MO2005

I can't believe all you guys pushing Wise to the curb like this. He only had some of our biggest hits last season when we needed someone to come through. I don't recall any of our players that are still on this team minus Thome's homer in the one game playoff having huge hits. It's funny how people all the time jump on and off the bandwagon with a player. Who can tell me down the stretch who had bigger hits than Wise?

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Feb 4, 2009 -> 05:51 PM) How many teams in the AL Central do not have ifs/question marks? Every team in baseball has ifs/question marks. The truth of the matter is the Sox have more ifs thatn 2 teams in the central meaning the twins and indians. The indians have sizemore, the twins have Denard Span, and we have Jerry Owens. That's a problem. We are adding Getz/Lillibridge and Fields to our lineup. Fields is NOT Crede at third. Bartolo Colon WILL be our 4th starter and no 5th starter at this point. That's a problem. Konerko's slumps are getting longer and Thome's career is getting shorter. Problem. We have very minimal speed on this team (not counting Owens cause who knows if he'll get on base). That's a problem. Our infield outside of Konerko has minimal experience in the bigs defensively. That's a problem. Just to summarize this team by far is a third or fourth place team on PAPER. Kenny has not made this team better

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 04:07 PM) Speed is underrated, not because stolen bases are cool, but because so many people think that stolen bases are the only impact of speed. There are so many other things that speed buys you. Power hitting is still more important, more of the time. But speed can be a serious value-add for any team. Ok I disagree with you 100 billion percent. Let's look at the leadoff hitter for the last 9 or 10 world series winners. Jimmy Rollins, Dustin Pedroia, David Eckstein, Scott Podsednik, Johny Damon, Juan Pierre, David Eckstein, Tony Womack, and Alfonso Soriano. I'm assuming you are a whitesox fan and if you wouldn't mind explaining why those pesky twins beat us up all the time?? Let's see stolen bases because AJ can't throw anyone out, bunt singles, a runner scoring from 2nd on a hard hit to left field. How many times do you see our players stopping at third? Wouldn't you like to see them score more? So lets fix that with some speed

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) Per Jerry Crasnick espn.com: Negotiations between the Chicago White Sox and free-agent outfielder Bobby Abreu stalled early this week after the team floated the possibility of a one-year, $8 million contract, said a baseball source. The source disputed a New York Daily News report that said the White Sox had made Abreu an $8 million offer but confirmed that the team has been in contact with Abreu's agent, Peter Greenberg, in an effort to gauge the outfielder's asking price. In an e-mail to ESPN.com, Chicago general manager Kenny Williams said Abreu is "a great player and will certainly help any club." But Williams declined to address whether the White Sox have any interest. According to the source, the White Sox have some interest in acquiring Abreu and adding a pitcher, but Williams can't make those moves unless he trades right fielder Jermaine Dye and his $11.5 million salary. And the team has made little or no headway in trade talks involving Dye. It's also uncertain whether the White Sox would save much money by signing Abreu and trading Dye. Abreu was initially looking for a three-year, $48 million deal this winter but then gradually downsized his expectations to $10 million to $11 million annually over three years. Last week, Greenberg told the Seattle Times that Abreu is now open to the idea of signing a one-year contract. But it's believed Abreu is still looking for a base salary of at least $10 million. If the sox made him an offer, then I think they may have something in place with Jermaine Dye or Paul Konerko. Why would they make an offer for a guy who cannot play centerfield and is a right fielder??? The problem still is that this doesn't solve the leadoff issue that we have. If Kenny has something up his sleeve, then by all means please make this team better. I just don't know if this makes us a playoff team or us better? Now if Kenny trades Dye and gets maybe a Figgins, then signs Abreu. Then we are a better team. I mean look at the difference in these lineups.. Figgins Abreu Quentin Thome Konerko Pierzynski Ramirez Fields Getz or Owens Getz Quentin Thome Konerko Dye Pierzynski Ramirez Fields

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) You are 100% correct. Joe Crede from mid September to the end of October was GREAT and Brooks Robinsonesque or dare I say Ron Santoesque . Joe Crede in the first half of 2006 was a monster....... we know how this movie finished. Can we leave Joe Crede out of this now. And seriously how many players in this league are hot all season long besides maybe Albert Pujols? Every player has hot and cold months, but it's what makes the defense and team better. Crede's presence alone was enough even when he was slumping a bit because his defense was always stellar...Let's compare the 2...who would you rather have.. A guy who strikes out less than 100 times a year or more than 150 in a full season? A guy who has been an all star or not? A guy who's defense is predictable or unpredictable? A guy who when we need a clutch hit will deliver or not? I mean Crede over Fields for me anyday even with the back problem.. We got Betemit and Viciedo waiting in the wings..I would sign Crede to a one year deal because the guy is proven. Also what would happen to Joe Joe the late inning hero?

This means nothing to me...Fields hasn't been facing major league pitching or hitting and I think this is just a cover up to the horrible offseason that we have had in terms of picking up pieces to this team.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 10:32 AM) crede(who has never had one great/good FULL season)and his bad back O.k. I hope you are joking and not serious...If you are not, then seriously you are not a real whitesox fan! I mean 2005 Joe was are best clutch hitter and proved it all through the playoffs and world series..He also was the one who pushed us over the edge with the gamewinner against cleveland that year. Apparently you have only been watching the Sox for the last 2 years...

QUOTE (rangercal @ Jan 27, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) go to Charlotte if you want to see them It's called sarcasm... I didn't know soxfest was in Charlotte this year?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 27, 2009 -> 12:55 PM) In front of Q, Thome, and presumably Dye and Konerko and Fields (that's what, 150+ home runs out of those 5 potentially?) I have actually very little urge to see anyone giving up an out deliberately with the bunt. We've seen what that does before...you get your leadoff man on, then the #2 guy bunts him to 2nd, they walk the 3rd place hitter and it sets up the potential to end the inning on a DP if you get the ground ball. Exactly when you have Thome..Dye..or Konerko up..especially Konerko.i mean geez I couldn't tell you how many times I saw him ground into a DP the last two years.. I mean in all honesty for the Sox to compete this year they are going to need a crapload of quentin's and ramirez's from last year from these younger guys..Jerry Owens is not and will not be the answer..quote me on it now! I mean what worries me is let's say these guys have a terrible spring..then what? I mean Beckham needs I'd say another year..Brian Anderson is not the answer in center..Wise is more fit for a utility or giving a guy a day off..Betemit has always been a utility guy his whole career..Fields I am definitely not looking forward to with the potential of striking out 200 times..Frustrating!

Wow I can't wait to see Brett Lillibridge, Chris Getz, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Jeff Marquez..I mean seriously should I keep going..This is by far going to be the worst soxfest that I have been to since I started going..Pathetic!

Nice! Can you please throw 100 mph again

All I have to say is Brian Anderson you Suck! I have never liked this kid for some reason and I am glad that he will not be our starting center fielder next season.

Who cares!! Don't we have anything else to talk about besides Jon Garland? Oh that's right, no!

Wait the Sox signed Bartolo Colon, now we are a 95 win team!!!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 03:15 PM) Viciedo will be $4 million cheaper in 2010 because of his signing bonus. Thome's $13 million-gone Dye's $11 million-$1 million buyout, $10 million-gone Contreras $10 million-gone Dotel $6.5 million-gone That's $43.5 million gone after this season. I think the White Sox can afford more than you think. If half the young players are half as good as KW is spewing, some big ticket contracts could easily be added. No because next year our payroll will be 60-65 million

O.k. lets be serious here. Do you blame anyone for picking this team to be last in our division? The answer no..We have NOT made our team better than last year. All we are doing is taking our over the hill players and mixing them with inexperienced youth. We have 3 starters and question marks on 4 and 5. Our defense is now worse than it was last year, infield in particular. Crede vs. Fields/Betemit, Getz vs. Ramirez at 2nd, and Cabrera vs. Ramirez at shortstop. In all 3 scenarios I would take last year over this and so would the majority. I'm not sure how Ramirez will do at short and last year we had an experienced guy who has played that position his whole career in Cabrera. Outfield is decent, not great. Anderson will be an upgrade defensively over Swisher, but his bat will hurt us in the lineup. Jerry Owens, in my eyes, will be a wash defensively and his bat will hurt us as well in the lineup. From what I have seen with this guy, he has a hole in his swing, and we all know Greg Walker has problems as a hitting coach. (It is only every year we want him fired on soxtalk) Our bullpen is still promising, but Dotel has been injury prone in the past and we all saw Linebrink go down last year. The only problem I see with our bullpen is outside Thornton, we don't really have a promising left hander in our bullpen and if one of those guys go down in Dotel, Thornton, Linebrink, we will be in big trouble! So we all can agree that pitching and defense win championships, right? Well who the hell would think for a second that this team stands a chance in this division when we have holes in both and can beat teams like the Twins and Indians. The Twins missed the playoffs by one game and their youth is only getting better. The Indians made some moves to tweak their roster and have a Cy Young Winner at the top of their rotation. So to be real, I really don't think the critics will be wrong this time. I want to believe, but I can't because the holes we have are too large. Jerry, Kenny, and Ozzie took the wrong turn on this one and at the end of the season it'll be like we told ya so! Just watch!

Mark my words...Jermaine Dye will be the starting right fielder for the Whitesox in 2009!

I'm all for it, waive him in! With the team we have now, I can't wait for this season to be over!

This deal would never get done! First, we all know Kenny is under the radar and everything he wants we never know until it happens. Two, Gavin is inexpensive and had a great year last year. So this topic should go bye bye! And three we all know that Kenny's waiting to sign ARod after his contract is over. He is just saving his money for Arod and Manny when he's about 40-41. Come on guys! Let's snap into reality here! lol

Actually this wouldn't be bad nor would it be good. But I will say it is better than what we got now! Pedro still has something to prove to baseball that he can pitch. I think coming here with no New York/Boston pressure will help him. I would be excited about Lyon because he really only had that bad 2nd half. Other than that has been very effective. We still need a leadoff hitter Kenny!

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 1, 2009 -> 11:26 PM) Are you guys getting that similar feeling like it was the offseason prior to the 2007 season. KW didn't make a lot of moves, just kind of tweeked the team. We all know how that season turned out... I guess the only difference between that season and this season is that KW is letting more of the youth play. In 2007 the only player given a chance to perform was Danks. This year its going to be Getz, Fields and Owens. Hopefully at least one of those players pans out this year. Finally someone who agrees! I have been saying this for the past month and everyday dread the start of this season...That projected lineup doesn't even win 81 games..I say 70-75 tops! There is definitely more youth playing in 2009, but overall common sense knows this team is going to suck bad! Positives (on paper) We have 2 good starters and that's it I put a question mark by Gavin because he had a career year last year. Negatives Richards/Marquez competing for 4 and 5 (that's all I have to say about that) Positives Jerry Owens may steal 40-50 bags Negatives Jerry Owens hits .230 with 0 HR and 20 RBI as leadoff hitter Kenny's offseason quote "pitching and defense wins games and we need a leadoff hitter" My Kenny Williams Interview O.K. Kenny our pitching staff has 2 maybe 3 consistent starters, which means we will have to overuse the bullpen again. What happened when we overused our bullpen last year? Ohh and you say we need a leadoff hitter, but if you are going to use Jerry Owens then why didn't you just say we already have a leadoff hitter for next year. And if you are so high on him, why didn't you use him last year? I know I have a lot of time on my hands and this offseason is aggravating!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 07:57 AM) You could argue the merits of Torii Hunter (I think he's in for a big decline over the life of that contract, just like Soriano), but we were really pretty lucky not to end up with the contract of Fukudome (who the White Sox could still pursue if the Cubs will eat salary) or Rowand. And hopefully Viciedo will come close to approximating Miguel Cabrera Lite (I know, a tall order), but at least we didn't have to part with our future in order to obtain Miggy. I would of parted our future for Miggy! That guy is a stud and at the cell would hit 50 hr's...You know what you are getting with Miggy, but you don't know what you are getting with Viciedo. We'll see

Wow Marquis in Coors Field...He might break the record for most home runs given up in a season! What are the Rockies thinking?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 31, 2008 -> 05:13 AM) The 2.6 mill that the Sox drew in 2007 WAS a pretty weak showing by our fan base, wasn't it? It really looks meager in comparison to the 2.5 mill the Sox drew in 2008...I mean, what a fantastic attendance year this past season was. Do your homework before making false claims. If anything keeps fans away from the park, it'll be the economy. Seeing as how attendance would have to drop by 1 million (that's 1,000,000), it's about as likely to happen as Al Capone rising from the dead. Besides that, even if the craziest case scenario ever happens and they DO average less than 20,000 a game, the Sox are still losing a ton of contracts, have a ton of prospects to deal, and have the pieces and money to spend. What's so hard to understand about that? I think this team is probably a .500 or so team as currently constructed, but the Sox also have some solid younger players to plug into some holes and these kinds of players can surprise. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see Fields put up an .800 OPS nor would I be surprised to see Getz put up .290/.340/.400 type line, and both would be just fine by me. It's the starting pitching I'm concerned about, and I see Williams bringing in a veteran starter or two on incentive laden deals. I don't recall the Kids Can Play era was in 2007? I think that was the old guys can play era...If you read through thoroughly you would notice that I didn't make a false claim, but you made false assumption that I was talking about 2007. To my understanding the Kids Can Play era was in the early 2000's and late 90's.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 30, 2008 -> 05:06 AM) This isn't like 2007 because I doubt Andy Gonzalez and Wasserman will be playing starring roles. If Fields and Owens didn't work out, we have multiple position player options...especially to cover for Josh. CF still remains a hole, though. No matter what, we have a lot more flexibility than in 2007 (the only bad contracts on our books are Contreras and Konerko/Thome, sort of) and our farm system has improved immensely. There was a sense at that time that we might be looking at a 3-5 year rebuilding process, and the Indians and Tigers looked very formidable going forward, to go along with the always pesky Twins. If we're anywhere close at the break, we have more financial flexibility and the minor leaguers to get almost any impact hitter or pitcher we want. That hasn't been the case for quite awhile. It is interesting to ponder whether or not the White Sox would have been able to cut the budget relatively quietly had the economy not gone into tank? Or was this KW's way of simply taking advantage of the pending loss/es of Thome/Dye and eventually AJ and Konerko, one year earlier, with the getting younger/leaner/hungrier/more athletic theme juxtaposed with that a similar image for all of corporate America (like the auto manufacturers)? However, Sox fans have seen the "These Kids Can Play" approach once or twice in their lifetimes, and it only works once with most diehard Sox fans. KW knows this. I think the lack of movement (and there's still around 150 players out there, like Hudson and Roberts via trade) is all of the GM's simply waiting for the tide to flow in their direction, with players like Manny Ramirez eventually realizing the market won't be set by the remaining players...that, in fact, it will be a game of musical chairs and no players/agents will want to be left standing out in the cold. I'm especially curious to see where Cabrera does end up. I bet he and his agent are getting a bit nervous now...his situation could even go into Spring Training, when a team possibly loses their starter to injury and has to gamble on Cabrera for a one year deal. Well Lillibridge and Marquez could very well play those starring roles by the end of the season..who knows? The bottom line is the These Kids Can Play era brought roughly 18-20,000 fans a game...and if we expect to make a run in a few years with that type of fanbase at the stadium, forget about it. Unfortunately we don't have a fanbase that goes to games when they are bad. Let's say we average 20,000 per game next year or less, what then happens in 2009-10 offseason?