caulfield12

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...ll-never-forget

Do you really believe they're going to spend $4-5 million per season on Francona? This whole "All In" thing has become a thing of the past SEEMINGLY this week, and the likes of Francona or LaRussa would have zero interest in a complete rebuild...basically the same thing Lou Piniella went through in Tampa before he finally walked away from it.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 11:50 PM) Ozzie wasn't fired. He quit to get more money so he wouldn't die poor. Kenny offered to stand down. Cora was never going to be interim. Cowley isn't a journalist. Greg Walker was responsible for the hitters to a degree. Feel free to add to it. Why should it matter if KW offered to "stand down"? Should that make me admire him more? I would have more respect if he said to JR, "Look, I'm responsible for this mess, the completely dysfunctional relationship between the front office and the coaching staff, Dunn/Rios/Peavy/Hudson for Jackson/Swisher...just give me one more chance. I'm going to rededicate myself 100% to this job and the effort of getting this organization back to where it was in 2005 and 2006. I won't rest until we have a team that White Sox fans can be proud of, that plays the game correctly, that hustles, that executes fundamentals..." That he is willing to quit and escape from this mess he created doesn't really impress me at all. In actuality, he created a large amount of the structural issues that plague this organization both today, tomorrow and 3 years from now. He was the one most directly responsible for Dave Wilder, and the current complete disaster which is our talent-base in the Domincan. Even this week, he's expressing astonishment when there's no "superstar" players to be had down there for the amount the White Sox want to spend. He should be honest with JR and tell him he needs to open the purse strings more in Asia, Venezuela and the Dominican, as well as emerging markets like Brazil, Australia, India, etc. Same thing with the draft. He should tell JR that it's his fault he needs to let Buehrle and Konerko go, because of the other players who are woefully underperforming with huge contracts. If he's not capable of convincing JR that the ONLY way to change the organizational mindset is to trade away most of the core and start over with a philosophy like they're following in Tampa, Milwaukee, Toronto, Arizona, KC, Texas, etc., he should walk away from the job today. If, and only if, he really wants to "WIN THE WAR" with Ozzie Guillen, about who was more important to the 2005 World Series championship...he should prove that he can build a consistent playoff-contending team again from the ashes. KW did this in the 2007-08 offseason to an extent, but things are 3X as bleak now because of the contracts we can't get off the books until midseason 2012 at the earliest.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 12:39 AM) So basically, if I don't like my boss, and I know I am on my way out the door soon, I can just create a situation which is unworkable or impossible for my boss or coworker to coexist in and thereby get him fired? Assanine. Well, not exactly. Let's think of KW as a regional sales director and Ozzie as his top salesman and marketing "face of the company." If 10 other things go wrong with the sales operation that have absolutely nothing to do with the top salesman, then the leader has to take responsibility. Of course, some will argue KW and Ozzie were "equal" or KW never had the authority...which isn't without precedent, if you look at the Yankees under Steinbrenner or the Loria situation with managers down in FLA. I don't think ANYONE would say (and Greg hasn't) that Ozzie doesn't bear some degree of fault or responsiblity. The irritation might simply be that KW "handled things better" or "brown-nosed" or "kissed butt" and just because he was the lesser of two evils, that in and of itself wasn't a reason for him to be retained as well. KW did publicly try to blame Ozzie over the Thome decision. That type of discussion should have stayed in-house. I'm never going to argue that Guillen hasn't done MORE awful/egregious things that in and of themselves would be fireable offenses. The only problem I have is this whole b.s. notion of "rebuilding" and Williams actually being able to execute this vision when it goes against everything he's been taught and trained to do philosophically here in Chicago, which is to give his team a "good chance" at being competitive each and every year. The whole complacency behind giving him ANOTHER 2-3 years to clean up this mess, I don't think he deserves so much rope to hang himself, but that's just me. But Ozzie is more like Steve Alford than anyone I can think of, he's all about himself, his brand, and what's best for him. And I worry that the fate of the White Sox the next 3-5 years won't be very different from what's transpired with my former university's basketball program. Irrelevant. Occasional bright glimpses of the future and inspirational play, but nothing sustained and not even a glimmer of hope of making it to the post-season. They might be "doing things the right way" but that doesn't sell tickets, either. And they quickly got rid of an NCAA Coach of the Year in Todd Lickliter, he barely made it through 3 years before things got MUCH worse than they were under Alford, because apathy REALLY set in, people stopped caring and tuned out completely. That's what Greg and some of the others like Victory and Marty will happen with Ozzie gone. Unfortunately, it's a risk JR felt he had to take.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:47 PM) I think 8 One was at least 8 1/2 and the other was at much as 10 or 11 games, can't recall exactly off the top of my head.

Obviously not personally as meaningful as Blackout/Game 163 in 2008 (for Sox fans), but SELIG definitely deserves some credit for nights like tonight. Who could have imagined 3 games like that, back-to-back-to-back? Only the Cardinals' game was a blowout.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) Yankees had said Rivera wouldn't be used tonight. Red Sox fans can't complain, as Yanks didn't use some of their better players in that long extra inning game against Boston on Sunday. Definitely agree, priority #1 has to be having him ready to go 1+ inning in the playoffs. Of course, RED SOX fans will complain that the playoffs shouldn't have started the next day...so there would have been no excuse not to use Rivera.

Just to spite the Red Sox Nation? It was curious and it will be a decision that is dissected across the country, not using Rivera there to close it out. ROBERT ANDINO=BUCKY DENT 2.0 Poor Chris Boomer Berman. And Joe Biden's prayers apparently didn't work either

We might have to trade Peter Gammons for Cowley now. Could we have just shifted managers from Martinez to Francona? Wow, wow, wow. What a turn of events in all three games from the 9th inning on. And Andrew Friedman or Freidman or however you spell his name might as well just get a blank check from Ricketts to run that Cubs' organization. Theo Epstein won't be far behind, although Francona will definitely be the scapegoat this time around.

That's 9 NL Central championships in 16 years for the Cardinals. LaRussa definitely won't be leaving now, and Carpenter's also back in the fold, Rasmus was ditched, etc. Right up there with Gardenhire and obviously behind what Bobby Cox accomplished.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 08:59 PM) I never suggested "eating" any of their salaries. That was my rationale for packaging them with the more desirable trading chips. I have Lillibridge platooning with de Aza in C.F. De Aza is much better vs. RHP and Brent is more effective vs. LHP. They could share the lead off spot. I also have Milledge in LF. My motive in moving Rios and Dunn now is to free up some salary, and to give the younger guys a chance to play next year. It may not be possible, but it's a reasonable goal. McPherson's numbers vs RHP this year at Charlotte project to a .305 AVG, with 44 doubles, 32 homers and 100 RBI's. He put up similar numbers last year. Given his previous Minor League stats, why not give him a shot vs RHP at DH, if you could unload Dunn? I know that he's older, but he's really never had a chance to blossom because of his terrible injury misfortunes. Even if you offered Danks and Quentin together, you're still not going to get them to take in the entirety of the Rios OR Dunn contracts. Maybe if the White Sox chipped in one-third or half, like the Phillies did with the Thome for Rowand deal. The problem with that is 1) you don't get any infusion of minor league talent for two of our more valuable trading chips this offeason and 2) you're still losing money on Dunn/Rios, basically paying them not to play, when the odds are at least 50/50 that one or both will recover and have solid seasons in 2012 with a new hitting coach/approach. Beckham, too. This is the type of move you really have to wait until the midpoint of 2012 to make. I would be shocked if KW was STILL AROUND as the GM and gave up on Dunn (eating all or part of the contract) and then used McPherson in that role. The only way that could possibly happen would be with a new GM who wasn't interested in proving or justifying the correctness of his original decisions.

Poor Braves' fans, stuck with Scott Linebrink. That was predictable enough. The only thing that wasn't was the fact it wasn't a 3 run homer. Rays fans must have been elated not to see Mariano Rivera out there in the bottom of the 9th.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 02:01 PM) With the current state of the Sox, the managerial job is not a good one. Due to the success of the Rays, Martinez will get to pick his spot (Cubs?) That would REALLY piss off Sandberg.

QUOTE (daggins @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 07:13 PM) green Hitting Coach - FRANK /green ??? Dallas Green? You want Thomas to be the hitting coach, but you're not being serious?

79-83

VIDEO: Ozzie Guillen meets Marlins media after the press conference, talks Twitter, LeBron SUN LIFE STADIUM -- Ozzie Guillen tackled a wide range of subjects when he met with reporters after the Marlins introduced him as their next manager. For starters, he declared he'll remain a Bulls fan for now until the Heat grow on him. "I'm not a hypocrite," Guillen told reporters in Spanish. He said right now he's a fan of Dwyane Wade, who is better than LeBron James in his opinion. "Everybody wants to go see LeBron. Well, not LeBron. The other one who is better. It's my personal opinion," Guillen said. "I'm not saying LeBron is bad. I just like the way Wade plays. I'm just saying when you're 7-feet, 400 pounds you should be the best basketball player in the world. "I'd like to get to know them. I admire them. I think what they did to LeBron wasn't fair. Everybody should be able to do what they want, even though Cleveland changed a lot when he left." Guillen talked about why he doesn't talk about baseball on Twitter (he was fined $20,000 for ripping an umpire once). And why he has a Twitter account at all. "I wish I made money [tweeting]," Guillen said. "I just do it because I'm bored and there are a lot of crazy people out there read what I say. That's all it is." Of course, he did talk a little baseball. Asked what managing style he'll bring the Marlins, he said: "I'm not going to say Ozzie style. I manage like everybody else. If you have team with speed, you manager a team with speed. If you have a lot of power, you manage with a lot of power. I like pitching and defense. Love it. I don't think you can go anywhere without it. "Managers don't win or lose games. All I can tell them is I'm going to bring passion, love, discipline, leadership. I'm going to go with my gut and what I know about baseball. They're going to play the game the way it should. We have the opportunity. We have a young team. If they don't work hard, we're going to have problems." Obviously, Ozzie is going to be fun to cover. Here are a couple video interviews he did along with Larry Beinfest after the team's press Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fish_bytes/...l#ixzz1ZHw6scO8 That all sounds very familiar. Wish we had seen a semblance of what he was talking about the last 3 seasons in Chicago.

McPherson and Marrero, really? Milledge deserves another shot before those guys. And you're leaving out Lillibridge. He's not going to get a legit shot to play everyday. And if you try to package Rios/Dunn with Quentin/Danks/Floyd/Ramirez/Thornton, etc., we're just giving away all the talent that could actually get something decent back in return. Rios and Dunn (and even Beckham) are sunk costs. We have to give them 2012 to recover and see what we actually have. Trading both of them at this point and eating millions of dollars just doesn't make any sense. Buy low, sell high. You have to wait, as painful as it might be....as predictable as the results might be to some who say they will all suck forever, even with a new pitching coach.

I don't expect DA to feel like he "lost" here, lol. Actually, I would expect that he will argue we'll see the exact same offensive numbers or worse and then WHO will we have left to blame, not poor Greg Walker, the whipping boy for Sox fans these past 3-5 years.

By Clark Spencer [email protected] Ozzie Guillen will be announced as the Marlins’ next manager at 1 p.m. Wednesday at Sun Life Stadium. Guillen is expected to receive either a three- or four-year deal, but for less than the $4 million annual figure that has been reported. Guillen, who has managed the Chicago White Sox since 2004 and won a World Series title with the team in 2005, was released from his contract on Monday. In compensation for Guillen, the Marlins will send a pair of minor leaguers, infielder Ozzie Martinez and right-handed pitcher Jhan Marinez, to the White Sox. Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/28/2429...l#ixzz1ZFgYf7Zx A bit weird to see him in that 2002 bright teal Marlins jersey. Buster Olney The Marlins have wanted Ozzie Guillen as their manager for years, and now it's expected to happen, as Joe Cowley writes. There are rival baseball executives and scouts who have been rooting for this to happen, because everybody loves a good circus. The Marlins will now have baseball's most volatile and outspoken manager working for the most reactive owner, Jeffrey Loria. The whole world has heard the stories about how Joe Girardi yelled at Loria during a game and how Loria had to be talked out of firing Girardi that day, about how Fredi Gonzalez was nearly fired about 6,832 times. "There's no way those two guys can co-exist," said one GM. "I bet they don't make it out of spring training." Here's a foolhardy prediction: Guillen and Loria will get along fine. No other rumors, just the usual ones about Zambrano and Aramis Ramirez to Miami.

I think they must have been referencing the squabbles in South Florida over Hanley Ramirez, Josh Johnson and the workloads of the pitchers, about Girardi and management, Fredi Gonzalez getting canned, etc. It just looks really silly in comparison to what was going on with Guillen and his family and KW at the same time. They did fire two managers who were performing well above (Girardi) or at least "at" expectations (Gonzalez) in the span of just a couple of years. 3. You can’t tell it by the way his tenure with the White Sox ended, but Guillen is as close to being a genius as you can find in baseball. He has the ability to be in an animated conversation in one part of a stadium or clubhouse and know everything going on around him -- like the kid who never seems to be paying attention to the teacher but gets A's without studying. He’s that kid. That’s what I’ll miss the most -- how he catches everything. The man is pretty much a mind reader. His instincts are off the charts. He didn’t go onto the field in Houston to celebrate the White Sox clinching the 2005 World Series. He stayed in the dugout, with his coaches, leaving the moment to guys like Bobby Jenks, Juan Uribe, Paul Konerko and Buehrle. It was easy to love that guy. I hope he’s happy in Florida, and that he gets back to another World Series or two in the next decade, with a franchise that could become a destination for Latin American players. But Jeffrey Loria isn’t exactly Reinsdorf when it comes to being loyal to employees. He’s fired a Who’s Who of managers, getting Felipe Alou in Montreal and Jeff Torborg, Joe Girardi and Gonzalez in Florida, never leaving anyone in place for four years. Guillen might change that, but in baseball the only thing guaranteed is your contract, not your job. Phil Rogers is STILL speculating that it will be LaRussa, but that seems a bit far-fetched with what we know so far... http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3270471.story

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/major...11/2612403.html When he's right, he sprays line drives from gap to gap with a level swing. He showed strong hands and excellent hand-eye coordination last year, when he looked like a potential No. 2 hitter with doubles power. Martinez's plate discipline took a hit this year and he never got going offensively and his confidence suffered. At times he fell into a pull mode, getting away from what made him successful earlier (but this flaw is expected to be fixed by Sox hitting coach Greg Walker, who's renowned for turning dead-pull hitters into spray hitters). Mentally he wasn't the same player, both at bat and in the field, where his play at short went from steady to erratic. He has the skills to play second and third and could fill a utility role. The strong arm is still there, as are the rest of his tools, but he showed only occasional glimpses of the all-around game that had Florida so excited a year ago. Puerto Rican, by the way. Maybe can guide Alex Rios...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...ers/cards/87064 I'm guessing he's referring to this guy, who converted from a hitter to RHP (20 year old from VALENCIA, VNZ). Or it has to be Yolmer Carlos Sanchez, a 19 year-old SS from Maracay. Who's our LH Venezuelan stud in Instructional League? Anyone know?

Williams also stressed the good things that are going on in the Venezuela operations (except for you know, Guillen leaving) even if he doesn't name the two top prospects that he referred to as "The Franchise -- Sanchez -- and a left-handed pitcher in the Instructional League." He can't brag about the team's status in the talent-rich Dominican Republic. Williams seemed to suggest it's getting tougher to scout there, which is odd. "If you look at our reports, across the industry, there's not as many Type I, Type II Dominican players coming out," Williams said. "It's getting harder [and] harder, for whatever reason." The Rangers signed Dominican outfielder Nomar Mazara to a record $5 million deal this season. Bonuses are high across baseball for Dominican players. Under the Ricketts family, the Cubs are banking on upgrades to their Dominican operations, which has produced Carlos Marmol and Starlin Castro. No one really brings up the Sox's continued failures in the Dominican, but when the White Sox develop a homegrown Latin American star again, let me know.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 12:45 AM) I didn't think I was giving in. I would think most of my haters would think I haven't budged after presented their "facts, stats" thus their hatred of me grows. You must see me waffling somewhere. I'm really not crazy about Alomar being our new manager. Royals went with an inexperienced catcher once, during a rebuild in Pena, and he was a disaster. If the Red Sox blow it and their fans are imploding why can't we steal their manager just as the Marlins swooped in on Ozzie? If the Twins hate Gardy, why can't we steal him? He's experienced as well. People mock me like when I said if Guillen is so s*** why will Florida give him 4 years? Four years? I was mocked. And what is it ... four years and this disgrace of a manager is now also one of the highest paid in baseball by a cheap team. And the Sox let him go? Smart move. If you remember, you have to give credit to Tony Pena for the first four months of 2003. For nearly a decade, the Royals hadn't had a single winning season, after Brett retired. And from what he learned during that experience (which ended with him leaving in somewhat embarassing fashion), he's still been mentioned as a legit managerial candidate in the last 2-3 offseasons. It's the same thing you've mentioned about Ozzie...that he learned a lot/was trained during his time here, and can used that past EXPERIENCE to be an even better manager in the future. Right? That team was put together like a MacGuyver project....duct tape and baling wire. It was a miracle they stayed in contention so long with their "WE BELIEVE" catchphrase preceding Obama's "Yes, We Can" by 5 years. Florida is REPORTEDLY giving him 3 or 4 years to 1) sell tickets/help market/open up their new stadium, 2) build a bridge to the Hispanic fanbase in South Florida, 3) receive national media attention, 4) put them on the map as a potential destination for premier Free Agents (this didn't really happen in Chicago, only Freddy Garcia can be directly attributed to Ozzie) and 5) work with their young players. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean he was the best manager for the White Sox in 2012 or moving forward. And we're not going to swoop in and pay Francona $4-5 million per year because 1) JR has never done that before, 2) the team will more than likely be in a rebuilding phase and cutting payroll, so the job wouldn't be very attractive to a LaRussa or Francona type. Finally, he WANTED to leave. If you had an employee that was seeking to get out of his contract, once you cross that bridge, there's almost never a going back. The Sox were never going to be able to keep him pacified unless JR fired Williams and allowed him to keep his entire coaching staff intact, including Greg Walker.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...urn=mlb-wp21111 At least this will make you laugh. Funniest thing I've seen tonight, especially since I've seen the same "death stare" in person many times now.