Kenny Hates Prospects

Kouz has been mentioned here too, but I think Alex Gonzalez would cost less still. Kouz would be the much better option going forward though because then you keep him until you find someone better, and maybe he becomes our new Crede. But Beane may not want to get rid of him for what we'd be willing to offer since he's trying to build something over there, and Uribe, who has also been mentioned here, isn't going anywhere either because he's not someone you overpay for. So Gonzalez is just a name I thought of since the Jays don't have a chance with the Rays, Yanks, and Red Sox in front of them.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:57 AM) Rios went 3 for 12 against three pretty mediocre Pittsburgh pitchers, including an 0-4 against an 0-5, 5.22 pitcher. LOL "Rios hit .250 against 3 particular MLB pitchers and then had an 0-fer once." Bill Braski was really struggling, huh?

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:19 AM) This is good?? The OBP is good, the other stuff isn't. But if that's the guy's floor then he's still better than Pierre. But like I said, just 2.5 seasons playing for the Cubs may not tell the whole story. Fukudome is a guy I'd go after because of what he can do on the baseball field, not because of his numbers. It would be a bad contract swap, nothing more. Ideally we'd have none of these players and their contracts on our roster. QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:19 AM) I don't know if I agree with this either. I don't think he'd be light years better than Pierre. I know Pierre has been bad, but he has actually started to show a little life. And I love that he's a base stealing threat (Fukodome isn't that much of one). Pierre gives provides distractions to opposing pitchers whenever he gets on base. Plus, Fukudome would probably go through a bad bad adjustment period moving form the NL to the AL. No thanks. Pierre's game IMO is not suited for the AL, especially in this ballpark. Maybe he'd work a lot better in Seattle or Detroit, or on the turf in Toronto, etc. But here is just a bad place for his game. He doesn't walk, he doesn't hit for power, he's just not made for this team. Fukudome OTOH offers upside, and adjustment period or not, I think he'll still be a better player here offensively - much, much better. And defensively he makes us better, too. QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:19 AM) I thought he TURNED DOWN more money from the White Sox to play on the North Side when he was a free agent coming from Japan. Was this true? I don't know about the more money part, but he did turn us down to be the first Japanese Cubs player. I'm very glad he turned us down, and that deal is horrible, but since we're already stuck paying $10.5M to the last guy in the pen and a pinch runner/defensive replacement next year, I'd much rather trade that for Fukudome and his $13.5M. He's one of the few guys we may actually be able to pick up with our bad deals.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:34 AM) I said this at the beginning of this year and its showed not to be a dumb statement, I love Omar in the 2 hole and wish he could stay there the rest of the way. If Dayans/Morels not ready id actually prefer Omar over Teahen (with the way mark was swinging the bat this year). When does Mark come back??? if its before the deadline any chance we see him dealt? Nobody will ever want Mark Teahen again. He's ours unless we eat a bunch of cash or throw in some kind of player sweetener, or else take on an equal or worse contract.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:31 AM) But at this point, you'd be buying high on him, no matter what everybody really thinks of him. The home run numbers and the slugging% talk for themselves. Agree again, but I still don't think buying high on Alex Gonzalez costs a bunch. Imagine what our return for Freddy Garcia would be and then maybe even subtract some. That's what I think he'd cost.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:24 AM) He's also 22 for 39 career in SB attempts, 10 for 23 the last year and a half. There is way more to a leadoff hitter than OBP. He was supposed to be a middle of the order hitter, but his power didn't carry over from Japan. He's now an OK #2 hitter, but thats about it. I'd personally much rather hold on to Pierre, DFA Linebrink to make room for Hudson, and save the extra $3 million instead of going after Kosuke. Plus, why would Cubs do this just to save that money? They already had Pierre once, hated him. They need to get rid of an old OF with the crowd they have out there, not swap one out for another. And Linebrink is not a decent SU man, he's bad, as you stated in your first paragraph. I really don't care all that much about Fukudome's stealing % as Pierre's. Fukudome doesn't have to be that good in that department since his game is more about getting on base. Pierre however has to be very good there or else he's really worth nothing at all. The Cubs need a spot for Colvin, that's really it. They can't unload Soriano and they're not taking Byrd out of the lineup, so saving money and getting a Clevelan Santeliz-type prospect in return while potentially helping the bullpen isn't going to be a bad thing for them.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:19 AM) If the Cubs eat Fukudome's contract, I'd definitely take him on this team. And absolutely no to Alex Gonzalez. This year's nothing but a fluke. He'd be just like everybody else on this team, bad at hitting and getting on base. The power you're seeing from him isn't going to last. And I agree on your last two points. I agree 100% on Alex Gonzalez, which is why I'd like to have him. Everyone in baseball (at least I imagine) knows this is a one year thing, and that combined with his impending FA should make him cheap. MIF and good 3B are expensive, so with Alex Gonzalez we'd be paying for the always undervalued defensive aspect primarily. We'd pretty much get him to do for us what Uribe did for us in 2008 and what Uribe has done for the Giants since. I'd rather make a short-term move for a solid player without surrendering much than go after a top name, especially with Teahen's contract still on the books and Morel not too far away. Edit: This move is nothing but insurance on Vizquel and protection from rookie Viciedo's defense. Anything we win this year will be won on pitching and defense, so Gonzalez helps there. The power (which has always been there although his surge isn't going to last) just helps make the 3B position a bit more respectable, that's all. We'd still be a below-average offensive club at 3B.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:41 AM) Instead of having 2 bad contracts (Pierre/Linebrink) at $10.5 million, you would rather have one awful contract at $13.5 million??? I'd rather save the money or take a chance on an extra OF at $3 million or so. Fukudome is extremely overpaid and is nothing more than an average player. You also called him a legitimate leadoff hitter. If that was the case, why have the Cubs only hit him leadoff 68 times in 2.5 seasons? This year in 19 games in that spot he has a .194/.298/.278 line. No, see you've got it wrong. Pierre and Linebrink are both worse because they're replaceable by minimum salary bench players and relievers. The amount they are paid above the minimum is frightening. Fukudome is grossly overpaid BUT he has a lot more ability than Juan Pierre ever has had or ever will have. Just the fact that he can play RF plus take a walk and hit for a little power puts him light years above Pierre who is just speed and range in the OF. And as for Linebrink - think about this: the Sox were afraid to give what probably would have amounted to another $1-$1.5M to DJ Carrasco who had been the best LR in baseball while he was here. Now Linebrink is making a combined $10.5M in 2010-11 to do a worse job than Carrasco could have done for what is basically chicken feed in terms of baseball salaries. How valuable is that? If Fukudome were a FA right now, and it was December, he wouldn't be looking at $26.5M over 2 years, but he'd probably could get $10M over two given his defense, left-handedness, and OBP-based offensive upside. Pierre and Linebrink each OTOH would be lucky to get $2M guaranteed a piece. I have no idea why the Cubs have not him lead-off. I'm not Lou Pinella. However, his overall numbers are very good for a lead-off hitter. And career-wise, his OBP is good enough for a lead-off hitter. QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:42 AM) Yeah but hasn't he been on a slump lately - which is signs that his average will sink back down to around .258? His numbers are boosted by a great April and May and he's come down a lot since. He's also a career .270/.374/.422 hitter in the first half while just a career .246/.355/.381 hitter in the second. The thing is though, his career is only coming up on 2.5 seasons in the Major Leagues. However, just look at what he brings to the table in terms of baseball skills in comparison to Pierre. If nothing else, Fukudome's game should translate much better to the AL than Juan Pierre's ever will. Fukudome - worst case scenario here - is at least a better player here than Pierre. I think he may be a change of scenery guy also. Maybe playing for Ozzie will work as well for him as it did for Iguchi and Shingo, who both did some very good things in the short time they were here. But anyway, the cost of this move would basically be swapping Pierre with Fukudome (big improvement all around) and swapping Linebrink with Hudson (another big improvement) for about an extra $1-2M or so maybe this year (haven't checked but it wouldn't be much) plus another $3M next year. I think that would be a fantastic move actually, because it would be safe move as far as Fukudome being a better American League bet than Pierre, and it would also offer us the biggest potential payoff. The upside for the Cubs would just be a decent SU man and a nice bench player, but for us it's a very good all-around starting OF. Yeah, if I can I make this move yesterday.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:23 AM) Try starting with why on Earth we would want Fukindone... Because he's a left-handed, strong defensive RF who is currently hitting .281/.370/.449 which is much better than anyone on our team right now not named Konerko or Rios, and also because the Cubs will have to eat salary and move him for nothing, and furthermore it allows us to dump 2 bad contracts that extend beyond the year while improving the ballclub. Sounds like a great idea to me.

In, because tanking in fear of the 2010 Minnesota Twins and in anticipation of the great Tyroid McStrikeout's future MLB performance is a pretty stupid idea. Plus, we're playing good baseball (pitching, defense, timely hitting) AND we've lately been doing it off of ome very good young arms who would normally slaughter us.

IMO: 1. Trade Pierre + Linebrink + prospects for Fukudome. Pierre makes a prorated $3M this year + $5M next year, Linebrink makes a prorated $5M this year + $5.5M in 2011, and Fukudome makes a prorated $13M this year and $13.5M next year. The Cubs save a bit of money this year, they save $3M next year, and they'd get some prospects plus a spot for Colvin. For us, we get Fukudome at a very good contract value ($3M above what we're flushing down the toilet in 2011 for Pierre and Linebrink), we improve our OBP and defense while adding a lefty bat and getting a legitimate lead-off hitter, and we get to screw the Cubs too. Great move. 2. Trade prospects for Alex Gonzalez of Toronto. Alex is a natural SS but we could use him at 3B. He'll give us great defense where we need it without having to take on a lot of salary or surrender a ton of prospects, and along with Vizquel he should turn our backup SS/everyday 3B situation into a positive. Alex doesn't add much for OBP but he does have pop so that would make the 3B position be a bit more respectable offensively. 3. Deal prospects for Adam LaRoche. He was traded for pretty much nothing in the past, but he's a very underrated player who performs well in the second half, and in terms of prospects he should come cheap. IMO he could be just as good as Luke Scott in the second half, if not better, but for half the price or less. The DBacks should eat some salary. 4. Release Williams and call up Threets temporarily until Sale is ready. Call up Hudson to replace Linebrink in the bullpen. Make a decision between Jones and Viciedo as the RH pinch hitter. If it's Viciedo then we don't have a backup CF meaning Kotsay would have to play there if Rios gets the day off. So Ozzie wouldn't want to give Alex a bunch of days off, and when he did they'd have to be at home and not at, say, Comerica. Lineup: L Fukudome RF R Gonzalez 3B R Rios CF R Konerko 1B L LaRoche DH R Quentin LF L Pierzynski C R Beckham 2B R Ramirez SS Bench: Castro C Vizquel 2B/SS/3B Viciedo 1B/3B/DH/LF (try it out, why not?) - RH PH Kotsay OF - LH PH Pen: Jenks CL Putz SU Thornton SU Pena RSP Threets/Sale LSP Santos MR Hudson LR Much better team IMO, and we should be able to afford all these guys without draining the farm. **Edited contract info

I used to be on the fence with Walker but I don't even see the point anymore. Walker is fine, it's the players. The players just don't listen. If the Sox feel Walker is the best option then fine, keep him. If the Sox feel there is a better option, then fine, fire Walker and bring in someone else. I completely understand why fans would want Walker fired so as to hold someone accountable for the Sox s***ty offense, but I'm not going to root for the guy to get canned when it's pretty obvious the players are the ones at fault. Besides, it looks like Beckham may be coming around, Rios has been amazing, and the only person who can fix Carlos Quentin is Carlos Quentin.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 12:37 PM) I didn't like all the hugging and I thought Cro Cop absolutely schooled him. Berry knocked him down twice and decided to wait for him instead of finishing him? It was great for the public/tv but that's not how you win fights. CC looked a bit better but he still looked like a guy who would have gotten his ass kicked had Barry went in there like a killer. Barry probably regrets not following up a bit more, but in the end I think he'll benefit more for it. The show of respect towards CC won him a lot of fans and that could go a long way for him in the future, especially if he gets on a losing streak and has to fight outside of the UFC. Barry is never going to be a title contender so the win doesn't mean a whole lot. His upside is basically a HW Chris Lytle with no ground game.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 05:10 PM) Berry is kind of small to impact much at HW, he was a perfect matchup for Cro Cop, wanted to keep it standing, couldn't finish him and terrible ground game, being finished in the UFC with a RNC with no hooks or any bottom body control is really inexcusable... with that said, I hope the UFC keeps him around, he is a great guy to have on cards to match-up with other bangers. I agree he's small, but he's still better off as a HW. In the HW division there are a lot of guys like Rothwell, Yvel, Struve, Russow, Gonzaga, Kongo, etc. who will all want to stand for the most part, and even if one of those guys wants to get the takedown it shouldn't be a huge issue for a guy like Barry to improve to the point where he can keep it standing against those kinds of fighters. And those fighters aren't even the bottom of the HW ladder, either. There are a few guys the UFC has at HW that are a ton worse. But at LHW a guy like Barry is absolutely f***ed, because as soon as he's got his foot in the door he'll have to beat someone like Keith Jardine, Brandon Vera, Matt Hamill, Luiz Cane, etc. just to stick around. So in that regard I don't think his size is much of an issue, because he'll be able to hang with some of the name, main card UFC HWs as long as he keeps improving, and his style is enough to keep him around and make him some money.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 01:34 AM) ugh. I hope the UFC gives Shogun the time he needs to heal instead of giving another joke interim title fight to Evans and whoever. QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 05:12 PM) depending on how long he's out, I'm ok with interim titles, it gives a 5 round fight against two top contenders and it keeps the division moving I agree with both of you. The interim belt that GSP won beating Hughes was nice because you knew that the winner was the best WW in the world despite Serra holding the belt. The belt Nog beat Sylvia for obviously was necessary since Randy was out. The Mir-Carwin belt however was really stupid and useless since 1) there was no way that fight was going past the 3rd round, 2) the UFC already knew Brock would be back by the time the winner could fight, 3) there was and still is dispute about the legitimate #1 contender (Cigano? Cain?) in the same company, nevermind the rest of the world. The Mir-Carwin belt was a hype machine belt IMO and those are the ones I don't like.

Lots of dumb s*** about how the Franklin shot on Chuck wasn't powerful, etc. Chuck was rushing in, didn't see it, and Rich had his feet planted and delivered a strong, short shot that he could get his body into. People need to STFU. Chuck is probably done but that same shot under those same circumstances at least knocks down a bunch of guys. Great night of fights overall though. CC-Barry was fun to see. Barry reminds me of that South Park episode where Randy Marsh is bouncing up and down the street on his inflated testicles. He never followed up on his knockdowns, never tried to take the fight down unless it was a reversal situation, and he tried to beat CC at his own game. He did the same against Hardonk. That guy is fun to watch. Evan Dunham looked incredible.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:56 AM) Holy broken sarcasm detector. Sorry dude.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:45 AM) This is what I meant by this winning streak happening at the worst possible time. Do you honestly believe that the team you’ve been watching for the last three months is an anomaly? In some ways, yes, and in others, no. Andruw Jones: No. He was good when he was healthy. Now he's not, so now he's not good anymore. But he wasn't expected to remain healthy. No anomaly. Alex Rios & PK: No. They are very talented players who have shown what they can do in the past. They won't continue to be as amazing as they have been, but they are perfectly capable of having very productive years. No anomaly. Peavy, Mark, Gavin: Yes, anomalies. They're better than this. Linebrink: No, because he can be serviceable if not outright dominating in the first half. It'll be an anomaly if he is somewhat respectable in the 2nd. Teahen and Pierre: No because they suck. Freddy: No because he's got balls and has shown he can pitch off a much depleted fastball before. Sergio: Yes, very much so, and he'll have to come down at some point. Jenks: Yes, because he's (if healthy) much better than he has been up to this point. Thornton, Putz, Pena: No, all doing just about what was expected. AJ, Beckham, Quentin: Yes, they're all better than the way they've played. I'm confident in AJ and Gordon reversing this, and I believe they currently are, but CQ may need another change of scenery. Williams, Kotsay, Vizquel, Nix, Castro, etc.: No, because this is about what was expected from them. In short, if we get a couple pieces, and if our good players who started the season by sucking can start playing better baseball, then we are a much, much better team. I would believe, however, that we'd be dead and buried if we played in the AL East however. But we don't, so good for us, because with a nice run we can catch those Twins. QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:45 AM) That just because we can beat the s*** out of the Cubs, (a task that others teams like the Pirates have performed admirably), that we’re suddenly going to take off, make up 7.5 games on a team that’s not only better than us, but are fully capable of making the same moves to improve their team that people are suggesting in this thread? The optimist in me would love to think that is the start of that big turnaround, the realist thinks of losing to the Indians, the fact the guys like Beckham and Q show little promise at the plate, and the fact that our Manager and General Manager are locked in a power struggle as we speak, Not just that. We have lots of talented players on our roster. We're not making runs off players like Carlos Silva having improbably good seasons. We've got some really good players who aren't performing and a couple bad ones who also aren't performing. We need a bat or two and some rebounds. QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:45 AM) Going out and making lateral moves to make a suicide run at second place is not going to accomplish anything. Just like delaying the inevitable by keeping guys like AJ is only going to serve to set this organization up for failure now and into the future. Lateral moves??? Who said anything about a lateral move? A lateral move, IMO, would be like trading a good setup man in Santos for a good RF in Cody Ross, for example. Yes, we address one area, but we deplete another. We don't need to make lateral moves when we can package a couple minor leaguers who are NOT contributing at all and deal them off for someone who is a veteran and currently producing. Please tell me how trading AJ for some MiLB player who best case scenario probably has to fight for a bench/relief spot on the 2011 ballclub hurts our future. Please tell me how you think MLB pitchers are going to bow down to Tyroid and not eat him alive. Please tell me how holding on to a capable major league player hurts our future. Please tell me how contending in general hurts our future. Do you really think Tyler Flowers is a good enough baseball player to warrant a free reign at the MLB level? Do you really think Tyler Flowers is so good that we should abandon any thoughts of trying to salvage the season just so this wunderkind can play? I don't. Not at all.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:28 AM) It shouldn't come as a suprise that we can beat bad NL teams. There's a pretty profound gap between the AL and the NL: look no further then the Red Sox beating the living hell from the Phillies, or on the opposite end of the spectrum: the Indians destroying the Nationals. The Al is a flat-out better league then the NL, if we couldn't beat a team like the Cubs we might as well go home. The big problem with the getting hot theory is that when we're not facing the NL we're 12-13 against the AL Central and being flat-out dominated by teams like the Indians. I agree mostly about the AL being better, but the Indians are terrible. They are really, really bad and they wouldn't contend in at least two NL divisions. They really suck and we've padded their record. Look, if the SP comes around, if Beckham comes around, if the Sox grab another bat, and if (praying) Mark Teahen stays hurt all year, we've got a real shot at this thing. And if that's the case, then what we've done early on in the season without a strong starting staff, and without a good Gordon Beckham, and without another bat, and with Mark Teahen, really offers no indication at all that we'll play terrible baseball going forward.

My prediction is that we go over .500 when we go 43-42. We're going 15-11 over our next 26, but that'll have us in contention for the #2 spot in the division on July 11th after beating KC at home. From there we'll make our run because KW will wake up from his hibernation and go out and acquire us a player or two. We'll hit a good stretch from there and we'll be no more than 5 back at the end of July. This is how it's all going to play out. We'll chase the Twinkies down in August as they fade like they have for the last two years, but our pitching staff is just going to get stronger, and we'll end the season as division champs who clinch late. Teams will fear us in the playoffs.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2010 -> 07:50 PM) Why on earth would we be a buyer? And even if a legit answer to that question can be found, what do we have in the minors to trade for help? Because the object is to win, not lose. QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 12, 2010 -> 07:50 PM) -Targets- Kelly Johnson, OF Luke Scott, OF Both are under team control for next season as well. Scott will get a bit pricey but no more so that Quentin, who he would likely replace. KJ could also play 3rd. Ty Wiggington, 3B I dunno how legit he is but he would probably be better than Teahen. Alex Gordon, 3B Probably a pipe dream but i'd love to have him. And the big fish Prince Fielder, 1B/DH This likely costs more than we have got but man that would be a nice bat to have after Rios and Paulie. I like all of these ideas, and I'll add notorious 2nd half performer and impending FA Adam Laroche to this list as well. Prince, I agree, is a pipedream, but every other name on your list is very realistic IMO. QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 12, 2010 -> 08:02 PM) I wouldn't mind seeing Juan Uribe starting at 3B for the Sox for the rest of the season. I don't think it would be worth it for the Giants to give him up. They are contenders and they love him as much as we all (generally) hated him in 2007. QUOTE (chimpy2121 @ Jun 12, 2010 -> 10:36 PM) This thread would be good if we played in the NL. /end drunk comment that adds nothing to this thread See the sellers thread, hater. QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:13 AM) I think the Big East would target us first. Go watch that other crap then. This thread is about making the 2010 Chicago White Sox into World Champions. Don't stop believing.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 12, 2010 -> 07:24 PM) Equal opportunity posting, I say. Equal opportunity hatership IMO. Screw all of our s***ty prospects and their especially bleak futures.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 12, 2010 -> 08:02 PM) This hot streak is going to fool a lot of people. My worst fear for this year is that we keep the 2005 core so we can make a futile push for second place in this division. We need to change the culture of this organization, we need to install Flowers as our starting catcher, and be prepared to make changes that will put us in the position to be competitive for years to come. If our victories over bad teams now are more or less irrelevant then so is our terrible record against the Indians.

This thread is for people who think we should look for some help to climb back into this thing and NOT for the people who just want to trade everyone. Make your suggestions for who we should go after.

^Sounds like Kenny is pissed Ozzie made public comments about the situation and then went on another pointless table-flipping rampage. Rather than say anything to Ozzie he should go take this up with Cowley because Cowley is the one winning in all of this. Cowley's the one putting all this Guillen family s*** out there, stirring the pot, and all he's getting for it is readership. It's a damn shame it's come to this too. Kenny can be a great GM when he's concentrating on his job and trying to win. This year is all on Kenny, no matter what, because no matter what Ozzie ever said he wanted, Kenny is the GM and Kenny gets to call the shots. Please STFU and get this team some help.