caulfield12

QUOTE (Andrew @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 01:17 AM) Direct quotes to who? Cowley doesn't claim Danks spoke to him...he does his usual s***. "In an interview".... They weren't just made up...they had to come from SOMEWHERE, and not even Cowley would be stupid enough to use direct quotes in a story if he was just characterizing or backgrounding something....summarizing the general "feeling" of an off-the-record conversation. The question is if Cowley didn't interview Danks, where exactly did those quotes come from? According to the article, it was a telephone interview directly between Cowley and Danks...unless Danks' agent is feeding that "interview" to selected media outlets because he wants his pitcher off the Sox and traded to another team ASAP...so he can start the process of bargaining for a long-term deal with his new organization.

I'm willing to believe that Cooper actually acted in his own self-interest for most of this season, as did Ozzie. Obviously there was the Cooper/KW side of it, and the Ozzie/Walker/Cora clique with Cox and Baines somewhere in the middle of it all. The thing is...with a pitcher we have that much invested in, Cooper HAS to find a way to work with the guy. It's almost sounding like another Swisher case where Jake basically feels Cooper (and Ozzie) gave up on him and he had to go outside the organization for answers. (Too bad the same thing didn't happen with Beckham, where he perhaps trusted Walker too much because of their friendship?) Yet one more piece of evidence of all the factors of dysfunction and chaos being lined up against the team's success last year. It's no surprise the season turned out to be such a disaster. As far as criticizing the Sox for not protecting his brother or negotiating a long-term deal, it's a business and it's not in their long-term interest to placate Danks if they're going to trade him, but they darn sure should create a "nurturing" work environment because no doubt all of that turmoil in the coach staff rubbed off on the coaching/front office performances as well, and vice-versa. Seems like John is really painting himself and the team into a tough position. Probably they would be better off trading him before Spring Training, letting Jordan go and moving on. They keep Konerko, Floyd, Alexei and let Danks/Thornton/Quentin go....and perhaps deal AJ and Peavy at mid-season (and/or eat their contracts at the end of July if no suitors are available and the team's out of the race). Maybe that's not going into "full rebuild," but I'm guessing some market survey guru has determined that trading Konerko and Alexei to a lesser extent would fully signal a surrender of competitiveness for at least 2 seasons.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 13, 2011 -> 07:53 PM) I can't remember the details of the particular network broadcast analyst or the barely adequate Methuselah LOOGY in question (it might have been Ray Searage), but when the LOOGY took the mound the analyst said: "This is LOOGY's 18th (or 20th or whatever) year in the Major Leagues and his longevity is a testament to his continuing ability to be left-handed." I couldn't stop laughing at that one. Yet, so much truth in that. If you can't raise your kid to be a left-handed hitting catcher (most certain route to the bigs), then at least make certain he/she is a left-handed pitcher! Yeah, my best friend and I had a nickname for him back in the day, "Oh no, they're bringing in Ray Sewage!!" They've given up on the game for sure.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 13, 2011 -> 06:24 PM) Thanks for the well thought-out reply. I wasn't at all saying that the Twins have so much success with their pitching staff, but was merely using them (since we all know them so well) as the foil for the Sox sometimes over-emphasis on "stuff." It always fascinates me how lefty after lefty can be prospects throwing 88-92, but righties in that range are always HUGE suspects. To be drafted today, it seems right-handed pitchers need to be 6'5", 240lbs, with tree-trunk legs, throwing 93-96 mph. Like a few other posters have intimated, I also think that Axelrod actually has much better "stuff" than most people think he has -- velocity, movement, and bite. Plus, he's got some of that deception and short-arming that makes him difficult to "see." I don't think he's nearly the "pure guile" pitcher that some see him as; I think his minor and major league swing-and-miss numbers provide decent evidence of that. Yeah, his stature is going to make people doubt him -- kind of the white wide receiver syndrome that every NFL white wide receiver battles (no matter his published 40 time). But this guy has performed VERY well at the minor league level and in a limited sampling has shown the ability to get big league hitters out too. Sure he'll have to be on his game, but the same can be said for pretty much all the #4 and #5 style pitchers out there. Personally, I think those who instantly classify him as garbage aren't looking at the advanced numbers and using their eyes. We've seen awful #4's and #5's on the South Side and at least in my opinion Dylan Axelrod has a decent chance of being a LOT better pitcher than many of them. Definitely agree about the lefty/right thing. Hector Santiago wouldn't even be mentioned in our plans for 2012 were he not a lefty. And it seems every team has those lefties like Wil Ohman who hang on into their late 30's/early 40's as loogy's...the Arthur Rhodes/Darren Olivers of the baseball world who will continue to sign decent-sized contracts as FA's. And it's also the reason we SHOULD be able to get a decent-sized haul for Danks, despite his off year in 2010. On a team with average or above-average run support, he's the type of guy you definitely count on for 14-17 wins (if not more) per season. But still don't think that ability is worth $100 million+ to the White Sox at this juncture.

Ramon Castro's another possibility for the Marlins. Ozuna as a coach, perhaps? By the way, where did Jeff Cox land, if anywhere?

QUOTE (The Baconator @ Dec 13, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) 146 home runs out of the starting nine seems pretty low, doesn't it? I feel like the estimates for Morel, Beckham, and De Aza are a bit conservative. Also note they have Lillibridge with more HR/AB than anyone else on the team again. Morel seems to be ONE example where they looked at his last 4-6 weeks of playing time, rather than the entire body of work...and perhaps a more nuanced view that he's consistently improved and made adjustments as well in nearly every minor league season. His projection is closer to what we expected out of Joe Crede every year than what we could have dreamed for Brent in July or early August. Those were big steps/strides he finally made to give us all some badly-needed confidence in him going into the offseason. Because he was fighting just to get up to a 600 OPS for the majority of the season, because of his lack of extra base hits and walks. You can see DeAza putting up another 850-900 or completely playing himself off the team when/if he becomes the official starter for Pierre (based on a CQ deal finally happening, maybe after his 2012 salary number is clarified).

Cy, not sure how much to agree with you (especially recently) about the Twins having so much success with their pitching staff. That was one of the big factors in Bill Smith losing his job. Remember reading when we traded Guerrier for Marte, how McClendon and the Pirates' GM were forecasting Matt as the "next Greg Maddux" as well? How many times has it even come close to happening, in reality? Seems to be the most overplayed comparison among "non-stuff" pitchers that ever gets made, or the Buehrle/Glavine comps for soft-tossing lefties. The Twins have had mixed results, at best, with Blackburn/Slowey/Baker over the last couple of seasons. They made a pretty big mistake in dealing Garza and Bartlett for D. Young (it worked well for one season, 2010...but Gardenhire surely would take that trade back in a heartbeat). They also let Kyle Lohse go before he realized his potential under Dave Duncan. No team is infallible, but other than Liriano breaking out and Johan Santana, the Twins haven't developed the type of pitching that can go out and win big games in the post-season. At that point, pure/ace stuff will give most teams the edge, the Josh Becketts, Roy Halladays and CC Sabathias (yes, he's been roughed up) of the world. It was also clearly a factor in the Rangers' downfall. They have a TON of depth, when arguably their best future starter in Ogando didn't even have a place in the top 4. But none of those guys were close to aces, either. Good enough to get through the regular season and survive the post-season, but, in the end, they came up short. Granted, Nelson Cruz makes that play in RF and maybe this point isn't as valid as a criticism. And that pitching (combined with a very nice offense and strong pen) got them back twice in a row. (And the Giants/Angels showed pitching alone wasn't enough to get anywhere). In the end, will remain cautiously optimistic. Like the Chad Bradfords, Mark Buehrle's and Josh Fogg's of past seasons, he'll have to prove himself every time out...that might be one of the biggest benefits of a "no pressure" year of out the gate, where younger players/pitchers can be given more time to find themselves at the major league level.

Or they bring back Mike Lowell or Jeff Conine The Barbarian for the spot.

http://rotochamp.com/baseball/TeamPage.aspx?Team=CWS God, you'd love to have those numbers out of Peavy, Humber and Sale. Too bad it's ONLY about a 5-10% probability. DeAza 785 OPS Ramirez 734 OPS Konerko 873 OPS CQ 835 OPS AJ 726 OPS Morel 739 OPS Dunn 718 OPS Rios 689 OPS Beckham 689 OPS They also project the Ozzie Martinez kid we got for Guillen as the utility guy over Escobar.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 12, 2011 -> 08:56 PM) Tigers bullpen so far is Dotel, Benoit, Al Al, Coke and Valverde. That's pretty damn good. Ryan Perry was supposed to be the "bee's knees" and he totally flamed out to the point they had to trade him. Zumaya imploded. I would be shocked if 2-3 of those relievers didn't regress to their normal means. They seriously overachieved last year, particularly Valverde and Albuquerque. Dotel scared me when he pitched the 7th/8th for the Sox three or four seasons ago. They do have a ton of interchangeable parts on that roster, kids who can play all the OF positions and/or infield positions. Lineup Player POS Team AB R HR RBI SB AVG OBP SLG 1 Austin Jackson OF DET 600 89 9 54 26 0.258 0.326 0.383 2 Brennan Boesch OF DET 475 72 17 61 6 0.274 0.338 0.446 3 Delmon Young OF DET 520 70 15 78 3 0.285 0.324 0.431 4 Miguel Cabrera 1B DET 560 114 32 119 3 0.330 0.432 0.580 5 Victor Martinez DH DET 515 79 14 81 1 0.307 0.366 0.456 6 Alex Avila C DET 445 68 17 66 3 0.265 0.369 0.458 7 Jhonny Peralta SS DET 540 69 18 75 1 0.270 0.330 0.433 8 Ryan Raburn OF DET 420 49 16 56 2 0.248 0.301 0.429 9 Brandon Inge 3B DET 410 45 9 44 2 0.220 0.297 0.341 The obvious weakness is 3B, with Inge's seemingly half-decade long offensive struggles. I still don't know what the Twins gave Delmon Young to one of their two main division rivals...especially with Ordonez coming off the books, along with Carlos Guillen. Peralta played way over his head offensively last year, but Jackson/Boesch/Raburn all underachieved, so their offense definitely has the potential to be even better, which is a scary proposition.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Dec 12, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) True that. Tigers had a lot go for them, and that isn't a knock, things usually have to go right for you to win a division. Verlander had a cy young season (He's a stud anyways though) Perfect closer Aliva had a monster rookie season Delmon Young and Wilson Betimit seemed to be on fire once they got to Detroit. They do have a lot going for them though. Verlander and Fister is a great 1-2, they have a great middle of the order with Cabrera and Martinez and their pen is pretty good. But we have to see if Austin Jackson returns to form, can Avilia avoid sophmore slump, can Sherzer and Porcello rebound? They're the favorite to win the division again I'm sure, and they've earned that, but I can't see them being a 95 win team again. I can see them winning maybe 88? But in the AL Central, maybe that is all it will take? DET fans would argue that really Scherzer and Porcello should be their 2/3 guys with Fister 4th and Penny/Jacob Turner 5th. Avila...although "Aliva" might be a more appropriate name for when he hits against us. His father is also DET's Assistant GM, and he wasn't even drafted so highly. Their biggest weakness, to me, remains their middle relievers.

If I was Mark Zuckerberg, I'll be all over that...I wouldn't buy the White Sox though, because there are a lot better investments out there. Although with the current state of the franchise, it would be a big challenge to turn things around, obviously.

You were right on Santos. Still doubt they'll be trading Ramirez anytime soon, as per your request.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Not sure how long Valverde's house of mirrors can stand without cracking into pieces, probably as long as Fernando Rodney out in Anaheim.

I'm sure Ozuna, Vizcaino, Marte and Blum are on the way. Borchard already played for the Marlins, albeit briefly. Alex Fernandez comeback? Cotts and Politte? Hermanson? Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they went after Contreras, with the Latin/Cuban community down there. They already had Livan Hernandez.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/business...wanted=2&hp Balta will enjoy this one.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...urn=mlb-wp28503 Let's hope Mauer's engagement/marriage doesn't have the same effect it had on Konerko.

And the Tigers essentially had the 3 best players in the division, with Verlander, Cabrera and an unbeatable closer in Valverde for the entire year. Their bullpen can't be that good again at the back end. In fact, their middle relief was a sore spot all season long. After Verlander and Scherzer, they don't have anyone who really scares you pitching-wise, either. If Jacob Turner becomes a star, though, we might have some problems.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/a-r...-on-a-panic/?hp On Corzine, MF Global, Chicago trading desk, etc.

This kind of dissection of a KW trade would never have happened before August/September of 2009. Now, it's pretty much par for the course. Certainly...he's not infallible, but everyone's in agreement with most of the moves he's made during his recent entire post 2001-2002 tenure except for Teahen, picking up Rios, both Swisher deals, Hudson/Holmberg and now Santos/Molina. Other than that, even the Dunn and Peavy deals had a majority on their side when they were made. Or in 2010 when Rios was playing well. It's easy to say we were against these maneuvers in retrospect, but not many were. Now the scale has tipped over to the other side where the majority are against a KW trade simply because it's a KW move and quite a few of his post-2008 moves have failed, so it's easier to take the pessimistic view. In reality, nobody knows what will/could happen. Nobody knows for sure that Daniel Hudson would have pitched AS well for the White Sox, or that Kip Wells would have put up the same numbers in a competitive AL Central division that he did with the Pirates in the first 2-3 years after he was banished there.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 11, 2011 -> 07:24 PM) I'm just saying, until he isn't in the plans, then he is still in line to contribute to his team in the future. We can't assume we will resign AJ or get a new catcher via trade for Free Agency. If you look at Baseball America's "2015 Projected line-ups", I would be willing to bet it includes Flowers. Except it also includes Morel, Ramirez and Beckham as the infield, I'd be willing to bet. Want to take the odds on that actually being the case in 2015? Well, who really knows...right? Just as easy to pencil someone like Gilmore/Trayce Thompson/Viciedo into the 1B slot in that year's projection. But you're right, could be anyone. Maybe Phegley makes a miraculous recovery and surpasses Flowers in 2012, who knows. Tyler definitely started out well with the bat, then faded as time wore on, not unlike Viciedo his first time up in 2010.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 11, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) They won the World Series, and this trade directly helped them get there. They went 5-1 in games Jackson pitched in September, Rzepczynski & Dotel helped solidfy the bullpen & shut down Fielder/Braun in the NLCS. Anyone who ever regrets that trade is a moron. Kind of quiets J4L down on the AA/Rasmus front for awhile. He'll have plenty of material if Stewart and Molina flame about, however.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 11, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) Who else is in line behind AJ? Dan Black? We're going to clear a lot of payroll space in the next 12-18 months. I would give Flowers a 33% chance at being the 2013 opening day catcher. We'll see how he does this year as the primary back-up. At AJ's age, he should get at least 25-35 starts, if not 40. There's always the possibility that they start playing Flowers against every LHP and make it a straight platoon.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 11, 2011 -> 07:59 PM) Pretty much. Javy saved us a bunch of money, and 2 of the 3 players we received are contributing to the team for multiple years. Are you projecting Tyler Flowers to be the starter in 2013 with that comment? Or Santos Rodriguez? Gilmore?

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 11, 2011 -> 08:03 PM) Reports at the winter meetings had Lillibridge as one of the most sought after players the Sox have, believe it or not. I could believe it...and would be the perfect example of a "sell high" guy of almost anyone on our roster, except for maybe Konerko and Humber (although the luster came off the last couple of months of the season). With all the uncertainty around Beckham and Morel, with Rios a huge question mark...he's more valuable as a backstop at every position on the field, including 1B. Some have advocated putting him at SS and 3B, and he played first last year at times for Konerko/Dunn defensively. I'll give Greg Walker and/or Brent himself some credit with his baseball resuscitation.