Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (shakes @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 06:23 PM) It may be a way to dump Linebrink. It's the only way this could make sense. Linebrink is actually worse because we still have to pay him next year and he has a full NTC. When it comes to bad deals with 1+ year remaining though, most of them are much more expensive than Linebrink and are even worse, like Oliver Perez and Carlos Silva (despite his start this year, which is bound to end in flames).

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 3, 2010 -> 06:22 PM) lol, Kotsay *is* a whipping boy around here, because he sucks, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here. He gets ripped for the same reason Wise did, because he is a below average player that is good when used in a certain role but gets way too much playing time. Actually the season isn't even half over yet and he's pretty close to getting more PAs than Wise did in either '08 or '09. And both scenarios existed because upper management did nothing to address a glaring need. It's kind of f***ed up how Kenny Williams can sit there with his thumb up his ass all offseason and then the fans end up getting mad at the players, who normally would be very good in their proper roles. I think most of us end up doing it too. I b****ed about Wise all the time and then I still defend Kenny. But f*** Kenny.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 3, 2010 -> 01:49 PM) That's pretty much it. I just can't subscribe to "I'm quitting" the Sox. I mean for how long? Until they get good again? Then acknowledge you're a bandwagoner and leave it at that. Isn't that the exact definition of a bandwagoner? And to answer caufield's question, my first game was in 1991 against the Blue Jays. For me, the strike and the '95 season that followed was the most trying time to be a Sox fan. The organization was in total disarray after looking like a potential powerhouse. But I never once "quit" on the team. Does that mean I've never turned a game off in which we're getting our asses kicked early? Of course not. Does that mean I've never turned to something else, whether it be another sporting event or some random TV show, if the Sox are 12 games out with 20 to go? Of course not. Have I ever bypassed going to a Sox game for something else because the team was bad? You better believe it. But there's a big difference between that and making claims (which most people never follow through on anyway) that they're "quitting" the White Sox. This is probably a bad analogy, but it's like those who talk about suicide before doing it. Those that make it known have no intention of doing it but are just looking for attention. If you're gonna off yourself, do it. Don't talk about it. That was my point to Shipps. If you've been a fan through all those bad seasons then you should be quite accustomed to pissed off fans who feel ripped off and/or hurt by the organization saying they're quitting the team. However, very few people who are fans enough to post here ever will quit the team. I also don't get the correlation between hardcore baseball fans who threaten to give up an interest that probably eats away far too much of their time as it is and those people who are truly suicidal and are threatening to put their loved ones through hell for the rest of their lives. You kind of want people who feel suicidal to talk about their problems so they can get help. Because you know, there are a lot of people on this board even who have had friends or relatives kill themselves, so that's not very cool. I figure your point is that you're such a hardass that you do everything you say when you say you're going to do it, and everyone else should follow suit, and also that baseball, like life or death, is a serious matter that should never be taken lightly under any circumstances. But in reality, this is a message board that survives entirely because of pissed off fans who feel the need to b****, use hyperbole, make broad generalizations and outlandish statements, etc. So basically, if everyone who felt like b****ing and threatening to quit the team left the board, then there really would be no reason to have the board in the first place, and if that were the case, you and I both would have no place to lecture our fellow Sox fans. So that's not good for anyone.

QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 09:28 PM) Hey guys, im planning a road trip from chicago to boston for the next ufc fan expo in august. I just wanted to know if anyone has gone to one of these before and can tell me how the experience is, and would it be worth the drive, and how does the whole autograph session deal work? Ill implode if Diego Sanchez and Thiago Silva are some of the guys at the expo giving autographs. I've never been to one, but they have Grappler's Quest there and all kinds of other stuff. It seems that everyone from the fighters to the UFC brass to the ring girls are very approachable, so it should be a blast if you go. And if you do, of course you have to let everyone here know about it. One thing though, you might want to get one of those UFC Fight Club memberships beforehand because I think you need one of those to get into the Q&A sessions as well as the HoF induction events, assuming they have another, which they probably will now.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 10:37 PM) The entire organization is in a sad state. Even the guys down in Charlotte are doing pretty bad. So even if we do deal the veterans (and we will), we have nobody to bring up other than maybe Viciedo for 3b. Time to re-stock the farm! This makes no sense though. So we suck and our prospects suck, so now we should get more of them by trading off players who actually don't suck?!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) Teahen's a little older, but he was still highly regarded on the way up and has still put up an .874 OPS for a full season (and a 122 OPS+). Even though that was 2006, we're counting on Quentin to do a lot based on a couple seasons ago, etc. I know why people's instincts are to go after Teahen, but look, unless he picks his game up big time, he should be basically an average bat that we can plug in somewhere that we have a hole. If he's down there hitting 8th and putting up slightly below average numbers, great. Teahen becomes a problem when his defense is awful (and this year, it's been godawful, worst of his career by a long shot) or if the guys we're counting on to be significantly above average don't come through. Quentin was a beast in 2008 and then he broke his wrist. Going into 2010, we saw 2009 as the lingering effects of that surgery combined with other injury problems. 2010 was supposed to be the first healthy season for Quentin since he was a beast, and of course he's struggled mightily. But in terms of talent Quentin still eats Mark Teahen. Teahen OTOH did something very good 4 years ago, and those numbers 4 years ago were an aberration that has actually held up his career numbers to make him appear better than he actually is. Just because people here talked up Teahen all offseason doesn't mean he is/was anything special. He was a poor defensive UT on the verge of being non-tendered who Kenny irresponsibly gave up players for and committed 3 years to. It's like Kenny Williams was possessed all offseason and just got his soul back.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 02:19 PM) Has this team showed you any signs they could compete with the Tigers and Twins? They don't have to be world beaters to be 8.5 games better then us. The split with the Rays and won the last two series prior to that. Come back and take 2-of-3 from the Rangers and that's 4 positive series in a row. It's June 2nd, and remember how late it was in 2003 when Kenny made those acquisitions. The Sox just need some pieces and I've seen nothing to show me that the Twins and Tigers can't fall victim to a few 3-7 stretches down the line. I mean the Twins are just 10 games over and at the start of the year people here were basically calling them juggernauts. Let's just try to win please.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 02:16 PM) You know, I'm not quite sure where all the venom directed at Teahen is coming from. He's been worse defensively than he's supposed to be, but so have some other people, and a lot of the other guys on the team have been worse with the bat than him. Quentin, Pierre, Beckham, Ramirez, Nix, Vizquel, Pierzynski, Beckham all have OPS's well below Teahen's, and at least Quentin's defense has been just about as bad too. Where are the posts saying people will go out of their minds watching quentin or beckham suck next year? The difference is that Quentin, Beckham, Ramirez, and AJ have all done things that show they deserve some rope. Even Pierre as well I guess, although I hate him. Nix and Vizquel are good comparisions because they're bench players, which is what Mark Teahen should be.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 02:12 PM) You guys that have season tickets will go out of your mind watching a team with Teahen playing LF or 1B or anywhere next year. It'd be tough to pay money to watch him play on a regular basis as he has this year before he got hurt. Do you just try to drink n eat all game and enjoy the ballpark experience rather than think about him being out there? Yeah, and this is where it gets complicated, because the fans don't like watching that crap. Mark Teahen would be better served standing there below the fan deck with a hose in his mouth. We can call it the Fountain of Suck and every time an opposing player hits a home run we can shoot it off and put colored lights on it.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 02:09 PM) Kenny isn't going to DFA a guy with $10M remaining on his contract. He could deal him for a throw-away prospect while eating a portion of that salary, but he tends to not do that. It's more likely that Teahen plays LF and Pierre is the odd man out. I agree. I'm just saying that if playing him at 1B/corner OF was the only option available, straight DFAing him would still be a better idea. Teahen will in all likelihood end up as one of the most expensive UT men in baseball, and it'll probably be with us. And he'll probably be just as bad in the field with us as he was with the Royals. Great find, Kenny.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 01:47 PM) Vizquel can at least field the position, and is going to give you the same sort of offensive numbers that Teahen has to this point anyway. I'd much rather have Vizquel anyway, even if Teahen would hit better. We're not scoring runs, and when the team isn't scoring runs you can't afford to play bad defense. Since Mark Teahen is our worst defensive player and since he is also one of our s***tiest offensive players, taking him out and subbing in an even worse offensive player who can at least play GG defense is still a net upgrade. If baseball players were fruit, Mark Teahen would be a sack of rotten apples. Go Royals.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) Teahen's OPS has been significantly better than Vizquel's. I realize that's a "tallest midget" comparison, but at least Teahen's is capable of an occasional extra-base hit. Agreed about his defense, though. I foresee Teahen moving to 1B or a corner OF position next year. LOL, I hope you don't mean 1B or corner OF for the Chicago White Sox. At that point you may as well DFA him and eat the rest of his bad contract, because there will be reclamation projects available at the league minimum over the offseason who will offer far greater upside at those positions than Mark Teahen would.

QUOTE (zenryan @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:36 AM) I am looking forward to seeing Evans being on the end of another highlight reel KO. Put I'm sure his gameplan will be to lay and pray for 25 minutes. Rashad's gameplan wasn't lay and pray at all. The goal was to use Rampage's time off against him by making Rampage play Rashad's game and taking the fight to the third. In the meantime, Rashad worked every time he was in position to, but Rampage did a great job of getting to his feet and defending. QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ May 31, 2010 -> 01:21 AM) I thought the main event was just bleh. I can handle that my favorite fighter didn't implement his gameplan like he should of, but it seems that he went to the GSP school of thought to win this fight. Except GSP attempts to finish every now & then it seems. Let's see Rashad try that against Shogun's muay thai & underrated BJJ game. I'd like to think that Forrest/Rampage II would be a nice fight on deck. Rampage didn't have a chance to implement his gameplan because Rashad wouldn't let him do it. Rashad tried to finish Rampage and tried to finish/work toward a finish when he had Rampage down, but he couldn't keep him there long enough. My problem with Rashad in this fight (and I don't think it's GSP's mentality, it's more Greg Jackson) is that Rashad should have used the third to make a statement. Rashad could have taken out Rampage but he opted to play it safe and it hurt him in the end, and he almost got finished as a result. Whether you like Rashad or not, it's very clear that the guy is an amazing athlete who is very well-rounded, works hard and picks up things quickly, and who also listens to his coach, so he should *in theory* not have to try to squeak by tough opponents. In theory, this guy should be able to use all of his skills instead of just a couple. I'm really starting to detest Greg Jackson because I'm a Rashad fan and I don't think he's helping Rashad at all anymore, and now I'm scared he's going to impress this safety s*** on Jon Jones, which would be nothing short of a travesty. I thought months back that Rashad would basically do in the first 2 rounds what he did do (except I thought he'd use more of a Forrest/Jardine gameplan instead of wrestling only) but I figured he'd try to wear out and frustrate Rampage for 2 rounds by using his full MMA arsenal and taking the fight 10-9 easily each round. Rashad did that. I thought, however, that the point of doing this would be to force Rampage out of his game and get Rampage to come at him like a worn-out, frustrated brawler instead of a well-conditioned, worry-free boxer, which would allow Rashad to use his handspeed and quickness to his advantage when countering. But of course Rashad played the first part of the plan perfectly and then instead of trying to win a fight convincingly he tried to win an athletic contest by a p**** hair. I can't stand that crap at all from fighters as talented as Rashad is. As soon as Rampage became aggressive he backed up like a wuss instead of setting him up like he should have. And the thing is, anyone who stands in front of Chuck and looks to KO him dead is no wuss, so I think it's Greg Jackson getting to him. But man that pisses me off. Anyway, against Shogun Rashad *will* have to use his wrestling for all 5 rounds simply out of necessity, since Shogun is better than him in every other area sans maybe power, where they could be equals. I think Shogun will take Rashad out before the 5th, but Rashad has a much better chance against Shogun than Rampage would have in a rematch IMO.

What is the point of this thread?

Voted no. Last I checked the season didn't end on June 2nd. Teahen getting the hell out of here is a blessing. Get some pieces, because the Tigers suck and the Twins are far from world beaters.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 12:57 PM) Except he makes 8 times more. What would be the Red Sox motivation for eating all but the pro-rated minimum left on Lowell's deal and getting nothing at all in return? The fact that they were on the verge of getting Max Ramirez for Lowell and eating 3/4 of his deal says they should probably hold out for a decent young player. Decent young players are no longer an option. The Red Sox motivation would be to clear up a bench spot, remove an unhappy player, etc. No one is taking on any part of that contract right now. If the Sox make a deal, expect something like Jhonny Nunez for Lowell with the Red Sox eating everything but the prorated minimum. And right now that would be a good deal for the Red Sox.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 18, 2010 -> 01:26 AM) You just put caulfield to shame. Do you really think anybody is going to read this? 1. You did... 2. What do you have against Caulfield? He's a far better poster than you are.

Wait a sec... Lyoto didn't just have one good performance, his entire career has been nothing but superb performances. He was in a very close fight with Shogun the first fight and then he changed his style in the second fight and got KTFO for it. That doesn't mean he was overhyped. I don't know how you could watch him execute his style and feel he is/was overhyped. Fedor should abolish Overeem. People are thinking that because Fedor had some issues with Rogers' size that Overeem, being better than Rogers and also big, would test Fedor. But Fedor would do what he always does and school Overeem. I actually think Overeem is an easier fight for Fedor than a rematch with Rogers would be since Overeem is going to fight Fedor's fight and Rogers in a rematch probably wouldn't. My guess would be that Rogers would try to use his one advantage (size) against Fedor. Alistair would just stand there and let Fedor KTFO him because as talented a kickboxer he is, he's not quick enough to utilize his reach and there's no way he'd be able to stop Fedor from coming inside and raping him. I mean, why do you think Coker is saying that even if Fedor wins he may not get Overeem? Coker doesn't want another Shields situation where the champ takes the belt and bolts. Coker is starting to act a lot more like a real promoter instead of that happy-go-lucky "we just wanna give back to the fans" guy he had been portraying himself as. Arlovski looked terrible. I mean, if your gameplan is to outbox a dude, and you know you have very little in the way of power and you're looking for the decision, then for the love of God don't just stand in front of the guy and take power shots left and right. The AA with Roach would have annihilated the AA that fought Bigfoot. The same AA that fought Fedor or Rothwell would have torn the Strikeforce AA a new asshole and then used it as a hat. It's sad what has happened to that dude. I think Fedor ate his soul or something. Jacare is just so fun to watch. He's one of those dudes that fans of athletes just fall in love with. The things that guy can do... Okay, sounding gay now... Isn't Babalu next for King Mo? Maybe not, but I thought they mentioned him or something. Agree on Roger, but all that will take time. It's just nice to see a Gracie get a televised win for a big US promotion. Agree on Strikeforce's production too, and really everything including the entrances as well. The video packages are also weak. I can't stand Gus Johnson either. I do like the thing they do with the main events where they play the gong sound and hit the lights. It's a nice touch and I'm happy they keep doing it.

--Because it isn't a smart way to run a business? Cost control is an important part of every major league team, and the really good ones are able to develop talent internally while acquiring major league vets to complement a young, talented core. If you want to say that Sox prospects tend to fail more than other teams, that's fine, and it may be true, but that says some pretty awful things about the way this team is run and points toward needing major restructuring.-- It's easy to talk about developing players internally, but look at how long that takes and how much that costs. We don't spend that kind of money on the draft or through international free agency, so we can't be like Boston. And we don't lose over and over so we can't be like the Rays or maybe the future Orioles. We can be better than we have been, but coming up with Hudson and Beckham in one draft is already about as good as you can expect to be. So the need for a major restructuring might be a bit overstated, but I've always b****ed about the way we allocate resources in terms of the farm and the bench. We always seem to spend too much on the bench and too little on the farm, and I've had those gripes for a long time. --I think you'll find that the returns for players with question marks, especially MAJOR RED FLAG question marks like Danks, are minimal. D2 could maybe net us a bench player or middle reliever, and not a particularly good one. Flowers could get a marginal MLB starter. Meanwhile, Flowers himself could become an All-Star.-- I disagree 100%. I personally am not in love with either of those guys but realistically, prospects of that level bring good returns. Teams that are more or less forced to trade veterans don't have a ton of leverage and usually the returns for the veterans look a bit underwhelming. I definitely think we could get a pretty decent player for D2 and a pretty awesome player for Flowers. Also, while Flowers *could* become an All-Star, he also *could* become an absolute nobody. --Payroll is a major issue for this team, because despite being in a large market, it has lost the lions share of it to the crosstown rivals. The Sox are, in essence, a mid market team stuck in a large market city. They have attendance issues every year, even when they win, and while they had some wiggle room coming in to this season, there was a definite limit to what they would spend. As to Kenny's MO, I think we're starting to see the logical consequence of his actions - Marginal major league talent, very thin minor league talent, and 100 mil in payroll.-- Disagree again here. The Sox had more money than they let on and we didn't know this until the Damon negotiations. The Sox are in the position they are in now because Kenny Williams listened to Ozzie and neglected the offense. This was a moronic thing to do and now they are paying for it. The idea that they lost money to the Cubs is nuts. The Sox fans are there, they just don't want to show up in droves to see the s***ty NL-style offense that everyone with a brain knew would fail squander decent-to-strong pitching performances, nor do they want to see Mark Teahen let everything get by, etc. They want to see a winning baseball team, and I think Sox fans by and large are disappointed (as they should be) with Kenny Williams and his absolute failure of an offseason. I absolutely do not see this as a dire situation, and I don't think it means we're a small market team. I think Kenny needs to put a f***ing winner out there and then the fans will show up. Make an effort at least. Kenny's actions outside of this offseason though? Let's see... where did he go wrong? It's easy to say he traded the farm and now it's bare, but where are all these great players he gave up? The only deal that really has hurt so far is the first Swisher deal and even that one wasn't all that bad, all things considered. We gave up solid and potentially solid players, but no All-Stars, no franchise cornerstones. The problems are with the minor league situation, everything from s***ty draft budgets to poor scouting to Dave Wilder to lack of a presence in countries like Venezuela, and so on. There's only so much Kenny can do. --Certain teams DO have to trade vets for prospects. This includes small and mid market teams and teams without a lot of payroll flexibility. The Sox fit into the second category right now because of the Rios and Peavy pickups. They can make those moves work for them but if they want to maintain payroll or, god forbid, have to trim payroll because of poor attendance, they are going to have to do something. That means trading vets, or non tendering underachievers and replacing them with average guys. This team doesn't need average players, they need good players, but they don't have the money to sign them nor the minor league talent to trade for them. Trading vets for more possible pieces, at least, makes a lot of sense for this team. Otherwise they are getting into Astros country.-- Possible pieces are pieces we have to play - and suck with - while we figure out whether or not we want to keep playing them. Sox fans were thrilled in 2005 because we brought in a bunch of veterans to replace all those "possible pieces" we had been sucking with in the past. Good God were fans excited to see Ben Davis and Willie Harris replaced! These possible pieces usually suck pretty hard. Astros territory? Dude, look at our f***ing pitching staff. Seriously, look at it. Just do that. It's sick. If there's any possible way to get to the playoffs we could run the f***ing table. Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks in a row with Big Balls Freddy Garcia in the bullpen as insurance? Have you seen the kind of dogs*** other teams run out there in the playoffs? Kenny needs to get off his ass and get a bat. Then we'll see what happens. IMO we need to try to win because that's the best cure, winning. Blowing up the ship and losing just makes it tougher to win. And as for the money part of it, I mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread, but the Sox were bulls***ting all the way. They had the money to fix the offense but they listened to Ozzie's moronic opinions and opted against it, and now they're going to cry poor? f*** them.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:47 PM) I'll bet you a million dollars that Flowers can put up a better OBP and OPS than A.J. (minus batting average) Which shouldn't be hard since you owe me about 20 million anyways over the years. In fact.. in a brief stint last year Flowers in 16 ABs had 3 BBs (.350 OBP) A.J. only has 6 BBs in 110 ABs this season. A.J. is a solid player and his I.Q is next to none, but if Flowers can't put up a .284-.325-.424-.749 numbers in a season (which are A.J.'s career numbers), then he should be a bust. You ain't my f***in pimp you expletively expletivie expletive!!!!! I owe you money?!?! Put down the crack pipe. As far as OPS, I'll take whatever your bet is. Putting up that line in the Major Leagues isn't some walk in the park. By good I mean a good starting catcher. And IMO the odds are against Tyroid. BTW I don't know why you always think I'm wrong and you're right, you're always the one who is wrong. You're more wrong than Hawk in a thong and this is going to prove it. But you won't remember. After Flowers busts you'll be talking about how you were right a year from now.

QUOTE (daggins @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:28 PM) It's true that prospects fail often but the idea that you should trade them while their "value is high" is pretty ludicrous. Please explain, because this doesn't make sense to me at all. Why is it wrong to trade an unproven commodity at high value? QUOTE (daggins @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:28 PM) What would you expect in return for him, or a package based around him, anyways? A proven MLB player. QUOTE (daggins @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:28 PM) If it is obvious to you that he is going to fail, don't you think it might have occurred to 29 General Managers of the MLB as well? Well, lots of things occur in the minds of the 30 GMs in baseball. However, things like market size and payroll play big parts in what becomes reality. Lots of teams *have* to deal with unproven players, hoping they turn out, simply because they cannot afford to pay the proven ones. That's why, when you're a team like the Sox and you can afford to pay the proven players, you do so. Trade the guys who likely will not pan out for players who already have. It's what Kenny Williams has done his entire career and it's why people in our organization have rings. QUOTE (daggins @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:28 PM) The fact that you still think they would give up worthwhile players in return for a guy who could bust just indicates why we shouldnt deal him - he might bust, but if he doesn't he provides a boatload of cheap talent for 6 years. Certain teams simply feel like they *have* to trade productive veteran players for cost concerns. In return they ask for prospects, hoping that at least one of the prospects will turn out. This usually doesn't work out all that well, and moves like the Bartolo-to-Montreal and Tex-to-Atlanta deals are the rare exceptions, not the rules. Kenny should shop Flowers, D2, all these guys, and look to get proven pieces that will help now and in the future. As far as what is out there we can only speculate at this point. Edit: for your last sentence, consider the following names: Abbott, Liefer, Johnson, Anderson, Fields, Rauch, Webster, Borchard, Reed, Young.... and it just goes on. Just because a player *could* do something doesn't mean you should bet on him doing it. Kenny hasn't exactly gotten his ass kicked in trades over the years.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:20 PM) Trust me. i love, A.J, and it'll be a sad day in White Sox land when he's no longer on this team. I love A.J. even more (shockingly) then i love Nix. I don't think Nix needs to have a huge part on this ballclub, i just think he should have Omar Vizquel's part on this ballclub. Okay, I am 100000000% with you on this. Sorry T-Bolt.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 17, 2010 -> 11:11 PM) What has gotten into you tonight, man? I wrote a skit about how A.J. doesn't take pitches, which he doesn't, I used Nix because he being in the doghouse is a running joke on this board. I wasn't making some sort of sweeping statement about the state this team and the people on it; I was going for a quick laugh. Okay, sorry then. But you still love Nix though, and he still does suck. BTW why would Nix being in the doghouse be a joke? Nix sucks and therefore he belongs in the doghouse anyway. I mean who in their right mind would start him more than 1 day per week? That's lunacy. Nix is here because Lillibridge didn't turn out to be what KW thought he was.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 17, 2010 -> 10:59 PM) Really? You really feel like given the wealth of information that we have on Tyler Flowers at the major league level that you can defend this claim? Look at what Flowers does well and look at what he doesn't do well. Then consider the odds, and consider how many great prospects fail all the time, especially at the catching position. You ask me to defend my claim, and I'm just making a prediction. You can look at our own track record if you like. If you think Flowers will end up a good MLB player then you are the one going out on a limb. We'll see in time, but personally I hope we trade him while his value is still high.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ May 15, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) Picks for tonight. Rogers Arlovski Jacare Gracie Britt Wow. I picked all the same fighters as you.