. Castro's velocity dipped into the high 80s early in the 2011 season before he recovered to pitch at 92-94 mph and touch 96 with tailing action later in the year. His slider showed trademark late bite and 82-84 mph velocity at times, though just as often it resembled a three-quarters slurve. The changeup could be a fringe-average pitch in the mid-80s with more refinement. If Castro rediscovers his two plus pitches and control he still profiles as a mid-rotation arm or set-up reliever. Pedro Hernandez, lhp Age: 22. Born: April 12, 1989 in Barquisimeto, Venezuela. Ht.: 5-10. Wt.: 210. Bats: L. Throws: L. Career Transactions: Signed as nondrafted free agent by Padres, Nov. 1, 2006. Club (League) Class W L ERA G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP Lake Elsinore (CAL) HiA 5 0 2.70 15 6 0 56.2 52 19 17 3 6 44 1.02 Tucson (PCL) AAA 2 1 6.00 4 4 0 18 28 17 12 3 6 7 1.89 San Antonio (TL) AA 3 2 3.48 9 8 0 41.1 39 17 16 4 10 43 1.19 Total 10 3 3.49 28 18 0 116 119 53 45 10 22 94 1.22 Hernandez always has thrown a quality changeup and shown strong command, but his prospect status began to take hold when his velocity began to creep up halfway through the 2010 season. Signed at age 18 out of Venezuela, Hernandez initially topped out near 87 mph but that has since become the low point for his fastball range. The Padres say the lefty has touched 95 on occasion, but more often he sits in the low 90s and works both sides of the plate with a riding fastball. Batters don't pick up the ball well against the short and stocky Hernandez, which helps his solid-average, low-80s changeup play up. Hernandez's mid- to low-80s slider/cutter doesn't elicit much praise, but it could be a fringe-average offering for him in time. Hernandez may not have a deep enough repertoire to start in the big leagues, but he could grow into a nifty lefty reliever capable of facing both righties and lefties. So we have another nice piece to go with Hector Santiago in terms of our LH pitching depth (both starting and relieving)...probably makes it even more certain that Matt Thornton is traded FOR the best haul of the offseason (in comparison to what many are saying about Molina). Marinez (Marlins) and this Hernandez kid will definitely get long looks for the pen coming out of ST. The Sox are going to have to decide ASAP about whether they want Stewart, Santiago and Hernandez as starters or relievers for 2012. Seems more likely now they'll try Hernandez to go with Ohman and let Santiago continue to build up his innings pitched and experience in getting AAA hitters out with the Knights. Here's the problem with scouting reports. Just reading them, it makes it look like KW just fleeced the Padres, acquiring two quality arms (one of them a valuable lefty) for a piece he probably considered non-tendering at different points in the 2011 season (like when he was on the DL).

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 06:28 PM) I can't really look into this myself since I've begun drinking Tank 7s tonight..... but can we look at those Cuban stats for Cespedes and say Alexei's Cuban stats were against comparable competition? Is there some way of finding this out? They played in the same league, so comparable. The problem is that Ramirez was seriously underrated because of 1) his lack of a clear position defensively (he was actually capable all over the field, which worked against him) and his slight frame. Everyone in baseballs knows/knew about Viciedo, Cespedes, Gourriel, Soler, etc. Just don't see the White Sox winning a bidding war...although if anyone is in a position to judge how much he's worth and how good he really is, it's the likes of Contreras, El Duque, Alexei and Tank. Surely, Williams has talked extensively (through interpreters) to both of our current Cuban players about the pro's and con's of acquiring him, and what he brings to the table.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) 1.) At 26, if Cespedes gets between $30-$50M he will not see the minors. 2.) A better pitching prospect than Molina is needed before I'm comfortable with the state of the starters going forward. Plenty of international free agents have been given huge amounts of money and not seen the majors right away. Nobody in baseball thinks this kid is ready for big leagues in 2012...even on a non-contending team. Everyone complains that Beckham was rushed through the system, and then we want to invest 3X-5X what we put into Viciedo and deal with the permanent repercussions when he flops and loses his confidence? Obviously you're setting yourself up for the "trade Alexei Ramirez" comment. By all means, go for it. Why not just package Ramirez and Matty Thornton together in a "super trade" to satisfy Marty alone? You really want Escobar, Martinez or Tyler Kuhn to be our starting SS? Lillibridge? And you think you can just stick him there because he played the position "so-so" 2-3 years ago with the Braves and our team's going to win more than 70 games? Arguably, Brent has played much better because he could relax offensively, not having to worry about the stress of playing SS or a middle infield position (like 2B). Playing the OF is 10X more relaxing mentally. Trade Ramirez but sign Danks? What's the point? We might as well just deal Floyd, Peavy, Ramirez, Thornton, Crain, Frasor, Ohman, Konerko, AJ, etc., get it over with one fell swoop and totally demoralize the entire fanbase. Why are you obsessed with having another pitching prospect, anyway? Our AAA rotation (especially with Zach Stewart there) and AA rotations will be strong as they have been in 2-3 years, Last time I checked, we had 10 "super pitching prospects" about a decade ago and almost none of them panned out...the predicted dynasty never materialized until we acquired Jose Contreras and then it lasted for about 16 months, at most (2005/first half 2006).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 07:51 PM) He said the same thing about Marquez and Nunez. You would have preferred..."Carlos just wasn't worth the money he was going to get in arbitration. He's an injury-prone, one-dimensional player who broods too much and can't offset his defensive weaknesses with consistent offensive production. Dayan's my boy anyway, had to finally stick him in the line-up to justify that huge signing bonus that made me look like a Krazy Genius. And we don't give a crap about these 2 Padres' prospects, maybe Cooper can fix 'em, who the hell knows? Keith Law? He's hated me since the Sirotka Swindle. We just didn't want Carlos to go all Incredible Hulk on us if we non-tendered him, so we gave him some dignity to go with his departure."

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 05:03 PM) It's like the Sox are trying to suck. Couldn't KW have gotten more for CQ had he dealt him at the winter meetings? How could anybody buy season tickets for this team? Maybe a 10-game package if they have those. If I lived in Chicago, five games a summer would be more than enough trips to the Cell to watch this s*** develop. Greg, we had to open up a spot in the line-up for Viciedo to play, period. How many seasons has Quentin been healthy and consistently productive since August, 2008? None, pretty much. Is Quentin the type of player you want to pay $7-10 million down the road for one dimension only, power? Not when you have Viciedo and Dunn signed for 3+ year to do the same exact thing. If nothing else, it's a sign to fans that we're finally going to give our younger players like Viciedo and DeAza (not super young, but should be in his prime) a shot to play full-time...whereas Quentin was never part of the plan for 2013. If KW could have gotten more, he would have dealt him last year at the All-Star break. Every GM in baseball saw the same weaknesses in his overall game that we did, it's not nuclear physics why he wasn't the most desired player on the trade market. I think you're letting your 2008 The Carlos Quentin glasses color your judgment on this deal. Not to mention his Jermaine Dye-ness in RF, where he has been one of the 3 worst defensive RF'ers in the game pretty consistently. This is going to be one of those trades (like the CQ trade itself from the DBacks) that most people around baseball pay little attention to (because really who cares much about the Padres?) but looks like a steal when Quentin's on the shelf for 2-3 months and one of those two pitchers develops into something under the tutelage of Cooper and the minor league instructional staff. If Beckham, Morel, Viciedo and Ramirez hit like they're capable of, as well as Rios and Dunn, then the lack of pop from DeAza isn't such a big issue, and DeAza actually slugged at am impressive clip last year compared to your guy Pierre. Who would want to watch the likes of Mark Teahen, Juan Pierre and Quentin for another year? Not I. Let's face it, Quentin had already peaked with the White Sox and totally gotten pull-happy and away from what made him a great hitter in 2008, and a league MVP-caliber player. DeAza and Viciedo are fresh faces and will bring new energy and excitement to the team. We saw glimpses of it at the end of 2011.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) I hope they can. If they move him and Floyd the payroll would be at ~92M and they could make a serious run at Cespedes. Sign him and put Viciedo on the block. First thoughts went back to five years ago when I was celebrating New Year's on another bridge (last night with seemingly 10 million plus in Shanghai), that time in Prague. Danks/McCarthy. Darned if he didn't do it again, albeit this time a much LESS larger scale trade in the overall scheme of things. First of all, Marty34, are you crazy? Have you ever seen Cespedes play? Have you even watched the video, which seemingly ranks right up there with the Dayan Viciedo Video of 2008? Now you want the White Sox to fork over $30-50 million for this guy? Based on a hunch or theory? Cespedes would arguably be playing all or most of 2012 in High A or AA ball, so how would trading Viciedo help at all? That would make our OF DeAza, Rios and Lillibridge/Jordan Danks. That's honestly what you feel is a good idea? Trading Viciedo "low" is logical? Why/how? Here's the thing, KW has added something like 7 or 9 arms (can anyone think of the others besides those listed below) which are of decent quality or above in the last 6-8 months, correct? Don Cooper is one of the top 3-5 pitching coaches in baseball, yes? Most of Soxtalk wanted to jettison Ozzie Guillen even before 2011 and we still got back two former Top 10 prospects from another organization for him. In Marinez, Zach Stewart, Frasor (his upside is obvious limited, but he did suck with us last year), Molina, the two kids we just picked up from the Padres that both clearly have/had pretty good stuff...we're at least making SOME positive progress to building up our pitching depth chart/s in AA/AAA. If nothing else, we're really filling up the back end of our bullpen for the short term with a ton of prospects.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 30, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) This doesn't so much have to do with your post, but I wanted to chime in about the names you mentioned. I would have spoke up before about it, but I haven't had a chance to talk to the guy about Molina, until now, and this is the first time he brought up Humber. Anyway, I help coach a kids team between ages of 12-14 and one of the kids has a Sox connection, so we get a lot of time, and occasionally special attention, at the Sox-Bulls academy. I have spent more time with the pitchers, than the hitters, but one of the pitching instructors, who works with the kids, is a former minor league pitcher who works with the Sox pitchers as an instructor at the low levels. He said the Sox liked Molina even before Paddy came on board, and got the justification after, and think he is a top of the rotation guy in MLB within a year and a half. He told me he will dominate in the minors this year. The only reason he was available is because he doesn't light up the gun, but he is dominant everywhere else, and his stuff will translate at any level. If he had the innings he would be up this year, but his endurance needs to be built up. This guy was talking word of mouth and from watching video. He also talked about Humber, and how they brought him in because they thought the changes they would make with him were similar to Gavin, and they were pretty confident they would take. He thinks Humber will continue to be successful. His changes, from what I could gather, were more about leading with his chest to retain his balance. It gives him a consistent slot on his curveball. It's interesting, because whenever he shows the righties video it is always Gavin. He maintains that he has the best balance in baseball and one of the most repeatable deliveries you will see. The only other nugget I got was about how they were gradually changing Sales delivery over the last couple of years. He thinks his arm will hold up, and that is the only questions about Sale. When I asked him how his time as a starter will be, he thought David Price, maybe better. I would think it could be homer Sox talk, but he is the same guy who told me Peavy will be a disaster. Stupid me argued vehemently, at the time. Good stuff. Clearly, there's a difference of opinion on Molina's stuff. We've seen fastball velocities ranging anywhere from 89-96. There have also been some scouts projecting with time/maturity/filling out physically that his "consistent" velocity can pick up into the 92-96 MPH range as he gets older. Not quite as much about the movement, which is equally important. Seems, from his stats, that he's missing quite a few bats, one of the biggest issues for Danks when he's off.

YEPPERS.

In the viewing line now.... Sherlock Holmes The Descendants We Bought a Zoo A Dangerous Method A Separation (foreign language, Iran) Beginners (Ewan Magregor, Christopher Plummer) Pina Rampart (Woody Harrelson) maybe I'll give the opening sequence of TREE OF LIFE another shot

Rangers, Texas. Even without CJ Wilson. They might move Neftali Feliz to the rotation, they didn't have space for Ogando in the post-season rotation. Feldman gives them a lot of insurance, and they're still not quite done answering the LAAofAC.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3155846.story

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) I'll start being optimistic toward rebuilding the farm if Kenny actually uses his entire draft allotment this coming season. Fair enough. Or if we fork out the money to Cespedes. Perhaps the Borchard experience still lingers in their mind/s, although results with Viciedo look much more promising.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 05:58 PM) I think Mitchell's days as a super prospect are long gone, you never hear any discussion about him at all in KW's long or short term plans. That ankle injury was devastating. This year is THE year (just like with Jake Peavy)...perhaps that was essentially the end of his career, but if that burst/explosion is gone, then yeah, he's not worth much to this organization. On the plus side, he did show a ton of pop and numerous extra base hits in the 2nd half of the seasons. The strikeouts, clearly, were the biggest concern with Thompson/Walker/Mitchell, as to be expected with Trayce, not so much Walker and Mitchell.

What choice is there, other than to mire in misery and self-flagellation? I guess we can pick on Joe Cowley, KW or Ozzie, but that's getting a tad bit tedious, as well.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 05:32 PM) Is this for real? The farm is awful. Has been for a while now, and the reasons for it being bad are readily evident to anyone who cares to do some research. Caul is championing the Sox turning the 8th overall pick of the 2008 draft into an all defense no offense 2B who might be non tendered in a few seasons. Morel has had one underwhelming season and is still largely an unknown. Flowers, Stewart, and DeAza have proven nothing yet. The only prospects I see that one should brag about is Sale and Sergio in relief roles, Humber (who many are still not sold on), and Viciedo. Large influx of talent my ass. Morel, based on the last 6 weeks and his history of making adjustments, as well as being around Ventura. None of that will hurt, and will probably help. Beckham....who the hell knows, right? He could be great again or non-tendered/traded this year or next. Let's see how he does away from Ozzie and Walker for one full season before we consign or condemn him to the scrap heap. DeAza has a nice track record of results when healthy. An All-Star, probably not....but a player who won't hurt us like Pierre did the past two years, undoubtedly. ANd cheap, so good. I'll agree that Flowers and Stewart haven't proven much yet. Viciedo, most of us are very high on. Jury's still out on Molina, obviously. Between Walker, Thompson and Mitchell, one of those 3 guys will "get it" soon. I'm a big fan of Santiago...we have something with him. Addison Reed, as noted, the best closing candidate (among the top prospects) in the game today.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) I hate when people complain about the farm too. Way to again put it in perspective for those who dog the system. I hope some people actually read what you just wrote. The young fans get impatient, the ones in their 20's. If you're my age, closer to 40, you've seen so many ups and downs with this organization, things are still MUCH better than they were for much of the 70's, 80's and 90's. (Cue the comment, old fans supporting the White Sox through thick and thin only allows Jerry Reinsdorf to become complacent and not put a winning team on the field or "go on the cheap," response) This team is never as bad as it seems, it's always darkest before the dawn, etc., and the 2000, 2005 and 2008 seasons all proved we could come out of nowhere to surprise skeptics. Usually when we're favored or a lot is expected (2001/2003/2006/2009/2011), the team has fallen flat on its face in crunch time. Yeah, in the end, on paper, the Tigers look hard to beat with Verlander, the back end of their pen and seeming "plus" offensive contributors at all but 1-2 positions across the line-up. When Avila hits like he did, it's a huge advantage for them because of the dearth of offensive talent at catcher. Same with Peralta on the left side of the infield. Probably our best chance to compete is staying close to 100% healthy again (that didn't help so much in 2011) and an injury to someone like Verlander, Cabrera or Valverde. (Not ROOTING for one, just saying that's our best or most likely scenario to be competitive...) Just looking forward to a new start, seeing how Ventura can adjust on the fly...the feeling following the Sox last year, was even more miserable than I ever felt as a fan in the lowest lows of the late 80's and mid to late 90's. Sure, it could get worse, but I would rather be optimistic. Our system sucks, but at least we've added 3 more players to it than we had before in Molina, Marinez and Martinez. Would have been happy to get rid of Ozzie with NO compensation back, maybe one of those guys can contribute down the line, who knows?

Mark Buehrle wouldn't have cracked a Top 600 list either his first couple of minor league seasons, and now he's a borderline HOF pitcher if he continues for another 5-7 years. (This is like bringing up the last two Cardinals' World Series teams as inspiration for perseverence and comebacks during a season, along with the 2005 Astros). Top 600, 100 or even Top 10 lists are great, but they don't always correlate to actually success in the major leagues, they're just predictors or indicators. We also have produced 3 everyday starters (with the Quentin trade) in Morel, Viciedo and Beckham, have picked up another starter in DeAza for free, Humber for free, Molina for free (because Santos cost virtually nothing), a potential future starter in Flowers, Zach Stewart, Addison Reed...and one of the most exciting starting prospects in baseball, Chris Sale. Alexei Ramirez is far from old and can be considered a franchise cornerstone or key trading chip. That's not exactly NOTHING. There probably aren't more than 8-10 teams in baseball who have had a similar influx of talent in their 20's.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 10:47 AM) I thought Hesher was a good movie. A bit sad. It reminded me of "Everything Must Go" and the Ben Stiller "dark comedy" Greenberg. But JGL was awesome, big fan of his, 500 Days of Summer and 50/50 as well, all close to great movies. Has anyone seen WAR HORSE since Sunday? The Artist?

Still don't see how they can be worse than the Marlins if Marinez and Martinez were middle of the Top 10 picks before with that team. Definitely 26-30....pending what moves occur with Floyd, Thornton and Quentin. Santos Rodriguez and Jon Gilmore have completely disappeared into oblivion...but at least Lilly and Flowers can still give us something back.

There were lots of issues in the 2002-04 time frame with Lofton, Ordonez, D'Angelo Jimenez and C-Lee. Those four, in particular, were singled-out as "clubhouse" cancers by many insiders, particularly Jimenez....the perfect example of a low-risk/upside guy who nearly tore apart that clubhouse and was rightfully jettisoned, albeit not quickly enough. Obviously, Ozzie and Maggs had their own not so private dispute play out in the media, not coincidentally. And Lee has always been known as a "stats and me first," selfish, non-team oriented player, for a number of reasons.

Then again, many players in the past have had issues with the likes of Scioscia and LaRussa...but because of their overall level of success, they're not so easily held with their feet to the fire, especially by the local media in those markets. Although both those managers have a number of "haters" or detractors as well.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 11:15 PM) That's amazing that ST is just around the corner. Looks like Kenny is tinkering rather that totally rebuilding. I'd have to say I'm in favor of it. On paper AGAIN we have a good pitching staff and with Dunn and Rios it seems silly to put all young guys around them. Everybody needs to have a career year and get the Sox back in the playoffs. Greg, what solution do you have to the Dunn/Rios dilemma? Bench both of them for the entire season? They're not building around Dunn and Rios anyway, they're building around the pitching staff (outside of Peavy/Thornton/Floyd) as well as Morel, Beckham, Viciedo, DeAza, Flowers, Lillibridge, etc. Hopefully Mitchell or Walker emerge as a future leadoff hitter (CF/LF). Escobar and Martinez for the middle INF. Marinez (from FLA) hasn't been mentioned often as a bullpen candidate very often, but he figures into that equation well...as he could allow Stewart/Axelrod/Santiago and Molina to get valuable "maturation" experience as a starter in the minors.