Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 2, 2010 -> 03:54 PM) I don't think it's the players people are worried about, as much as the money required to keep the guy here long-term. The young players only become an issue inasmuch as you must rely on them more if you do ink Gonzo to a huge trade because you then have 3 players eating 50% of your payroll. Creating a competitive team with the remaining 22 roster spots requires a few young productive players, of which we may not have many left after what it will cost in personnel to acquire Gonzo. I see the idea here, but Adrian isn't just some guy who is one of 25 players on the team. He is basically *the* team, the sole true offensive superstar who the entire lineup is built around. Signing Adrian means we need to find bargains elsewhere on offense, which shouldn't be a huge issue, especially given what straight-up DH's are going for these days. We can fill out a team around a star like that as long as we don't keep picking up more Linebrinks and Teahens and Pierres, and instead look to fill those holes with bargain vets or young pre-arb players. BTW, just think about what Gonzalez does for this offense. He single-handedly changes everything because he essentially takes Pierre out and puts him on the bench where he belongs. R Rios CF R Beckham 2B L Gonzalez 1B R Konerko DH R Jones RF R Quentin LF L Pierzynski C R Ramirez SS L Teahen 3B Look at that lineup and, once AJ and Beckham get back to normal, suddenly the black hole of suck all but disappears.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 2, 2010 -> 03:37 PM) It will be interesting to see if the Howard contract scares away some potential suitors, at least potential suitors who have the intention of signing AGon for the long term, as it becomes evident the market may support a $25m+ annual salary for him. While I'd love to have a player of his caliber, many of you have pointed out (in my view very accurately) that the production above what a league average 1b provides simply isn't worth taking on that kind of contract. Howard's contract shouldn't scare off anyone. That was a bad, bad deal for the Phillies who paid a price that nobody else could have afforded. I mean, the Yankees have Tex. The Angels have Kendry. The Dodgers can't buy anyone given the ownership situation. The Cubs are going to be paying off bad deals for the next several years. Who is left? The Red Sox? Why in the hell would they bid against themselves? They may spend a lot of money, but they're not stupid, because in an AGon-Howard-Prince-Pujols FA market, guess who ranks No. 4?

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ May 2, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) And I don't think they should either. As it was pointed out in this thread, 1B is one of the easiest positions in MLB, in relative terms, to get relatively inexpensive production. Crippling the payroll with such a huge contract probably isn't the best way to go. On top of that, you have to trade just about literally ALL your useful young talent just for the opportunity to negotiate with Gonzalez (plus 1.5 years, obviously). ...And the Sox, at this point, aren't one bat away from catching the Twins anyway. No thanks. I'd rather see KW get creative somewhere else. 1B isn't easy to fill with a monster like Gonzalez, no position is. That's like saying that since SS is a harder position to fill with offensive talent, a player like Elvis Andrus is more important than someone like Prince Fielder. This logic is so faulty it's insane, yet people constantly repeat it over and over regarding Gonzalez. Agree that crippling the payroll is a bad thing, but let's spend our money on good players first and then see what happens. There was nothing wrong with the Rios claim because he has legitimate, 5-tool, All-Star type ability. There was nothing wrong with picking up Peavy for table scraps because, although he is struggling, he has been one of the best SP in baseball during his career, and he is young. Wasting money however on Mark Teahen and Juan Pierre - guaranteeing them money for no f***ing reason when they haven't proven s*** - is extremely hurtful. Imagine if we'd taken that extra cash and, if nothing else, added it an extension offer for Danks or Q, who actually have proven themselves here. But the point is, giving out a fat deal to Gonzalez presents a much smaller risk IMO, because the quality of player is so far superior it is not even funny. If Gonzalez were extended by us at a huge cost, then as long as we didn't give him a big NTC that kept him away from the big money teams, we'd still be able to dump his contract is we had to. OTOH, nobody is going to want that garbage Pierre and Teahen. Young talent makes people here stupid. It's one thing to make a s***ty trade and give up a young player for very little in return, and it's yet another to overrate the s*** out of everybody and start pulling back names when a franchise piece like Adrian Gonzalez is on the table. Everyone we have can go. I'll bet everything in this world that nobody in our entire system at any level, nor anybody who will be in our system for the next 5 years, will ever become as productive an offensive force as Adrian Gonzalez is right now. And as far as the pitching goes, lol. Yeah, right. Since when did we develop pitching?

Danks said way back that he thought very long and hard about taking the Floyd deal but then decided to listen to his agent and pass. Danks has gone on record saying he wants to be here, but it sounds like the Sox are low-balling him. Danks only has two arb years left, so IMO it'll take something like this to get him locked in: 2011: $6.5M 2012: $8.5M 2013: $10M (first FA year) 2014: $12M TO, $2M buyout (second FA year) Danks, just by breathing, is going to pretty much guarantee himself $7-8M in arb next year, so if we want a discount on his next two arb years then we need to guarantee him some good money. Something like that above guarantees him $27M and that guarantee might be enough to get him to gamble away an extra several million in arb and potentially quite a bit more than that in two free agent years.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 09:02 PM) If found guilty of domestic abuse, should this end the career of Tito Ortiz in the UFC? I think it should. It sounds like something big already went down between Tito and the UFC even before this. There was an interview I saw where Chuck said something to the effect of, "If (Tito) wants to come back to the UFC and fight me he can..." Maybe Tito is still with the company, but it sounds like he's already in some kind of dispute or something. Which of course isn't surprising, considering it's Tito.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Apr 25, 2010 -> 04:13 PM) Go out of your way to see a replay of the Garcia/Korean Zombie match that was on the prelim card on Spike last night The greatest MMA event in the year and there's only one post about it in here. That fight BTW had me f***ing cheering. That's why it's great to be an MMA fan.

Didn't Anthony Johnson beat up his girlfriend? Double standard, but of course there has to be. Tito is the big name. Somehow I doubt much of anything happened though. They're both f***ing attention whore drama queens who can't bother to put down the mirror unless it's to whore themselves on Twitter. Tito probably called Jenna a b**** and slapped her hand and then Jenna acted like a c*** about it. All I know is that somewhere Mark Coleman is laughing.

Awesome post and thanks for the videos.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 06:12 PM) 1) Dayton Moore isn's as smart as most think. The Royals basically gave up on De La Rosa too quickly. Not the first organization to do so, however. He's had a lot of chances, that's for sure. 2) Liriano is close to being back, which is quite normal 2-3 seasons after TJ surgery. Usually the 2nd. I think he's held back because the slider was a big hang up for him, letting it lose with 100% torque and as often as he did in 2006. 3) Aaron Poreda was successfully overhyped and marketed by Harrelson and KW, our second version of Royce Ring in a generation. I really doubt anyone who matters actually listens to these people. Poreda IMO was only overhyped by those who thought he was a top-end starter, but if he becomes the next Thornton then that's not too shabby, especially when you consider how badly the Pads needed to move Peavy's contract and how little leverage they had in that situation. There are 29 other teams in baseball that would love to have Poreda on the farm right now.

The time to get rid of Jenks was during the offseason when we could have used those funds elsewhere. Now that he's here and we can't spread that money around anymore, it's retarded to think about further weakening our baseball team. If anything, we need to *add* to the bullpen. We have to be counting on an occasionally painful learning curve for Santos, overall ineffectiveness from Williams, a garbage Linebrink in the 2nd half, and DL time here and there for Jenks and Putz. We should be in shopping mode right now.

Rios is Walker's project, and so far Rios looks great despite the low batting average. Quentin and Paulie are also looking good. That's all that's important. Jones is a pipedream, Kotsay is a bench player, Alexei sucks in April, and Juan Pierre and Mark Teahen are both turds who along with Linebrink will hamstring the Sox in the payroll department for the next 2-3 years. There's nothing Walker can do about any of these guys. Get the man some f***ing talent and then judge him.

The Rios money could have been used on a lot of things, but Rios was one of Kenny's longtime targets and I highly doubt Kenny is regretting that because he could have gotten so-and-so. If Rios were still out there Kenny would still be trying to get him. The biggest money eater here is Linebrink. Rios is very, very capable of performing up to or beyond his level of pay whereas Linebrink is waaaay below it with no hopes of reaching it. Konerko is of course way underperforming his salary also. But the Paulie deal had to be done, even if in the end it turns out that in 4 of the 5 years he signed for he didn't meet the value of his deal. So I guess the point I'm making is that if we're looking at things in hindsight and questioning what could have gone where, I wouldn't be pointing at Rios. For about 1 1/5 terrible months, this guy gets just as much s*** as the Erstad/BA/Owens/Mackowiack/Terrero/Wise/Pods CF monster did, but if you took all those players and added up their talents and then multiplied them by Aaron Rowand you still wouldn't get a player as talented as Rios. Let's just please give this s*** a rest and let him prove himself already.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 02:27 PM) I don't think Oney has any effect with the on field performance. His tweets mean crap, but its just an immature kid who has had everything handed to him in life feeling entitled again. Here's a guy who went 11-96 in rookie ball with 25 k's and he got promoted, yet he has the nerve to pop off about the organization who promoted him and about other players' performance or lack thereof. Its amazing. Another thing to keep in mind is if the Sox let Oney pop off about everything on Twitter whats going to stop any of the rest of the White Sox employees from blasting the organization every time they feel like it publicly? I know Ranger probably really couldn't be straight about it if he really knew, and if he asked, he probably wouldn't be given straight answers, but I would bet there have been more than a couple of players who have passed through the White Sox during Ozzie's time that aren't exactly thrilled his grown sons are front and center for a lot of things, like in the dugout, in the clubhouse, with the team on the road. If Oney is this great baseball mind, let him prove it with some hard work. I don't think he has the work ethic that will lead to any kind of success in baseball from a front office position. He wants to be the male Kim Kardasian. I've always thought the same thing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) Finding an adequate OF is a lot easier than finding a front line starter, no matter how good your rotation currently is. If as KW said, the White Sox would have had the best rotation of all time, I think that's more preferrable than Rios in the OF and the current rotation, even though it looks pretty, pretty good, especially if the plan is not to use Rios in CF full time. Ok, so I read that Halladay didn't come here because Halladay did not want to play for the Sox. We weren't on his list. Is that wrong? And if money was really the issue, then how do you know that? And how do you know Rios' contract played even the slightest itsy witsy bitsy role in the money discussions? Perhaps the problem was more along the lines of Jerry not wanting to have about nine gazillion dollars locked up in pitchers? JR was quoted as saying that ideally all pitchers would be on 1-year-deals. I bet if I could go back in time one year and post a thread in this forum asking people to vote on whether or not JR would take on Peavy's deal if it could be done, I bet the overwhelming majority of people here would have said hell no. And BTW for all we know Kenny was talking about Felix Hernandez. Or Dan Haren. Or Cliff Lee. Or someone else. Kenny said something like us having "maybe the best 5-man rotation ever" and then Garfien went on about Halladay and ran with it. None of us know what went on.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:49 PM) Morel plays a LOT better Defense. And as far as Teahen knowing what he is doing, so far this spring, I would say the opposite is true. You are right, maybe Morel wouldn't do much better offensively, but his defense and fact that he won't be making $3M a year makes me hope that Teahen will be eventually usurped. Even if Morel turns out to be a lot better - and does anyone really know this? - then the offensive adjustment is going to be so hard that at best it will negate any defensive improvements. And I'd still doubt the better defense stuff too, I mean he's playing MiLB ball right now and learning the MLB fields and MLB game speed is going to take time even if he is pretty good in the minors. I'm with you on Teahen though. I don't like the trade and I didn't like the trade when we made it. I think Chris Getz will turn out to be the best player in that deal, I think Teahen was on his way to being non-tendered, and I think the extension was a very poor move by the Sox and that the Sox should have at the very least made the third year a team option with a small buyout. I hope I'm wrong and Teahen does very well, but I'm not counting on it. If we do want to replace him at some point though, I just hope we don't call on someone like Morel. Go out and get a guy who is definitely going to be better.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:26 PM) No, not really. When you're given a $70M contract it doesn't really matter how it's structured, you're expected to produce at the level of player who's worthy of such a lucrative extension. So you give a guy a huge extension that's mostly backloaded and because of this your expectations are backloaded as well? That's ridiculous. I really only care about that first line as the rest of your post applies to me in no way, the only thing I'm arguing is the contention that Rios only had 2 bad months last year and what qualifies as "bad", "awful" or "subpar". If the idea is dollar-for-dollar production then it does matter how the contract is structured, because you can't pretend like you're paying him $12M per to struggle when he's only getting a pro-rated $5.9M. You're referring to a caliber of player by mentioning future money owed but then saying the money isn't really the issue. If you just want to discuss the caliber of player only, then no, Rios did not play like an All-Star last year - but as a CF, his numbers in 2007, 2008, and 2009 here would put him right at that level. Also Rios' deal isn't "backloaded." It looks just like any other deal where a young talented player signs away his arbitration years after performing extremely well in the Majors. The length is there because back when Rios signed that deal he was signing for well below what would have been his expected market value as a FA, so in order to get what they thought would turn out to be a sweetheart deal, they had to commit a lot of years. There's nothing too out out of the ordinary with Rios' contract. Go look at the deal Robinson Cano signed way back when, just off the top of my head, and imagine what fans would be saying about him had he hit .249/.296/.395/.691 last year. Rios had 2 terrible months for *us* last year, and isn't that all that matters? And why is it bad he played s***ty in Toronto? It's absolutely fantastic that Rios performed like he did in Toronto, because had he not done that we either wouldn't have been able to acquire him at all, or we'd have had to forfeit a couple some damn good prospects instead of claiming him for nothing. This deal is going to make Kenny Williams look even more like a genius.

Going with Jones by GNP TKO Round 2, Cigano by KO round 2, Buentello by UD, Irvin by UD.

It might sound crazy but it's not confusing. You have 2 divisions, East and West, like before. The #1 seed in each division has a best-of-7 series where the winner goes to the ALCS. 4 other teams go through a single-elimination tournament to decide the second ALCS team, and this tourney takes the same amount of time as the first series, so the playoffs aren't being dragged out. The whole idea of realignment would be to bring more revenue and competition, but especially revenue, to the game of baseball without killing off the good parts. Maybe my plan sucks, but, 1) the old system will never come back because too much money is made off it now, and 2) interleague play will probably stick around for quite some time because too much money is made off it now.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 12:40 PM) It was mostly tongue-and-cheek. But not totally because I really do want to see Morel come up at some point if Teahen continues to suck. Morel's upside isn't all that high, in fact I don't really think it's much higher than what Teahen is already doing right now. Maybe Morel can steal a few more bases and play 3B a little better, but when you factor in the learning curve? Hell no. Morel would be giving away AB like there's no tomorrow. At least Teahen is a vet who knows what he's doing.

BTW there's no reason to freak out about Teahen either. He'll probably give us exactly what his career numbers seem to suggest, which is an average player at best, and probably someone we'll be wanting to upgrade over as soon as this July.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 11:44 AM) Semantics. You see a .670 OPS from a 28 year old $70M, 3 hole hitter as "subpar" while in my world .750 would be subpar. Yeah, and Rios was making $5.9M last year so you're overstating this just a tad, aren't you? Rios doesn't get expensive until this year ($9.7M - and BTW Mike Cameron got $7.25M per for 2 years, so maybe Rios really isn't all that expensive) and then in 2011 Rios starts making $12M per. And given Rios' talent level and career overall, I have no idea why last season should be so damning. Also, isn't this thread about Mark Teahen? You know, the bench player we gave 3 guaranteed years to in order to be our starter? You know, the guy who, unlike Rios, has outside of one season never shown much of anything at all, and who is much weaker at his defensive position, and who is far less offensively capable, and also plays a position where offense is a greater priority? I'd be much more worried about the career .749 mediocre defensive 3B than the .775 career strong defensive CF, especially when in 3 of that CF'ers 6 seasons he has posted an OPS of about .800 or above (.798, .852, .865) while that 3B has only done that once in 5 seasons (.874) and it looks like a fluke considering his next highest total is .763, which is 111 points lower.

Oh, and then Mir vs. Carwin is gonna have me pumped too. We saw how GG rocked Carwin and almost put him out, and if Carwin is dumb enough to stand in front of Mir instead of using his wrestling to try and Lesnar him, then Carwin really could get cracked. In fact, I think he will, I think he'll lose that fight if he decides to just stand there and bang. And then the Alves-Fitch thing... I love how these guys have all the confidence in the world now, and they both had their shots at GSP, and now they want to prove they deserve another crack. And I think both of them know whoever wins that fight is the clear #2 in the world, and they both want to kill each other to prove it. That could really be awesome given how much better Alves has gotten since the first fight. But I'm picking Fitch there.

Yeah MMA is on FIRE these next couple weeks. And after all this Aldo-Faber will be right there around the corner, like a week away or something. It's f***ing nuts. BTW is anyone picking Vera tonight? I think Bones wrecks him. I'm excited about Buentello-Kongo too, that could get awesome quick, and don't blink for GG-Cigano. There may not be a PPV headerliner-type name on this card, but I personally think it is a LOT more interesting and exciting and relevant than some of the PPV cards the UFC has put on the last 6 months or so. I feel the same way about that UFN. Florian-Gomi is such an intriguing matchup. I'm a huge Kenny Florian fan, I just love that guy's skill and work ethic, and at the same time I'd love to see Gomi get back into shape and climb the ladder again, and if anyone is going to motivate Gomi it has to be Kenny. I mean if you beat Kenny there's pretty much no argument that you deserve a shot at BJ. And then that Struve-Nelson fight is badass too. Nelson actually looks like he's evolving a bit, and Struve is exciting as hell, another terrific HW prospect. Can't wait for that one. MMA f***ing rules.

Okay, I spent a while thinking about this, and taking everything into consideration, I've come up with the best plan I can possibly think of. And after typing this, I really think MLB needs to follow my plan because it's great. Here's my plan... 1. Scheduling format: -Add 2 teams to the AL -Create 4 8-team divisions: AL East, AL West, NL East, NL West -Each team plays it's same-division rival 12 times: 2 3-game home sets, 2 3-game road sets (84 games) -Each team plays its same-league, non-divisional opponent 4 times: 1 2-game road set, 1 2-game home set (32 games) -Each team has 2 opposite-league, same-division rival opponents - i.e. 1 AL East team vs. 2 NL East rival teams -Each team plays it's opposite-league, same-division rival opponent 6 times: 1 home 3-game set, 1 road 3-game set (12 games) -Each team plays it's opposite-league, same-division, non-rival opponent 3 times, with home/road alternating each season (18 games) -Each team plays it's opposite-league, opposite-division team 1 2-game set, with home/road alternating each season (16 games) -Total = 162 games: 81 home, 81 road From a Sox perspective, we get 6 games vs. the Cubs and 6 games vs. the Brewers each year, which is great for us. From a Yankees/Red Sox perspective, they lose 6 rivalry games per year, but they also increase their interleague rivalry potential and they actually *increase* the amount of interdivisional games they play by 12. So they also can potentially deepen rivalries with another 3 teams, and what if the Sox are one of those new teams in their division? Picking up games against the Sox that are lost to the O's and Rays isn't going to hurt them. So the Yankees and Red Sox IMO don't necessarily lose here, especially if they each pick up the Phillies and Mets as rival teams, meaning 6 guaranteed lucrative home games against NL opponents. Those 3 home games each team would lose against each other would be made up pretty quickly IMO. 2. Playoff format: -The top 3 teams per division based on record make the playoffs. 1-game playoffs still are in effect in the event of a tie. -No. 1 East seed faces the No. 1 West seed in a first round 7-game series. The winner goes to the ALCS with home field advantage. -A 2-stage lightning round is created, and this goes on *at the same time* that the showcase #1 seed series is going on. The No. 2 East seed faces No. 3 East seed, and the No. 2 West seed faces the No. 3 West seed, each in a best-of-3 series. Games 1 and 2 are played in the stadium whose team has home field advantage, so the No. 3 seeds need to win on the road in order to force a home game. After the first stage winners are decided, the East Winner immediately meets the West Winner for a best-of-5 series. Home field advantage in the lightning round finals are decided by overall division record. The stronger division gets the HFA. Here's a sample playoff schedule to illustrate what I'm talking about: Day 01: All 1-game playoffs happen (if applicable) Day 02: off day--------------------------No. 2 East vs. No. 3 East---------------------No. 2 West vs. No. 3 West Day 03: No. 1 East vs. No. 1 West-----No. 2 East vs. No. 3 East (day game)-------No. 2 West vs. No. 3 West (day game) Day 04: No. 1 East vs. No. 1 West-----No. 2 East @ No. 3 East----------------------No. 2 West @ No. 3 West Day 05: off day -------------------------off day-----------------------------------------off day Day 06: No. 1 East @ No. 1 West------East Winner vs. West Winner (day game) Day 07: No. 1 East @ No. 1 West------East Winner vs. West Winner (day game) Day 08: No. 1 East @ No. 1 West------East Winner @ West Winner (night game) Day 09: off day -------------------------East Winner @ West Winner (night game) Day 10: No. 1 East vs. No. 1 West-----off day Day 11: off day -------------------------East Winner vs. West Winner (day game) Day 12: ALCS and NLCS begins, with the No. 1 seed series winner getting HFA regardless Day X: World Series begins as normal Now all teams have a more equal shot at the playoffs, since even with the Yankees and Red Sox in the same division there are still 6 other teams and 3 playoff spots available in that division. So a good #3 team can fight its way into the picture by beating up on bad divisional teams without having to face the Yankees and Red Sox so much. Also there's more playoff games, so there's more playoff revenue to go around without undermining and NBAing the whole playoff concept. The #1 vs. #2 series right out of the gate gives the matchups that most fans already want to see, and meanwhile the lightning round happens quickly and creates a hot team with underdog interest, and by forcing that team to win 2 series' to make the LCS, it legitimizes that team's position. Seeding becomes extremely important and goes way beyond the typical home field advantage, as the #1 teams only have to play 1 long series before making the LCS, and they get their rest in the process, while the #2 and #3 seeds have to fight like hell with little rest and win 2 short series to even get in. So there's my plan. Thoughts?

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Mar 16, 2010 -> 10:51 PM) Aleks Emelianenko. Dude is practically Russian mafia. He probably could take care of himself on the streets. Great answer. Aleks would fit right in having already done his time in nasty Russian prisons and having all those tats. From Wikipedia: