Kenny Hates Prospects

There's talk about the Bedard deal as being a comparison. Sherrill Jones > Flowers, but Flowers' stock is rising so that gap could be closing Tillman > Hudson, but again Hudson's stock is rising and Tillman wasn't as big of a prospect at the time of the deal as he is now Kam Mickolio Tony Butler... don't know if we have a comparable here, maybe Leesman? So would you deal Flowers + Poreda + Hudson + Jones + Leesman for Halladay? I would if I thought we had a good chance of working out an extension over the offseason. Making the playoffs would definitely help our cause, and with Halladay, I think we do that.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) The s*** has been beaten out of the horse long ago on Brian Anderson. He got his shot, he's blown it. It's over. edit: still better than Wise though and the only semi-viable option in CF with Quentin out. Agree. I've called for him to get a regular shot for a long time, but now he's had it, so it's over. Keep him as the 4th OF, start Pods in CF while we're in contention this year, and get someone here in 2010. The last thing I'll say is I hope when D2 gets here we don't give him the BA treatment, where we say he's a starter and is there for his D, and then turn around and throw him under the bus. I hope the Sox have learned from the BA experience so that the next time we bring up a top CF prospect we have a resolution one way or the other much sooner. The 4 years straight of questions in CF has not been fun.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 04:09 PM) Even more dominant than the fight against Penn? I'll make my picks in a couple of days...still undecided on a lot of the fights. I think so, because if he dominates the bigger, stronger Alves it'll be a lot more impressive than dominating the much smaller Penn. Fitch and the third Hughes fight were his best performances so far IMO. Serra was impressive too but Serra at his best is probably a second-tier 155'er, just under the BJ/Florian/Maynard/Diego/Sherk/Edgar group. Remember Alves actually walks around as a small HW (206+) and on fight day is going to be well over the MW limit (I think Meltzer actually had him at 199 before the Hughes fight). Alves is a big dude. I think GSP is going to take him down repeatedly and dominate him, and if he does that it'll send the message that he can beat some top-level MW's, as Alves could comfortably fight at MW and still not be undersized if he felt like it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:19 PM) And they do go see them 8 miles north. I understand the demographics of the two teams in Chicago, but from the way you describe things, Dick, it certainly doesn't seem to follow on the North side from what I can tell... How many of those tickets per game belong to corporate functions and the like though? The last time I was there I was waiting for someone to fall backwards on top of me hoping I catch him, or waiting for the camp counselor to come out and explain the safety rules of helping your coworker across a rope bridge. Plus it's a heavy tourist area as well.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:09 PM) This is Chicago, not Kansas City, not Minnesota, not Detroit, not Baltimore, not Milwaukee. This is a major market with a relatively high standard of living being achieved. Prices are not going to be what they are in Cincinnati. Get over it. Sox fans are probably some of the most finnicky, most prone to complaining and whining, and defensive people in all of sports. The Dodgers series should have drawn better; it was a series against the best team in baseball right now, one of the mlb's historic franchises, a team from another major market, etc. I don't think there is any question that the team should have drawn better that series. The Sox always do lots in walk-ups and purchases within the last few days before a game,and playing like s*** doesn't help that cause. The Dodgers have been to town before and will be again. The novelty of interleague play isn't going to last forever, and personally, the Dodgers don't do anything for me. I'd rather see a game vs. the Royals because there's at least a bit of a rivalry there and I know all the players.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:07 PM) Agreed...starting the season with Lillibridge, Owens (later), Anderson, Corky Miller, MacDougal, Betemit, D. Wise, Colon/Contreras...that was just PRACTICALLY BEGGING for trouble. Fields and Getz weren't sure things either, although both looked very good in ST. He really got bailed out a bit by Colon and Richard, now Contreras...and the emergence of Pods and Beckham to breathe some life into the offense. It's amazing the change now, and how other complementary players like Getz have less pressure upon them and can stay within themselves and quit trying to press to do too much. And that's without Quentin for two months. Great point about Pods. Without him Kenny would have to think a lot more about reasons why the fans aren't showing up as much as was anticipated.

The worst part is that fake, unconcerned, half-ass non-committal diplomatic tone. He'd be better off saying, "Screw the fans for not showing up" instead of pretending to be somewhat unaware of the reasons for the low attendance. People are out of work, and they're not just going to come in droves after a nice stretch because last time your team did that they threw it right back in our faces by playing like horses***. And, you started DeWayne Wise in CF and backed it with your own personal mantra of "I don't care what people think," so take that you f***wad. I almost always defend Kenny and I think he's a top GM in the league, but some of his comments are really indefensible. Just come out and say whatever you're going to say, but don't sit there and hide behind this "I think" and "I don't know" bulls***. You know your farm system of previous years is a big part of the reason we're playing these young guys right now.

Not Lincecum because his delivery still scares me. Don't know about Hanley because we'd move him to CF and he'd probably make enough mistakes that his offense wouldn't appear quite as ungodly. Justin Upton, Pujols, Haren, and Longoria all get it done for me though. The main thing is that yes, there will be lots of guys who are better players, but Gordon is very cheap for a long time. Either a young, proven ace workhorse or a young, proven elite hitter under team control.

LOL Chris Rongey just now, "I don't think you'll look back on the 2009 Sox and say 'That was a great team.'" Edit: "I think this is a decent team but they've got a little ways to go before I'd call them a good team." Kenny, holy s***, are you hearing this?!?!

If the Sox keep winning and don't hit another major swoon then the fans will come. Simple as that. I like how Kenny says "I think it's a reflection upon the economy of what's kind of happened with regards to attendance and I don't know if we've played consistent enough, or been exciting enough for people to get behind us. We're still hopeful." Really Kenny? You THINK people might be out of work right now? You DON'T KNOW that your team sucked before this streak? I guess you must be shocked to find out that people who don't have money to spend decide against buying tickets to watch a team that they don't have any confidence in, huh?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...0,5313097.story

MLBTR doesn't make s*** up. Other writers do, and they report it. This is from the Baltimore Sun.

Felix Pie for Fields? Come the f*** on. Just DFA Fields if that's the case. Per MLBTR.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:18 PM) I don't believe that you can offer someone less than their present salary in arbitration. I'm talking about the negotiation window prior to the arb deadline where a deal has to be signed. I didn't think you could offer much less than arb but apparently you can. I don't know for sure though. I do know we lost Everett and Alomar after '03 because of these issues though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:06 PM) You have to either re-sign a player like Thome, Dye, Dotel by about December 1st of each year. If you do not offer them arbitration, you can not resign that same player until about April 1. If you do offer them arbitration, they have about 6 weeks to decide whether they want to accept, during which time you can continue to negotiate with them. That makes sense then. So say we offer Dotel $3.5M and Thome $6M + some small incentives. Thome and Dotel both decide to test FA, so we deny arb. So then if they decide they like their offers later, doesn't that mean we still can't sign them until like June or something, which means they're gone? And even if we could sign them later, we'd have already likely met or come very close to meeting our budget by the time they accept our initial offers. So basically unless both Thome and Dotel want to immediately accept low-ball offers well below arb and forgo FA to stay, they're gone after the year.

QUOTE (G&T @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:01 PM) Here's my problem: If his value is maximized in a trade package, then he has no real value at all. Kinda like how we got Tyler Flowers, because alone he wasn't worth Javy?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:54 PM) Look at it this way...if it does come to pass. Jim Thome (DH, assuming Konerko stays) and Tony Pena >>> Brandon Allen and Octavio Dotel for 2010 They'll just take the money from Dotel and that would be a nice number (maybe a bit higher) to keep Thome around one more year...he certainly doesn't have any reason to want to leave Chicago or go to the NL, so it seems his options are pretty limited. And getting to 600 homers in a White Sox uniform would be another nice story for the franchise. Thome is probably gone. IIRC - and I may be wrong - but I think that once we hit that negotiation window we're somehow not allowed to offer much less than arb in a contract offer. Isn't that how we lost Everett and Alomar the first time? If so, Dotel is gone for the same reason. It's not that I don't think Pena has talent, and it's not that I'm crushed we dealt Allen, but I would have rather packaged Allen if nothing else for either a position player or another pitcher who hasn't been on a straight decline for the last two seasons and is incapable of gaining the manager's trust even on a bad NL team. I don't have a problem dealing most of our prospects, but I don't feel like we even shopped Allen.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:46 PM) It's not the Vazquez deal alone (I did group it with Swisher for a reason), it's just that I've collectively linked them as proof that last offseason was not very good for our scouts and Williams. For Flowers to be the only thing decent coming out of Swisher and Vazquez is just a reality that is incapable of being spun positively. Mainly, the issue here is that you cant acquire a total of seven players in exchange for two of your major leaugers (who are both doing well for their respective teams, BTW), and hope that only ONE becomes productive. And Flowers better turn into something or else it will really be looked at as a terrible offseason of trades for Williams. Gilmore is still young, but I'd be lying if I said his numbers this year have been impressive. He's waaaay inconsistent and a butcher at third. Santos Rodriguez sounded like the #2 guy in that deal and he's just getting started, so we'll have to wait a while. Nunez I like as a future reliever. But you're right, Flowers is the only marquee guy from those deals at this point. Marquez doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:17 PM) If we want to look into some more advanced statistics (which obviously we do), we see that Pena's tRA and FIP over the past couple of years are very good and both those metrics are far better for predicting future success than ERA. But why hasn't his actual production matched his true ability? Bad luck? Whatever it is I'm sure Coop'll fix it. I'm sure bad luck accounts for his .276 BAA vs. righties, .317 BAA vs. lefties, and 1.938 WHIP on the road. AZ fans are sure happy to see him gone. Hopefully Coop sees something though, and I hope Kenny talked with Coop and gave Coop some video beforehand.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:25 PM) It's surprising that Lillibridge was actually a 3rd round pick. Then again, the Pirates drafted him. What's even more surprising is that he was the main piece in the Adam LaRoche deal. Mike Gonzalez was the main piece in that deal.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:18 PM) If you think relievers are overrated, simply refer back to the 06 and 07 seasons, especially 07. KW was forced to pay top dollar for Dotel and Linebrink (both coming off injuries or tired/sore arms) because his 12 LH candidates and the likes of Aardsma and Sisco didn't pan out here with the Sox. Look at it this way...when we let Dotel go at the end of the season, we can use another chunk of money somewhere where we need improvement (CF, 5th starter, 3B, etc.) You can't catch lightning in a bottle with the likes of Hermanson, Politte and Cotts (05) more than once every five years or so, so you have to spend the money on some solid veterans or underachieving youngsters with top stuff unless you want to undermine the confidence of the entire team by blowing an interminable number of games at the set-up stage. We have Fields, Viciedo, Phegley and Flowers (not to mention Paul Konerko through next year)...so I hardly think depth is a problem You don't like giving up his athleticism and LH bat (might we now be more serious about Thome for one more year?), but it's a no-brainer. C. Carter had a lot more potential than Allen and KW traded him, too. I wholeheartedly disagree that this trade is a "no-brainer." A "no-brainer" means getting a guy who is awesome now and under control, not someone who doesn't miss bats in the National League. I have faith in Kenny's judgement so I'll wait and see, but this was definitely not a no-brainer. Carter and Allen were basically the same player, raw athletic 1B drafted out of high school with lots of power, except one hit lefty and the other righty. I have no idea why Carter would have a ton more potential than Allen. Allen to me looked like the better player. If Carter played in Birmingham and Allen had stayed in Birmingham then their numbers would likely almost mirror each other. I don't understand how we can just trade Allen and then talk about Fields. Allen is a lot better bet than Fields at this point.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:42 PM) Even still, seems like a "Giving up on Allen" type of move to me. Seems more like Kenny is salivating over another power reliever again. Pena has legit closer's stuff and on talent alone is probably worth Allen but I'm very saddened by this. I think Allen is going to be a better player than people give him credit for, and now if we have Flowers penciled in at C, who is going to play 1B in the future?

Pena has a great arm but I f***ing loathe this deal. WHY???? We could have called up Santeliz or Jones if we wanted an electric righty reliever who would struggle to pitch in the big leagues. My GOD I hate this move.

QUOTE (IamPabloOzuna @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) the guy from MLBTR is crazy The MLBTR guys are bloggers and armchair GM's in general, just like us, except they don't know anywhere near as much about the Sox as we do. The writers are there to collect articles so we don't have to bother checking 100 different publications. Their opinions aren't really worth anything. Flowers + Viciedo + Poreda + Hudson + Carter should get Halladay on a plane right now, but I highly doubt we'd do anything like that. Beckham definitely makes it happen. To say we might not part with a package that the Jays want is one thing, but to suggest we don't have the pieces is just a lack of knowledge. That's why the guys at BA, ESPN, etc. are supposed to do these chats and the MLBTR guys are not supposed to do them, because even if you disagree with the mainstream guys, they still at least know their farm systems. IMO if MLBTR wants to do these things they should hire better personnel.

So what are everyone's picks for UFC 100? I can't f***ing wait, I'm so psyched about that card. My picks: Lesnar TKO within the 1st 2 rounds. Size , strength, speed, quickness, power, wrestling, clinch work, and cardio all go to Brock. Ground advantage? Still Brock IMO because he showed against Herring that he won't put himself in positions that easily allow an opponent to gain top position. He'll be content sitting in (not standing in) Mir's guard and he's strong enough, explosive enough, and learned enough by now to be able to avoid the types of head and arm submissions Mir will throw at him while he's getting his face pounded in. The only advantages Mir has are experience, BJJ, and boxing technique. I think this a really bad matchup for Mir because he's either going to have to beat him up on the feet while avoiding Brock's power and reach advantage - and also avoid Brock's explosive shot because the clinch is Brock's strongest game IMO - or he'll have to either get Brock on his back or somehow catch him in a sub off his back, which is going to be very hard given Lesnar's ability to easily take dominant position. GSP via TKO in 4th or later or else a UD. I think GSP is going to put on a wrestling clinic and completely break Alves mentally by the 3rd round. Alves has some very good TD defense but Hughes got him down and Kos didn't really try very hard, so I don't see it being enough to beat GSP's awesome wrestling. This will be GSP's most dominant victory ever. I think Alves will look completely lost and will have no answer after he spends 3 straight round on his back. He'll get scared to throw kicks and will try to box GSP, but GSP will just take him down again. I see GSP using his wrestling very early because Alves will be very strong in the first couple rounds, but since Alves cuts a lot of weight I think GSP's gameplan is going to be to wear him out with the wrestling early so he has a strength advantage later and Alves' strikes lose power. Bisping UD/SD. I see Bisping using boxing and footwork to out-point Hendo in a close fight. He should have the better cardio in the third and Hendo won't be able to take him down. !st round to Hendo, 2nd to Bisping in a close round, 3rd to Bisping easily. Then Bisping proceeds to act like a dick and call out Anderson. Rooting for Hendo, but won't be sad to see Anderson obliterate Bisping if Bisping wins. Fitch should beat the hell out of Thiago. Taking Belcher via KO/TKO or decision. He hung in there with Kang until Kang pulled a Kang and then he beat him by being a very solid, well-rounded, underrated fighter with lots of heart. If Akiyama can't get him down and keep him down he'll be in some trouble. Taking Bonnar but don't know how. Age aside, I just can't see Coleman handling that weight cut. Miller over Danzig by decision or GNP TKO. He's the better wrestler and is just as good if not better everywhere else IMO. Jonny Bones Jones via whatever he wants! Man I wish they'd put this fight on the main card. O'Brien has come a long way and looks pretty good as a LHW but Jones' wrestling and athletic ability should win out, even though O'Brien definitely has wrestling himself. Taking Stun Gun over Grant. Grant is a pretty hyped prospect so I'd like to see him, but man, DHK is one hell of a task in your first fight. Dollaway vs. Lawlor - who gives a f*** Grice vs. Gugerty - seen both fight but don't remember them, so no pick.