caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 10:18 PM) That's not Anderson's fault though. His coaches have to be communicating with him that the ball got away. When you're picked off like that, you're only focusing on getting to 2nd base. I don't know...I think from the reaction of the infielders, and the fact that there's a distinctly different noise from the crowd when the ball is careening down towards the bullpen versus a successful pick-off, I just wonder why Anderson wasn't looking at the 3rd base coach? I just remember someone like Jose Valentin running the bases, and thinking he would have scored easily...even though he wasn't a particularly fast runner. He never seemed to make demonstrable mistakes like that, though.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) Absolutely the right call to send him. According to McDowell, Anderson turned to look for the ball (when he heard the crowd noise), hesitated rounding 2nd base and didn't look for Cox. Both seemed to blame Anderson's baseball instincts more than Cox's decision-making.

QUOTE (Karko's Throat Skin @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 10:05 PM) Thornton looks much better than he has been. Hope the back injury is overblown. BTW, who are we DL'ing/DFA for Richard? Or is it Broadway? It would be tempting to leave Thornton in, the way he's pitched so far, but I am sure OG will go with Dotel. The way that Thornton has weakened in the 2nd and 3rd innings of appearances, and with his acknowleding that he's been feeling a little weak in terms of arm strength (and maybe the back?), we have to send Dotel out there.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 10:57 PM) Bet this pitcher doesn't make it through 4 on Tuesday. Blows 88 MPH fastballs by people. Really sad display of offense. It seems any Sox pitcher that rolls along like that somehow gets dinged up eventually (Danks v. Boston) while the Sox most likely will not reach base again tonight. We've done better against LH pitchers and "no name" pitchers this year, compared to the past. It's hard to predict with our offense...we own some of the best "stuff" pitchers in the league, like Justin Verlander. Yes, it would have been better to step on their necks and keep them out of the game entirely. Will be interesting to see how former A's closer Dotel does against them. Is he going to overthrow and walk two guys, or stay within himself?

Well, the A's are 4-21 since the break, but I'm certainly not expecting a sweep. By the way, thanks M's...good move signing Silva. OTOH, they're 27-6 against the White Sox in Oakland since 2001. This game is getting very scary. Floyd was flirting with disaster all game long...as McDowell noted, nobody was catching up with his fastball until Cust, who's their only really dangerous hitter against Floyd's best heater. His pitch count shouldn't have been 97 after five innings because he was nibbling too much and trying to make the perfect pitches when McDowell noted it would have been better to just pound the strike zone with your FB and force them to change his approach.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 09:55 AM) We're sending the elder Danks to winterball? Why? After the innings he's logged already this year he ought to have the winter off to rest that valuable left arm. I would be totally shocked if they sent the elder Danks to the AFL. Usually, it's your top 3 position prospects (AA, sometimes high A) and your top two pitchers and a reliever, or two relievers and a starter. I think it's going to be tough for the White Sox to find six players that fit that bill in the high minors. I would go with Getz (to keep learning multiple infield positions, depending on the plan for 09 w/ Crede-Fields-Uribe), Poreda, Adam Russell, and...not sure after that. It would be nice to see Fields gain some confidence going into next season...but perhaps he needs the time off mentally. It would also be interesting to see how well someone like Shelby or Brandon Allen would fare, although that might be pushing it to send them at this point to the AFL. I doubt we see either Beckham or Danks in the AFL, but it's all up to KW.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 10:00 AM) Problem with these lists is that it really depends on your idea of balance, between ceiling/future value and how close they are to contributing. That's where you get some differences, where Getz for example might be 2nd or 3rd because he's ready. Also, who falls under prospect? What about guys like Mike MacDougal or Ehren Wassermann, who are at AAA but have played major league ball? Or a guy like Brian Anderson? I assume those are not really prospects anymore, but that's a matter of opinion. I assume Broadway and Russell are still prospects, though. But trying to combine the two, here is what I come up with for quick and dirty lists... PITCHERS 1. Poreda 2. Broadway 3. Richard 4. Egbert 5. Cassel 6. Link 7. Harrell 8. Teixera 9. Shirek 10. D Carter 12. Hudson 13. Sauer 14. Upchurch 15. Asselin POSITION PLAYERS 1. Getz 2. Fields 3. Beckham 4. Allen 5. Jose Martinez 6. Shelby 7. Jordan Danks 8. Retherford 9. Miranda 10. Cook 11. Escobar 12. Jorge Castillo 13. Morel 14. Kuhn 15. Gerst 16. Kendall The way I look at it, and maybe it's different from BA, is which player/s have the best chance to become starters/major contributors for an "average" major league ballclub. So it's basically more about future impact projection than about which one is closest to the major leagues. Going by that standard, it's hard to say that we really have any surefire (where there's a very solid consensus) prospects after Beckham and Poreda. Of course, lots of things can change...and Fields isn't eligible because he has exceeded the rookie status of 130 at-bats or so. MacDougal was once a prospect, I don't think Wasserman, due to his limited potential as a reliever, was ever considered by most scouts to be anything more than a B level prospect. Usually the Top 10 lists might have a reliever or two, but they're "closers" or "future closers" about 95% of the time.

I read somewhere that, if they were revising the list to take into account the first half of the season, that Chris Getz was even getting some consideration for #1 and definitely #2 prospect in the system. In some ways, that's a little depressing, because many don't project him to be much more than a good utility player in the majors, but it shows how far and consistently his stock has risen as a prospect since signing.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:51 PM) from 1987-90 we were amazing McDowell followed by Thomas followed by Ventura followed by Alex Fernandez. we have many problems. Usually we have not had a top 10 pick. but we've wasted money on guys like Borchard and Fields, who lost good developmental time to football Need to stop that. We've been burned by injuries -- Honel and Stumm. And we don't do a good job of developing talent. Not to mention Corwin Malone, Rauch, Jim Parque, Danny Wright and Lorenzo Barcelo, to name five more pitchers that were projected to be contributors. Didn't Tyler Lumsden have a lot of health issues not long after signing with the Sox, also? The whole football/athlete thing didn't work very well with Brian West, either. Was he at LSU or he gave up a scholarship for football to LSU to sign with the Sox? Can't remember.

We would never want Teahen at 3B defensively (I lived in KC for ten years and saw enough, no matter what the stats say)...and he's a little like Ross Gload, not hitting for enough power to play corner infield or outfield spots and not quite athletic enough to play the middle of the field. Peralta is a disaster defensively, I'd like to try to improve our defense if we are giving up offense (see Uribe). Inge would be a great utility player and back-up catcher and still has a very good arm, but I don't want to see him whiffing 200 times of playing 140+ games for us. I think the Angels will hold onto Wood and see if they can increase his value again. A lot depends on the Figgins situation. They held onto McPherson and Kotchmann for a long time, same with Kendry Morales. At different points, they could have had huge returns for these players, along with Wood and Aybar.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) If rules allowed it, Carter would #1-30. What's the story with Carter? What's his arsenal? Does he project as a starter or reliever? Obviously, I can look at his stats and peripherals and be impressed (as with many stats in Rookie League or DSL/Venezuela), but who has "eyeballed" him in person? Why was he drafted relatively low? Signability issues? I always look at players drafted outside of the first five rounds with a bit more skepticism, but there are tons of examples like Buehrle and Piazza who weren't high drafts or who weren't noticed by most teams (Pujols).

Even though Silverio is struggling right now, isn't he still only 17 years old, or maybe 18? When they were signed, which one was thought to have more potential (compared to J. Martinez)? I know Silverio has a good arm, by glancing at his stats, it doesn't look like he's stealing many bases. Of course, this is not a huge indication of basestealing and speed at the MLB level, many Sox prospects like Fields have had in the vicinity of 30 steals and Josh is a slightly above average 3B in terms of speed. Maybe now average to below average with his injury problems. How many of you have seen either Silverio or Martinez play? Are they similar to Ramirez in build? Do you still think both will make it to the White Sox, or it's just impossible to project until they at least have some success in Winston-Salem down the road?

would it look like, after the Danks and Beckham signings? 2) Do you still think we are the worst system in baseball, or can we argue we've gained on anyone in front of us? 3) Assuming we lose Cabrera and Crede and decline/buy out Griffey, but retain Thome, what are the projected compensation picks? Isn't Crede going to be lucky to be Type B/C after the last 2 seasons? What about Uribe? I haven't followed the minors at all this season, so I would guess our Top 10 would have some of the following players... Getz Poreda Fields (i don't think he qualifies as a rookie anymore, although technically a prospect as far as i'm concerned) C. Richard Jose Martinez Juan Silverio Danks Beckham Broadway Adam Russell John Shelby, Jr. Others under consideration Brandon Allen Egbert Ely McCulloch Daniel Hudson Po-Yu Lin Dexter Carter

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 06:30 PM) Yet Williams is still a complete moron to some..... That's not unusual...looks at startribune.com/sports or the Twins' boards after losses. MANY of their fans feel the same way about Gardenhire and Bill Smith, despite their unprecedented level of success getting lemonade out of lemons. It kind of reminds me of Braves' and Yankees' fans, they're getting spoiled...combined with their lack of belief they can actually get somewhere in the playoffs and that ownership is cheap, cheap, cheap. Well, the new stadium will bring up two interesting questions. Will the Twins' homefield advantage evaporate, and second, will the Pohlad family suck the profits out of the luxury suites and new revenue streams and not plug in an extra $20-30 million into the payroll?

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:51 AM) Edgar Renteria anyone? http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../808130396/1004 They really hate Renteria in DET, almost as much as they have turned on Leyland, Sheffield and Doug Jones. It would be ironic if we replaced one Colombian for another, being that they are the only two players from their country, and they basically had a falling out and hate each other now (wonder if that was also over a call to the box reversing an error on Cabrera and taking away a single from Edgar???) I just read the article. The author reached the obvious conclusion that Ordonez (at 34) is their most marketable/tradeable player at this point...and, also, that if he stays healthy, they will have his $15 million dollar options vest in 2010 and 2011 when his contract takes a turn for the Alphonso Soriano universe (due to Magglio's age and weight/body type/injury issues). They do have to wait until Porcello and Ryan and some of their other pitchers mature. Luckily, Andrew Miller and J. Jurrgens were traded out of the division, so we can still deal with Robertson, Verlander and Bonderman. Maybe the White Sox will take a shot at Kenny Rogers? We passed him (a lot of teams did) in 2003 and then again when he came to DET, and he made remarkable comebacks, although this will undoubtedly be his last. For the Tigers to become competitive again, they really need for Dontrelle Willis to get his head screwed on straight...otherwise, they will have to dump Miguel Cabrera or Ordonez and completely rebuild.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:33 AM) I dont know where you come off saying that, everyone is entitled to their opinion.... It's is not like there havent been a number of times people here have questioned a move that turned out to be a disaster. Sometimes we are wrong but just because your not a GM of a team doesnt mean your wrong about something. This reminds me of 2006 all over again. Everything KW did was "magical" and the past (Ritchie trade, trading for the wrong "Barry/Berry" with the Dodgers, dumping Durham for Adkins and getting no draft picks back, "Moneyball," etc.) was forgotten. I think KW is an average to above average GM, somewhere between 12-18 in the majors. I try to be pretty objective about the guy...last year, I didn't think he was the worst GM in baseball by a long stretch. I don't think "KW won a World Series, have/did you?" makes every move he has made perfect and unquestionable. I just really hate that kind of logic or argument. Eventually, even the Bulls had to part with Krause, as most realized that it was MJ and Pippen and not the "wizard" GM who was responsible for the team's success. He's a good GM, but not a great one. He's made some super acquisitions, but he's done almost nothing in Latin America or the Pacific Rim, and the White Sox drafting history/success rate has been horrible, especially first rounders. OTOH, the White Sox, I think, are behind only the Yankees and Braves (maybe the Red Sox now too) if you go back and look at organizational winning percentage since around 1990 or 91. Of course, this leads to the other main point for Sox fans....until 2005, lack of success in the playoffs, and letting the Twins, with a much lower budget, get the better of him year after year after year.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:28 AM) A nickname he got for his way with the ladies. Wasn't there a heavy metal band in the 80's or early 90's with that name, "Slayer"? Maybe it was "Grim Reaper," lol. I get confused sometimes. I prefer "Twins slayer" as his nickname, or hoped-for results at least.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) Sounds like somebody pissed in your Cheerios this morning... Apparently Byrd cleared waivers before Jose tore his Achilles. In other words, there was no room in the rotation for him at that point. Also consider that the Indians got jack squat in return from the Red Sox. So, even if Kenny did claim him, why would they want to deal a solid pitcher to a division rival for that price? They would save a whole month and a half's worth of salary (whoppie!) and lose the draft picks. The draft picks might be worth more than what they got from Epstein. The Sox need to stop rolling the dice and they need to develop players. Kenny's the best wheeler-dealer GM I've ever seen, but he's not going to be able to continue trading for ML-ready players if he stays on this course. The Sox have very little left in AA and AAA, which is why a washed-up Griffey was Kenny's big deadline move this year. Wow, you have some serious anger issues. Why would I "hate" anybody on the Sox? Especially somebody like Thome, who is pretty much universally-liked around the league. I don't have a massive hard-on for him like you do, but I still like the guy. I also think that we have too many players like him right now and would like to move his salary in the off-season and spend it on something that we actually need, but that's probably not going to happen. That said, I'm not exactly sitting in front of my TV and shaking my fist at him when he comes to the plate. The Sox pen has gone to crap because Dotel, Thornton, and Logan aren't that good. It's pretty simple. Dotel hasn't put up a full quality season since the Tommy John surgery. Thornton was a cast-off from the Mariners and he sucked last year as well. I don't think that Logan has had a single solid year in the majors. Look at their career stats, for crying out loud! Is it really any wonder that these guys are getting hit?! :wacko: Wow, all of this for saying that Kenny needs to focus more on player development. One would think that I cursed your mother or something. That's the essence of set-up guys these days. If you look at the MLB "holds" leaders, you barely recognize half the names on the list, and that's if you are a die-hard Roto player looking for potential closer fill-ins. Linebrink was as close as you can get to a known quantity for the past five years, but injury/durability/overuse concerns clouded that picture for many GM's. With Thornton, you can argue at least he had first round talent. Of course, you can same the same thing about the likes of MacDougal, Sisco and Aardsma, among others. At least I give KW credit for trying a new approach...instead of throwing a bunch of talent against the wall and hoping that some of it would stick or "figure things out," he went to more veteran/proven relievers in Dotel and Linebrink, and it worked for 67% of the season. Of course, then you turn to the development angle again. Maybe Richard, throwing just an inning or two, can replace Logan (the Logan of the first half of the season). Just the fact that Logan made the same jump as Scott Radinsky in 1990 without having anything close to Scott's pre-injury/health problems stuff says a lot about the state of the Sox farm system. Even if your minor league starters fail, there should be enough quality arms to come up with a couple of serviceable pitchers. Right now, the best we can say is that Adam Russell is learning on the job and might be the next Jon Adkins at worst and Bob Howry at best. The fact that Carrasco is such an integral part of the pen (over the likes of Logan, Wasserman, Russell, Link, Rodriguez, etc.) should tell you all you need to know. Of course, you can look at the Twins...who are at best, a little worse off than the Sox with Crain/Guerrier/Reyes as set-up men for Nathan. Losing Neshek, Rincon imploding (due to the steroids case?) and Grant Balfour (now pitching well again for the Rays) all going south really was a blow to that organization, but those were three critical pitchers. When the Twins had Romero/Hawkins/Guardado and then Nathan later...or when the Sox had Politte/Cotts/Hermanson/Jenks or Dotel/Linebrink/Jenks, things worked like clockwork. It's also telling that Politte and Cotts pretty much came out of nowhere and faded...the same thing could be said of Hermanson, only Jenks has had extended success, and nobody ever questioned his talent. Bottom line...you just never know what the heck will happen from year to year. Look at the Indians and Tigers this year, or the Royals for the first half of 2003.

Impressive. That's the first thing I thought of while talking with Gordon Beckham late Wednesday afternoon. Beckham, the White Sox' first-round draft pick, was officially signed Wednesday, and he'll join Class A Kannapolis Thursday. Considering he was the No. 8 overall selection in the June draft, Beckham could have commanded a signing bonus between $4-5 million. He "settled'' for $2.6 million, which tells me a lot about the 21-year-old shortstop. The other thing that stuck out with Beckman was this statement: “I think everybody is different, everybody plays the game a different way. I play it my way. I would like to lead the White Sox one day the way Derek Jeter leads the Yankees. That would be the kind of leadership role I would like to take.” Had just about any other kid tried attaching himself with the great Jeter, laughter would have ensued. With Beckham, though, you actually can picture his face being out front with the White Sox for 10-15 years. Of course, he’s still got a long ladder to climb. But the bonus baby is off to a flying start. from dailyherald.com First, how can a veteran sportswriter think that someone "slotted" in the first round would be offered that kind of money? That's why there is collusion or salary fixing now in MLB, NFL and NBA, more or less. I hope all the Jeter/Yankees bashers won't be too hard on the kid for making that ambitious comparison.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:39 AM) They are both on the 40 man roster and would have to clear waivers for that to happen. In other words, forget about it. Poreda > Haeger, Broadway, McCullough, Richard and Delray Brooks in one package

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:10 AM) Just seen this on WSI. Hopefully its true. "My guy in PR that told me about Beckham signing on Tuesday, just told me that Danks has agreed to" to a contract? or too?

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 02:24 AM) My guess is that Broadway starts tomorrow, then after the game is optioned back to Charlotte and Richard pitches in that spot next time through the order. With Clayton going up, Charlotte is short a starting pitcher. So I doubt any relievers or Wise will go to Charlotte. Unless somebody is going on the DL. It could be they're just taking it game-by-game depending on our place in the standings and which team matches up better with L/R and their respective pitching styles. I think OG and KW decided with Linebrink's uncertain status, it was better to conserve Carrasco for the bullpen to use 2-4 times per week, rather than just one start every 5-6 days (also taking into consideration there are at least 3 skipped starts for the 5 hole down the stretch).

QUOTE (Drew @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 12:53 AM) Two words: Cory Snyder. Put up stud numbers in Cleveland, lasted 50 games with us and not even getting to the Mendoza line. It could be argued that he was a flash in the pan after his first three seasons. I remember watching him slide to catch a ball in LF, which he missed, and then got up to look at his hand before locating the ball and getting it back into the infield. Cory Snyder Steve Sax Steve Carlton Bo Jackson George Bell Dale Sveum (well, that's pushing it) Dave Stieb Jon Kruk Chris Sabo Jim Abbott Dave Righetti Rob Dibble Joe Magrane

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 04:24 PM) So who blinked? Just curious to see how 2.6 million compares to what expectations were... maybe the draft guys could shed some light? The slot was projected at one point around 2.23 million, so about $370,000 over what the Sox were hoping/expecting to pay. Hey, after all the bonus money wasted on Honel, Broadway, McCullough, Borchard, Ring, etc., what does it matter? Heck, Dave Wilder probably took more than that. I know we're paying MacDougal significantly more just to sit in the bullpen at Charlotte. Not to mention we signed the irreplaceble Po-Yu Lin for $300,000. I hope KW gets Danks signed so we can get some quality outfield depth that can play at the upper levels (AA) relatively quickly.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) He screwed up by leaving the clubhouse during a game. Was that the Tigers' game he started in freezing conditions at home...then he got roughed up and left before the game was finished? I can't remember clearly, but it seems like there was an "impasse" with the front office, he went on the radio and made some comments, and basically KW and Ozzie eventually decided to exile him from the organization. Maybe the actual trade happened later in the season.