almagest

No they are not. No one says that Getz had no involvement. That's impossible - he ran minor league development and was assistant GM. What people are saying is that since we heard he was the one to go over Hahn's head to Jerry and kick this whole process off, that its possible he was also held back by this shitty org and got frustrated enough by it to take action. We're also hoping he can show a glimmer of knowing what the hell he's doing so this thing can turn around. That is by no means absolving him of any blame. The majority of the blame should lie with Hahn, Kenny and JR, though, as they were the ones in charge.

I have seen Hahn dodge a LOT of responsibility around here. He's got nicknames like "Teflon Hahn" for a reason. I also know you've said things about how Hahn gets the majority of the blame around here, too, as though you think he shouldn't. I'm also not making anything up, so you can quit that inflammatory nonsense now. This is how people with different opinions than you view what you post. Go ahead and ask them. There's a reason why you are the only person here who keeps getting into it like this with people.

I don't think anyone here would rather have Getz as GM than literally anyone else qualified. He should have been purged. But he wasn't, so the hope people have is that he knows or can figure out what he's doing.

Oh, come on man. I'm not going to go crawling through your posting history, but I remember PLENTY of cases where you were shitting on Getz and talking about how people want to blame anyone but him. You've also been one of the most consistent people doing this on any post with any level of positivity about things he's been doing, to the point where you've had major clashes with a number of posters here and have even earned yourself post stalkers. Its this continual misrepresentation of people who are trying to find positives in this awful period of Sox baseball that leads to most of the frustration and fighting that's been around here since last season. I'm sure you're a good dude and you've been a huge part in what has been the best place to discuss the Sox on the internet, but you have to understand how frustrating this is for people who have a different opinion than you.

Certainly doesn't seem that way to me - how many times have you told people they must be absolving Chris Getz of any blame because they think Hahn and KW mismanaged this franchise into oblivion?

He has been getting a number of days off recently, even beyond the HBP injury. Yeah, I'm not counting on this guy at all, but I'll root like hell for him.

I think people who look at last year as an inevitable total crash out due to Hahn, KW and JR's mismanagement of the franchise over the last decade+ are the ones who see positives. Anyone who thinks Getz and JR only are main culprits does not. That's become the big divide here.

Yup. I wonder if some of the swing changes they made with him were to reduce the stress on his back, too.

On one hand, this witch hunt is definitely excessive, especially given what the guy actually said. I also saw a bunch of posts online giving his identity and photo away, telling the internet to "do your worst". That's just not acceptable. On the other hand, if this kid is a mouthy brat, this will be a good lesson with lower impact consequences than what could happen if he says the wrong thing to the wrong person.

I've worked on a number of ML and data science initiatives within organizations from tens of millions of dollars in revenue, up to multiple billions. I've also worked with data scientists and machine learning engineers who were self-taught, all the way up to PHDs. I have seen these initiatives be very successful and provide valuable data, and I have also seen them fail, and/or provide negative value. I ran one personally that had initial success with an enterprise customer, but ultimately failed due to lack of internal adoption, data siloing, data cleanliness, and overall budgetary restrictions. I'm a friendly advisor on a startup that is seeking to solve this exact problem for small to mid-sized organizations, particularly ones that are likely to undergo PE acquisition. I am not a data scientist or ML engineer by trade, but I've learned enough to know when someone is being honest, helpful and providing interesting talking points. I think you do that a lot of the time and I do enjoy reading your posts. You're pretty close to calling everyone here stupid when they don't agree with you or have questions, though. WestEddy and CWS are definitely not stupid - they're thoughtful, intelligent posters who bring much needed alternative opinions to a board that is becoming increasingly single-minded and difficult to read (which I do get - not much to be excited about when the MLB team is the WORST TEAM OF ALL TIME). I'd also say the vast majority of posters here aren't stupid, and could certainly understand how you're arriving at your conclusions if you present them well and explain where your findings and evidence come from. If you don't want to - fine. No one can force you, certainly, and you don't owe anyone anything, but don't be surprised or offended when people ask questions or argue. It's the internet - everyone is full of s%*# until proven otherwise. What set off my BS alarm in your case was partially due to the above attitude, as in my experience, people who pull the "you can't understand what I'm doing" card when pushed even slightly are, more often than not, a BS artist. Also, your "25 year pitching success" point just seems like a naive analysis. The reason I brought up hitting success over the same period is because, by WAR and by number of cases of improved/positive contribution, the Sox have been as good or better at hitting development over that 25 year period as they have pitching. We know they've been atrocious at hitting development during the latter KW and for all of Hahn years, though, so that can't be true, which indicates that something definitively got worse during their tenures and it seems unlikely it would apply only to hitting. It also indicates that your analysis could be heavily front-loaded, since A) you have the full career trajectories of these players to consider over the more limited careers of everyone drafted from 2013 on, and B) for a basic, illustrative example, a team could develop 100 WAR of value in the first 10 years, and 0 WAR in the next 10, but still look "good" on average. This "definitively worse" scouting, drafting and player development also highlights some incredibly difficult variables to account for, and given your explanations in this thread, I don't know how (or even if you can) account for them. JR is really the only consistent piece over this 25 year period. The Sox have had multiple GMs, scouting directors, international/US scouts, player development personnel, managers, minor league teams, etc etc. While some of the general organizational philosophies probably haven't changed, each change I mentioned brings a distinct philosophy and approach - probably more than a lot of organizations, because we've all heard how the Sox lacked a unified message and programs for a long time. The philosophies of hitting and pitching have changed a lot - average velocity has risen every single decade, and every single year since 2007. "Tunneling" and "pitch shape" are things we NEVER used to hear about, and now they're all over. Pitching used to be about the number of effective innings, and now it's about strikeouts, max effort, and a 5 inning starter plus a bullpen of guys throwing in the high 90s+. Offensive approaches have changed, too, from "take steroids and mash", to uppercut swings that combat pitchers who live low in the zone, to extremely detailed stats like who keeps the barrel through the hitting zone the longest. Hitters can see a pitchers full arsenal in the box before they even face him. Maybe you've figured out how to account for all of the difficulty here, but I have never met or worked with anyone who could - even the PHD level people were applying off the shelf algorithms most of the time, which would only work for simple use cases at best. I think we also vastly overrate the Sox pitching achievements. Seems like every year for the last decade+ we're all posting about how good the pitching is, then we actually look at where the team ranks in MLB and it's mediocre at best. Also, I genuinely feel for you being stuck in a career you don't enjoy. I've been there, too, as I'm sure many of the people here have. Hopefully you figure out a way out, or at least a way to extract some enjoyment out of what you do. Or make enough really soon to go retire somewhere nice.

Yup. Injuries took their toll, people started struggling, the team couldn't win and out came the chemistry issues. The Sox managed to plug gaps in 2021 but couldn't do it after that, and it all blew up in 2023.

Might've been a case where the guy would be resistant until he saw his current approach wouldn't work at the higher levels. Montgomery also blew through the lower minors and was a consensus top 15 prospect until running into difficulty at AAA last year.

I don't think it made any of them lazy (or lazier than they already were), but it could make them just a bit more complacent, and at this level that might be all it takes. I think the injuries had a much bigger impact than any complacency or laziness, though. Moncada, Robert and Eloy all missed a LOT of time with serious leg injuries + Eloy's chest tear.

Man that 4 PPG on 28% shooting from PWill is gonna put them over the TOP

I appreciate the sentiment. I don't like baseless negativity and personal attacks, so I want to be sure I don't contribute to it. I definitely could've phrased what I said more constructively.

You know what, that was probably too aggressive. My bad - don't mean to be a dick.

I've been a software developer, manager and senior leader working in ops, app dev, data and ML for over 20 years. While you make good points about how ML works and what pitfalls to avoid, you absolutely talk out of your ass a good chunk of the time and it's hilarious to watch you vent hot air all around here. Still waiting on those sources.

I don't see Sosa as more than a second division regular or bench player on a good team because of his chase rate. He's the worst regular in baseball at swinging outside the zone. That'll limit his ceiling to probably about what he is right now. That is still light years ahead of what we've had at second for a while, though. Put him at second until someone better moves up through the system.

I’m not engaging in petty insults. Have a good night.

Yeah, it is, unless you can explain how you linking "Bannister being here almost two years" with "a bunch of pitching injuries" is not casting the blame at his feet.

Sudden or not, you're still saying Bannister deserves the blame.

No, you said "Brian Bannister was hired is September of 2023. That is plenty of time." in reply to "Did everyone all of a sudden make changes that caused a ton of injuries? Maybe, but I doubt it would take effect that quickly". It's pretty clear what you were insinuating.

Cease is exactly the kind of pitcher that has a lot of his flaws hidden by that "stability". He labors through innings, struggling with command and putting people on base. BBRef gives example scenarios in their WAR description that sound a lot like Dylan Cease command struggle innings. There's a reason the Sox didn't get the kind of package we all wanted for him, and there's a reason rumors were swirling that San Diego was thinking about trading him. You also haven't answered where you're getting those pitching rankings from.

There's a BIG difference between saying that a pitcher with better stuff needs less stuff enhancement or guys on the margins will go after any advantage they can get, and saying that the sole reason why a bunch of pitchers got hurt this year is due to Brian Bannister being hired in late 2023.

Not in bWAR, which is a more complete stat for pitchers because it doesn't rely so heavily on FIP. By bWAR he's had an ace year, a #2 year, a #2/#3 year, a #4/#5 year, and this year is on target for another 4/5 finish.