Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 08:47 AM) There's more than can be done than that, but it depends on who picks up their game. If Becks and Q could ever find a groove, then things get a lot easier, but until that happens, we're struggling with too many lineup wounds and not enough gauze. Nope. En el mas de Junio: AJ: .362/.383/.569/.952 Paulie: .413/.493/.603 Alex: .333/.400/.472 Carlos: .246/.300/.477 - this is the best he's been all year Omar: .308/.362/.423 Juan: .257/.350/.286 - low average, but the highest OBP all year, and actually a respectable OBP for a lead-off hitter Alexi: .280/.308/.413 Gordon and Kotsay are the only ones who are having bad months. Everyone else is either good, very good, awesome, or at least the best they've been all year. *Edit: That said, we still need some help. But we're not as bad as people think. We've gotten better as the weather warmed, just as is always the case.

Beckham almost had a little bloop single last night and he drove a ball hard into the gap that got ran down. He very easily could have had 2 hits last night. The way he's playing at 2B, we need to keep him up. If the rest of the lineup keeps getting hot then it's going to just naturally take pressure off him and he'll start to perform. It's just a matter of time with him because he's too talented to keep hitting the way he has been. As for Viciedo, he needs to be used sparingly just for his bat right now. If he happens to hit his way into a DH role then that's great, then maybe you put him there when you can and work him in on D here and there. But you don't take a guy who isn't going to play premuim defense and insert him in the lineup in a contending season unless his bat has proven it belongs there, and thus far that has not been the case. He's swinging well, but no way do you bench Beckham for him. Omar looks to be in great shape. We should look to acquire some insurance for him, but even at his age I'm not sure we can beat him down with regular play. The guy is in great shape.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 08:38 AM) Speaking of which... When was the last time the Sox won 7 straight? I assume you have to go back to the 8 straight they won, multiple times, in 2005. I think we had an 8-gamer in 2006. But just in terms of, like Hawk says, hitting the ball, catching the ball, throwing the ball, this is the best we've been in a very long time. We're getting 2-out hits, playing great D, the rotation and pen are both mighty right now, etc. We just look like a ballclub that's going to win games right now. We're not having those 2-out errors that lead to three runs, or those bases loaded, nobody out, strikeout-popup-flyout 0-RBI games.

And one more thing, this stretch of baseball is the best all-around Sox stretch I've seen since we came from behind to streak our way into the playoffs in 2008. We didn't play this good the entire 2009 season IMO, and most of 2008 either. Certainly not 2007. If we keep playing like this we'll be playing the best ball we've played since at least 2006.

QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:26 AM) lol right and we still have like 10 more games against the Nats, I think like 8 against Pittsburgh.. we get the Cubs about 7 more times.. this thing aint ova yet!!!!! Seriously though, this NL s*** is waaaay overblown. The Sox are playing great defense all around. This hadn't happened this year. The Sox are getting key hits with two outs. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seemed like just Paulie and Rios were doing that before. The Sox are pitching GREAT - and look at their stuff. s***, look at how sharp Floyd was against Strasburg. We didn't luck into that victory. Floyd simply can pitch like an ace when he's on. Our pitchers are ON right now, not just facing weak hitters. Bobby Jenks seems to be back, and everyone else in the pen except Williams and Linebrink are still very strong. The Sox are beating GOOD YOUNG PITCHERS! Yes, the pitching is allowing them do it, but the key here is we are winning baseball games - even against the NL - that we shouldn't be winning normally. The Sox aren't supposed to beat Strasburg and JD Martin back-to-back like that. They're supposed to get Fisted like against the great Doug Fister. But they've been doing it with the bat, just enough. The Sox are also making good pitchers pay for their mistakes. Look at last night against Hanson. Knowing that at any point the guy could find his groove and start mowing guys down, the Sox jumped all over him as soon as they could. EVERYONE IN THE LINEUP was drilling the ball off this guy. When's the last time we saw that?! Look, the horses*** NL in general may have been what this team needed to get rolling, but now they're f***ing rolling. You don't sleepwalk through the type of road trip the Sox have had, no matter how good you are. If what the Sox are doing right now was so easy then everyone would be doing it - like, for instance, the Tigers and Twins, who I seem to recall had the dogs*** stomped out of them last night. What's happening is the defense is winning the pitchers over. The pitching is winning the offense over. The offense in return is winning the pitching over, and the pitching is winning the defense over after that. Everyone's relaxing, everyone's showing up to the park confident. Struggling players are starting to let their natural talents work for themselves. There is an energy in the way Omar is f***in' it up over at 3B. There is energy in the way Viciedo is swinging the baseball bat, and the way Chris Sale spoke last night about hurrying the f*** up and getting here so we have an even more dominant bullpen. Kenny is paying attention now, he's not sleeping anymore. Hudson will be up soon, it's inevitable. Kenny's about to go shopping. This summer is going to be fun, f*** the haters. I suggest you get the f*** onboard right now unless you want to be left in the dust as we pass the Tigers and Twins. Go Sox.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 05:40 PM) It's a shame that because of his mediocre 2005 (and infamous almost game 3 debacle against the Red Sox) that many have forgotten just how unbelievably dominant Marte was for most of his tenure with the Sox. Holy s***, I totally agree with you on something. You're absolutely right, too. Damaso Marte was an absolute beast for us for a good period of time. That Marte-Flash Gordon duo back in 2003 was one of the sickest combos we had that decade.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:32 PM) The Sox are not going to have a $4.5M utility player on their roster next year. Especially one year after Kenny gave him a very generous contract extension. If he isn't an every-day player, he'll get dealt. And how can you say that on a night when our $5M mop-up guy damn near made a blowout interesting. And didn't you just say in your other post that we couldn't deal him? Because I agree. It'll take us eating lots of salary (very atypical of the Sox) or taking on an even worse deal (ditto) or throwing in a sweetener (also unlikely) to get a big money team to take that deal on. So I don't see what any of that means. His deal was a mistake and now it's a sunk cost. QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:32 PM) I fail to see how Teahen is a massive defensive downgrade from Quentin. Moving Quentin to DH may even be a necessity, out of financial and health reasons. And the Sox FO has a long history of not caring what you or I think. Yeah, we might as well just rename Teahen Lindsey Lohan in that scenario given all the wild and crazy adventures he'll go on chasing down balls. Quentin to DH though isn't a problem at all for me, but let's put a player out there who is actually good enough to move him there. Teahen is not that guy. QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:32 PM) I don't get the Teahen hatred. He's obviously a below-average player, but he's versatile, he's a left-handed bat with some gap power, and his OPS is decent enough to hit in the bottom third of most lineups. He isn't Dewayne Wise, Josh Fields, or Jayson Nix. Kenny obviously intends to use him as a "bridge" to the next generation of outfielders (D2 and whoever else makes it up). He's not going anywhere any time soon. The best that we can hope for is that Teahen is 7th or 8th on the team in OPS next year, instead of 4th. No, he's not any of those guys. But I wish he was so we could cut him and not be on the hook for the next two years of his deal. If you mean to celebrate Teahen by comparing him to those guys though, let's at least acknowledge Wise as a good defender for his positions and Nix actually versatile enough to handle IF duties despite his tendencies to sleep on throws to first base. Teahen doesn't do much of anything other than hit decently sometimes as a lefty. He's fine as a UT guy but it's not like Mark Teahen is a leader of men in that role. And wait a minute here, you're saying Kenny obviously intends to use Teahen as a bridge to the next generation of outfielders?!?! What?! No, Kenny intended on getting a league average all-around 3B that he'd be able to move if he had to, and one that may have turned into a possible bargain. Turns out he f***ed the hell up, now he has to do something with this bad contract. The solution isn't to turn this thing into a domino effect that ruins other aspects of the team as well. Use Teahen in his role, admit your mistake, try to fix it, and move on improving the baseball team.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:21 PM) So your saying DH work with the occasional 3B every now and then? Works for me. Yeah, a little first base, a touch of third, some DH work, pinch hitting duties - you know, the stuff that made posters here want the guy in the first place back when he was with the Royals. Teahen the player isn't the problem, it's his role and his contract. But yeah, the Sox aren't anywhere near the point where they're forced to play the guy everyday because of his deal. His contract may be horrible, but he's not Travis Hafner or anything like that.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:10 PM) Teahen is owed $10M over the next two years, so he's not riding the pine. It's also unlikely that somebody trades for him, so I'd suggest that you get used to him being on the roster. By the way, dropping the f- and s-bomb in every other sentence and acting like a cantankerous 12-year-old doesn't help prove your point. Yes he is, if we have better players. He may be on the team because of his salary but that doesn't mean he has to be on the field. And if the Sox try to sell Mark Teahen as an everyday cog in 2011 - especially as a godforsaken outfielder - then expect the Sox FO to catch worse hell than they did over the CF situation pre-Rios. By the way, I'm full of piss and vinegar. Right now I'm actually punching something. It's a dog, actually. I'm beating the s*** out of my dog as I'm typing this. Poor doggie.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:54 PM) I still support trading Mark Kotsay. If we get a nice piece that will put Kotsay in a strict PH/occasional sub role then suddenly he'll look like a much better player.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:05 PM) LMAO. Dude, you're lame as hell. You were one of the main culprits when it came to "f*** KW! f*** OZZIE! f*** THIS TEAM! BLOW IT UP!" Don't even think about trying to call out other folks. Nope. Yes, I was all over the "f*** Kenny/Ozzie!" stuff (mostly Kenny and not so much Ozzie) but not on the blow it up talk. I've done nothing but support trying to win, and when it looked like we we're going into sell mode anyway I talked about guys we should look to move and not move. But never under any circumstances have I been one of you.... people.

Other good hate names (that I would endorse) would be: TheMarkTeahenHateFactory Hateapalooza2010 Dr. Hate FieldsOfHate TheHateParade TheRightToHate HatersInc. TheHatersClub TheHatersClubForPeopleOtherThanYou etc. We need more venom here anyway IMO.

Oooooooh, oooooooooh, ooooooooh, trade Mark! Trade AJ! Bring up Flowers cuz he's so great! Ooooooh, tanking is so fun! We'll never catch the Twins!!!! Please gimme some Jordan Danks! Oh, Freddy's done! Peavy will never pitch well again! LOL. Eat it yall.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:38 PM) I'm all for that. Meanwhile, an upgrade at the DH spot would help justify carrying Omar's bat (read: his glove at 3rd) in the lineup. Sort of reminds this old bird of 1983 when the Sox decided to go with Aurelio Rodriguez' outstanding defense at third base, despite his below-average bat. If we could just upgrade at DH, along with a return to form by CQ and Bacon, we might just be in business here. That sounds like a great plan, and something tells me that that would make our pitchers very happy.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:28 PM) ??? Need I explain? Jesus Christ. The Royals already tried that. Mark Teahen is a s***ty outfielder too. And why the f*** would anyone expect - much less HOPE - for Mark Teahen to be in any of our future outfields? Have some f***ing expectations why don't you.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 07:00 PM) Because, as mediocre as Teahen is at the plate, he's hit major-league pitching reasonably well for several years. Viciedo is 21 years old and is JUST beginning to hit minor-league pitching. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. And you don't throw an unknown into the lineup when you're still in the hunt. First off, Teahen has no business taking any playing time from Omar Vizquel as long as #11 is breathing. Even if Omar never gets another hit the rest of the year he's still better than Mr. Swiss Cheese over there, and at least Omar can handle the bat. So Viciedo vs. Teahen really shouldn't even be a discussion right now. Secondly, Mark Teahen hitting MLB pitching "reasonably well" isn't much of an endorsement when you factor in what a huge pile of s*** he is on defense. Viciedo should in no way lose playing time because of Teahen. Vizquel is another story, as long as we're winning. The best thing Mark Teahen can do for this ballclub is stay the hell off of it.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 06:54 PM) DHing Teahen wouldn't be a bad idea. If you want a rotating DH, Teahen/Jones is a much better option than Kotsay/Jones. Of course, that also puts Vizquel in the lineup every day, which is an offensive drag. I would hope that Teahen moves to a corner OF position next year. Dude...

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) Teahen is going to play. We're going to have to live with that. I don't mind trading some schmuck for Gonzalez, but I don't see why the Jays are going to trade him for some schmuck. I didn't mean trade them a schmuck, I meant trade them someone who has a chance but probably won't matter in the end. Like, give them a deal around Leesman or something. But it doesn't matter anyway. I see Gonzalez has a $2.5M club option for 2011 so he'll probably cost more than I originally thought. I thought it was just a straight 1-year deal.

Because you can't spell 'team' without "Randy Will...' ...oh wait, you can. Good question.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 01:54 PM) Full time pinch hitter against National League opponents. I think he could probably play a little bit here and there. Maybe you hide him somewhere for 7 innings to give someone else a rest and then bring in a replacement. If he's up here swinging the bat like he did in his debut then you always want to leave the door open just a little for the possible phenom factor, just in the off chance the kid gets hot and starts to go off. You want that energy on the team if that happens, so I'd try to let him play a little bit until he proved at the MLB level that he couldn't handle anything defensively. But yeah, under no circumstances should he be a regular position player right now. If for any reason he did get hot and start to make the girls panties wet then you put him at DH and feed somebody to the dogs.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 01:08 PM) Are you willing to overpay for Alex Gonzalez? It would depend on what overpaying was. Overpaying for a journeyman veteran stopgap SS who realistically is only a couple years from retirement may not be all too big of an overpayment. Basically, if I were Kenny, there would be players on the farm whom I would never under any circumstances trade for Alex Gonzalez - no matter what time of year - and then there would be other players who were drafted specifically to be the types of guys you give up for an Alex Gonzalez-type of player. I'd call the Jays and make an offer from the latter pool, and if they wanted a little bit better player from that group because it's not July yet, I'd give them one. Because I wouldn't care enough not to. IMO Kenny is too smart anyway to pull a Bavasi and dump off a Choo or Asdrubal Cabrera for platoon players. And if the Jays wanted a deal like that, then move on. But I'd look for some help because I never want to see Mark Teahen play 3B again unless he's doing it for the opponent. Scratch that, I never want to see him put on a uniform again unless it's for the opponent. So Omar will need some help, and Viciedo probably isn't ready to play MLB defense (although his bat may very well come in handy if he's used correctly).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 12:37 PM) Oh, so maybe they just shouldn't even ever try, right? Because that is probably going to be the case for the next 5-10 years. Maybe they should just become the AAA team for the rest of the League instead of having any delusions of competing themselves! That would probably be a good idea for at least this year. They should look to get better in the long term instead of trying to chase down three juggernauts in the short term, and that will be exactly what they'll do. It's just a question of when they want to start selling, but I'd approach them now. Overybay will be gone for nothing since he's not hitting, but they'll look to get something from Downs, Frasor, Alex Gonzalez too most likely...

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 12:12 PM) He's 33. It's not like hes gonna suddenly figure something out and improve on those last 2.5 seasons as he gets older. Figure what out? Why is he hitting so well early on and then fading later? It's either mental, or it's physical conditioning, or something mechanical. In either case there is reason to believe a change of scenery could really help him, since unlike Pierre his entire game isn't predicated on speed.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 12:19 PM) Why are the Blue Jays, who are in contention, going to trade us Alex Gonzalez? Because the three best teams in baseball all happen to be in their division and ahead of them in the standings?

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 11:04 AM) The previous point I was attempting to refute made it seem like one particularly poor pitcher that Rios faced was the difference in how he hit. I see. I just think it's funny how awesome Alex Rios is right now. Reading that made me think of Bill Braski.