caulfield12

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Aug 15, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) Liriano did not pitch in the playoffs in 2006. In fact, he pitched a total of 6 innings in August and September. I meant in the sense that they had two of the arguably 3-5 best pitchers in baseball (when healthy) that season. There's they charge back into the race without Liriano's dominant stretch of pitching.

Yay! We have Game 163 and the World Series. Other than that, a record of complete and utter failure against the Twins, lol. Rick Hahn's kid is the reason half of the White Sox fanbase isn't pulling their remaining hairs out, because that coinflip goes the other way...before they changed the rules...and it's even more depressing if the Twins have 7 ALCD titles to our 1 since 2002.

We beat them in 2005. What is it about this organization that we make up excuses before we even play a team? We used to really struggle in Oakland and Seattle, we got over that... OTOH, there are some teams that don't match up well. Seemingly every season, the Yankees COMPLETELY dominate the Twins, setting the tone for the post-season. I wonder if the White Sox don't believe they can beat the Twins, just like the Twins don't believe they can beat the Yankees? It seems silly, but Ozzie plays into it, and seemingly has made it worse over time, instead of better. Harrelson does the same thing, whether it's Brad Radke, Carlos Gomez, Santana, Torii Hunter, Mauer, Morneau, Nathan, etc. You would have thought with Joe Nathan on the shelf this entire season we'd have had some more confidence in being able to beat them late, but it simply hasn't happened. Doesn't matter whether it's Rauch or Capps.

Especially since knowledgeable Twins fans would always respond with, "Jamie Burke, run over and trampled to death." It was bad enough when we were taunting the Orioles' starters and counting automatic victories there. However, I don't think ANYONE is going to be overconfident coming into this one... And the problem is that Liriano ISN'T DEAD. Were he close to dead, like 2007 and 2008 and 2009, he wouldn't have ripped the hearts out of our season by getting out of those bases loaded situations with that nasty slider.

I can't figure this out. I was trying to get to sleep (it's 624 am in Thailand and I'm still aggravated), so I was trying to do something productive, like figure out why we can't play well in the last 6-8 weeks of a season. Is it the Chicago heat/weather? That's always the excuse in Texas/Houston, but can we legitimately use it? In 2000, we played a notch above .500 for most of the last couple of months and our pitchers went down or struggled to be held together with duct tape and baling wire. 2001, we actually played better in the second half, but we were already buried after starting out 14-29 and a number of injuries, particularly Thomas and David Wells. 2002, MEH. 2003, played well after the ASB but then ended up losing five in a row to Minnesota to finish the season. 2004, faded down the stretch. 2005, faded, almost choked the whole thing away and then recovered the final week. 2006, faded, played 8 games under .500 the second half and limped into 3rd place after having the best offense in baseball the first half. 2007, MEH. 2008, seemingly peaked early in the season when Linebrink was pitching well and Quentin/Ramirez were on a tear, then held on for dear life down the stretch with both teams trying to give the division away to each other through the final weeks. 2009, MEH. 2010, seemingly headed in the same direction. What is it with this franchise? How can we be 4-19 against the Twins in the second half of 2008/09/10? How is that even possible? How can the Twins play so well in the second halves of seasons, most notably 2002-2004, 2006, 2009 and 2010. Do we need a team psychologist? Even without the looming spectre of the MetroDoom, we lost three in a row up there, with Jenks blowing what might turn out to be (at least looking back on the entire season) the most crucial game of the season, the finale of the four game series after the ASB. At that point, our lead would have been 3 1/2 games instead of 1 1/2. Since beating the Twins the first game after the ASBreak, we're at .500. The Twins are 15 games over .500 without Morneau. I don't think we can blame it all on the loss of Jake Peavy, either, since the Twins have been without Morneau both in 2009 and 2010. Are we really a team that's mentally weak? Are we choking? Or is Minnesota just head and shoulders above the Sox and we're "returning to norm" after playing over our heads for 2 months? Is there anything that Ozzie and KW could do differently, besides not listening to aging veterans year after year tell the FO that "they have the team to win it, no need to make any additional moves." Is it because we don't have enough leadership or fire in our clubhouse (the theory that losing Everett and Rowand set us back in this area)? Are we too passive? (Winning creates chemistry, it's not the chemistry that creates the winning, right?) Well, I'm not sure about that one either, almost all of the Twins' players have pretty laid back attitudes, too. Mauer and Morneau, in particular, have been under fire for not playing with enough fire or passion. Is it simply that the White Sox don't play well when they're favorites or more talented, that we underachieve and play better when we're the underdogs or counted out by everyone? I still don't get it. I wish that I believed that Ozzie or KW had the answer/s, but I'm not feeling too confident in that regard at this particular moment in time.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 15, 2010 -> 05:09 PM) This Twins team has more power and a true ace this time around in Liriano. Those Twins teams of the past depended on the likes of Nick Punto. Their offense is just a lot deeper. They had two aces in Liriano and Santana in 2006, and it wasn't enough. When Torii Hunter, Jacque Jones and Shannon Stewart are your offensive leaders, you're a bit thin. Now with Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Young, Kubel and Thome, they have six sluggers to match any team, and then Hudson and Span are the table-setters. The 2002-04 and 06 teams didn't have anything resembling that offensive depth. JJ Hardy arguably is their worst offensive player, or Valencia, who has been hitting over .300 for most of the season since his recall.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 15, 2010 -> 05:44 PM) The worst part for me is watching the Twins get inevitably swept in the first round. They have absolutely no f***ing chance against any playoff team meanwhile if the sox could put their s*** together, our team would be scary in the playoffs. Not necessarily. I do think they need to get Morneau back, but if Liriano, Pavano and Duensing continue to pitch as well as they have since the ASB, there's a 50/50 chance they could knock off one of the AL East teams. Their bullpen has been sturdy, kind of the "bend but don't break" defense.

Do they have a Thursday night game? I was hoping, since they're 4-19 against the Twins in the second half dating back to 2008, that they could just get that Thursday game out of the way quietly, in the middle of a hot and lazy afternoon when nobody would have to watch the dreaded carnage in front of their televisions at home.

That way the last 20-30 minutes seemed kind of anti-climactic. Ozzie, you might want to set aside that idea of writing a book about the 2010 season for the time being, because NOBODY in Chicago will care to read it with things looking as bad as they do now. Goodbye Putz, Jenks and Andruw Jones. It was nice knowing you. Hello, Sale. Hopefully Konerko, if this is the end of his Sox career, can go out on a better note and the White Sox can actually take 2/3 in Minnesota...I wouldn't bet on it happening, but there's always hope.

Signing JJ Putz, lol. What was once the best FA relief pitching sign of the offseason has quickly gone to MEHHHHHH. And goodbye to about $5-7 million. Don't see him getting a two year contract right now. He can be the 7th or 8th inning set-up guy, like a Dotel, but he's no longer a closer, that much is clear.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 15, 2010 -> 03:29 PM) Hawk is out today with an illness in the family. Hopefully back on Tuesday. Hawk would have been out with a coronary if he was there in person to witness this implosion. Seriously, this game would have been a lot for him to deal with...I was ready to believe we could take it to the Twins if we were able to complete the comeback, but now, not so much. The momentum change in this division feels permanent. It could change and swing back to us one more time, but we don't have the type of team or bullpen now to hang with the Twins, Yankees and Red Sox.

Linebrink and Putz both had four wonderful months in 2008 and 2010 and then POOF!!!

The only thing that would be the perfect topper to this game would be Jenks coming in now and getting booed? Hopefully they're not saying goodbye to the 2010 season. Everything was going great until Jenks blew that final game in the first series after the break in Minnesota. That will go down as the key game, the Mariners' loss when Vizquel keyed the comeback, losing 3/4 to the Orioles...not being able to beat the Twins 2/3 at USCF. The supposed strength of the White Sox, relief pitching, has abandoned them at the worst possible time. At least it doesn't feel like 2003 when we had the best team in baseball arguably. We're far from that.

Thanks for destroying any motivation the fans have for coming out the rest of the season. Well, the Yankees and Red Sox fans can at least give us some additional revenue for our payroll, that's about the extent of it.

Well, the Twins were down 4 1/2 games and were staring at THREE more games at USCF and they swept through those... Yet it seems impossible for us to do anything now but POSSIBLY win 1 of 3 games in Minnesota.

Cross Pena off the list for next year too. He's nothing but DJ Carraso with better stuff. Sure, he's had 2-3 nice outings when he went long and saved us, but he hasn't done us any favors recently. I'm actually thinking we would be better off with Brandon Allen fo 2011.

Well, thanks Tigers for proving the point that it would have been unwise to overspend on Putz for 2011. Now the problem is that we have to replace two back-end relievers with who exactly? Scott Linebrink? Pena? Sale makes sense, you can see him getting it done, but are we sure we want to make him the 2nd lefty out of the pen? Maybe.

Now, the better question is can we get a clutch hit in the 8th or 9th inning? Hasn't been our strength the last 10 days.

It seems that the White Sox are going to get a further reputation for second half collapses if this plays out the way it's looking...Jones home run notwithstanding. We can't come back just to turn around and lose this game. Horrible.

Gee, thanks Jones.

It would be ONE thing is we were starting a pitcher we expected would hold the Tigers to 2-3 runs. But the way Garcia's going, to ask the White Sox to outscore the Tiggers with that offense, I don't think so. Stranger things have happened, but it just seems the bad stretch this team was due for is upon us. Or it could be just an omen when a building they're constructing here in Thailand at my old university just collapsed an hour or so ago and 30-40 workers are missing or presumed dead at the moment.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 15, 2010 -> 01:27 AM) Caulfield, I was just going by the analysis of Hawk and Stoney who, even as homers, crucified AJ on the play. Said on ball four it was inexcusable to throw the ball. Stoney said AJ "knew" that ball was high. I love AJP, I'm just going by our announcers. Curious as to why you see this one differently from those two. Remember it was ball four. We should have a separate thread on Soxtalk's feelings about AJ. I sense some growing disgust with him this year. I still like him, just don't understand his batting stance sometimes. I think there was a similar play the day/game before...where the ball went into CF because nobody covered 2B, the infield was shifting for a pull hitter. At least that's my recollection. I think this was a different situation.

And Aaron Rowand. That would have killed us, having had Linebrink/Contreras/MacDougal was bad enough. Torii Hunter, I don't like guessing about his health the final years of that contract, but he's a born leader. I would have been "okay" with either Hunter and now Rios. You're overpaying for both, but not by huge amounts. Unfortunately, the Marlins were seduced by Miller and Cameron Maybin, or we would have ended up with Cabrera.

That ball that AJ threw into CF was 100% on Alexei Ramirez. There was a "Thome shift" on at the time and he didn't get over there to cover to communicate with Beckham about who would be taking it. Not AJ's fault.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 14, 2010 -> 10:02 PM) "Having Marv Throneberry play for your team is like having Willie Sutton play for your bank." Marvelous Marv Thornberry NY Mets 1962 Ok now compare that line to one we can come up with for Jenks and Putz and have some fun Inviting Bobby Jenks to Crispy Kreme when they're hot out of the oven Putz your playoff chances into prayers for Santos (meaning Saint in Spanish). Sorry Greg.