Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2010 -> 12:10 AM) That's just it, even if it's what we think is sensible Kenny isn't really a "safe move" kind of guy, trading for and subsequently locking up for no good reason Mark Teahen, trading for Peavy and acquiring Rios all within a few months of each other proves that out. If he believes the division is winnable (and at this point there's no reason to believe otherwise) you'd have to think he goes for the perfect fit even if it does cause some major personnel and financial issues if we come up short at season's end. The guy wants nothing more than to win and to show how f***ing huge his balls are while doing so. Good point. Then in that case, Prince is the most dangerous move he can make. Trade the farm and the lose the guy for draft picks when Borass goes behind his back? Yeah that could really hurt. Gonzalez he may have really no control over unless he wants to add Beckham, given D2's issues and Mitchell being out. Berkman is hardly that dangerous since he'll be the cheapest of the big bats other than LaRoche. Dunn should be the move then. It's dangerous (costs a lot, rental, may not extend to be a DH here) but it could potentially work out brilliantly.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 11:38 PM)

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 11:51 PM) I agree with you and personally I think Kenny has higher aspirations than Adam LaRoche for our DH vacancy (that's right, I'm calling it a vacancy) that'll take him a while longer to acquire. I've mostly argued the point because I don't think the debated scenario is out of the realm of possibility. Who? We're pretty much confined to a lefty, or at least we should be looking for a lefty over anything else. AGon - winning or not the Pads could move him, but they probably won't now, and he'll be uber expensive Dunn - very expensive, but great fit IF we feel he'll stick around as a DH going forward Berkman - possible deal here, but if Astros are eating cash they'll want something back and he's only hitting in the .240's in the freaking NL Central LaRoche - best option all considered IMO Prince - lol, yeah right Luke Scott - Orioles will ask a lot, much more than he's worth IMO Overbay - available for nothing if we want him, but having a terrible year Lind - any chance on this? could we find a match and send a haul to Toronto? probably not, and he's having a bad year anyway Ibanez - probably could be had, having a bad year, change of scenery? DeJesus - dangerous if we actually want to send good players to KC, which they'll demand, but not a power option Fukudome - maybe move some bad deals and/or get s***load of salary back, but he's not even a power option anyway Garrett Jones - would Pirates deal him? for how much, and would it be worth it to buy sky-high on a former AAAA player? Probably other options, too. But LaRoche seems like a guy who would help us now, and even if he didn't, we wouldn't be taking on a massive salary and the players we sent back likely wouldn't come around to bite us in the end. He's the cheap, safe move IMO.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 09:50 PM) Yes, but you have to let the market settle a little bit, if you over-reach out of desperation, you end up paying way too much. Shedding Flowers or Hudson now, before we see how well the White Sox stand up head-to-head against Minnesota and Detroit...probably not the smartest move in the world, because obviously AJ and Freddy Garcia aren't going to be around forever. And it's not like the White Sox just took off and cruised when they added Rios and Peavy. Obviously, Peavy was hurt, but Rios was in a funk all year long, and that funk was passed on to JD, who saw the writing on the wall in terms of his future and he started moping and it affected the attitude/chemistry of the entire team. So you have to be very careful when you tinker with something that's going so well. Like in 2006, all the changes KW made were "logical" ones but sometimes you can mess around with a good thing too much. We just need to ride this out to its conclusion, then, you can start thinking about changes/tweaks/improvements to the roster. Who knows how long we can ride Vizquel, how Beckham ends up...but we need to give this at least two more weeks of constant monitoring. The first part - I don't think an Adam LaRoche type costs a Hudson or Flowers at any point in the season. We're talking about a guy who the Red Sox acquired for very little just last season and then sent to the Braves for walking human suckfest Casey Kotchman. LaRoche is the perfect addition IMO since he's a lefty, he's a second half guy, he has power, and he should come fairly cheap. The second and third parts I agree on. I'd go after a complimentary piece, but a Kelly Johnson type (i.e. good player who is having a good year that isn't way out of line with what is expected of him normally) would probably be a little too much to target right now, since Beckham may be getting back to where he should be. We don't want to move some chips for a 2B only to find out later that 3B is our greatest area of need. But that said I'd definitely be calling on some defense-first guys who are capable of playing multiple IF positions just to see what is available for what price, because someone like that is probably going to be needed no matter what.

QUOTE (Real @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 09:25 PM) The ultimate burn and I would laugh my ass off if it happened, would be to send Zambrano to Pittsburgh and eat half his contract. That would be amazing...

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 08:44 PM) I like KHP as a poster, but I have to lol at his attempts to constantly trade Pierre, Linebrink, and Teahen to the Cubs for bad contracts. Sorry. I do do that a lot.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 10:43 PM) If he was ordered to go home, then he should have stapled a letter on the wall saying he was out of line. He should have called all his teammates on the cell and/or texted them all before going out to eat with Oz. What a complete piece of s***. His act in the dugout was flat out scary and embarrassing. He was not just mad, he was lunatic mad. I can't believe he didn't hit Lee. He was so out of control. A guy that makes that kind of money and the stuff he had on the mound ... to act like that is simply embarrassing. If I were Lou I'd never ever let him start again. Another pitcher who gets a fat contract and simply sucks. His apology to the team should be a real long one because not often do you see something that disrespectful and ridiculous. Lee is a veteran and supposedly a class act and the third baseman has had some good years as well. Both were shots down the line that were unplayable and yet Zambrano goes off. What a dumbass. Dude, I'd love having Zambrano here. Just imagine what he'd do to Mark Teahen after performing his invisible glove trick with RISP.... :drooling:

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 10:54 PM) I'll bold mine too.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 11:34 AM) Gordon Beckham to AAA would be the biggest mistake the Sox could make. The kid already had a tough beginning when he first came up, then found his mojo and started tearing up the league. I think he's going to find his stroke again, this year, and perhaps very soon. His HR and sac fly last night may have been the kind of spark he needed. It was also hilarious the reception he got from the bench. I think you could play Vizquel at 2B some, to give more time to Viciedo. But Ozzie also should consider DH'ing Viciedo some to give him more ABs. Omar is also going to need time off to stay fresh. I just think that now that Quentin and AJ seem to have righted themselves, and Ramirez to some extent, that you'll see Beckham start to heat up as well. We've already seen him turn it around once in the majors. No reason he can't do it again. And when he does, our offense would actually start to be almost dangerous. Certainly strong enough to win the games when we get good pitching. I agree, and great post.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 03:25 PM) And if D2 becomes another Wise at the leadoff spot we're back to our 2009 woes. Why would D2 be leading off? Kenny would have to get someone. There are all kinds of 4th OF out there who are having better seasons than Pierre is who would be available right now for scratch.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) What y'all ought to realize out of those posts is how pathetically bad the Cubs's bad contracts really are. We could be dumping every one of our bad contracts for one of theirs, and we'd still be giving up too much. Yeah. And the funny part is that Z's isn't even the worst.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 26, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) Zambrano had no velocity yesterday. If that's Zambrano, no thanks. As far as that trade, that's kind of funny. It's like a pretend trade you'd make as a kid with friends. Throw in some horrible horrible players (no offense, Juan, you've been pretty damn good since your rough start) in a pretend trade for some other player. The Cubs would have to be idiots to want Pierre, Linebrink and Teahen. Might as well throw Lilly in there and Randy Williams as well. The first part kind of answers the second part. The Cubs wouldn't necessarily *want* any of our crappy players, but their backs might be against the wall. -Zambrano is paid a ton of money per season -He's under contract through 2012 with a vesting option for 2013 -Cubs are bogged down in bad deals -Anger management issues keep popping up, and serious ones at that -Fans are tired of him -Velocity is down -Been in the bullpen, probably (haven't looked at the numbers) the most expensive reliever in baseball over the last several years and maybe top-5 in baseball history (Zito was in the pen IIRC, but who else sent to the pen was owed MORE money than Z?) -Has a reputation for being uncontrollable -Is becoming an embarrassment to an organization which is an embarrassment in itself (could argue it's a good match here) -Has 100% final say on any and every possible trade given his full NTC -Management can not get through to him and what team other than the Sox would actually believe their manager could? Put that all together and it's easy to see an offer as s***ty as the one I proposed being the best offer available. The Sox would be taking a major gamble here, but I'd f***ing do it given the potential upside and the fact that worst case scenario we're still not losing much since Teahen, Linebrink, and Pierre are sunk costs already. All that said, what will likely happen is the Cubs will make Z give a public apology, they'll send him to a counselor, the Cubs FO + announcers + Z himself will pay lip service to the fans & they'll stupidly buy it, the Cubs will send Lou packing in the mean time, and the Cubs will run Zambrano back out there hoping to raise his value enough to the point where they can dump him by only eating *half* his contract.

IMO, we should try to do Pierre + Linebrink + Teahen + prospects (no one all that great) to the Cubs for Zambrano and $9.5M cash in 2012. Pierre + Linebrink + Teahen = $12.25M in 2010, $15.25M in 2011, $5.5M in 2012 Zambrano's deal = $17.875M in 2010, $17.875M in 2011, $18M in 2012, potential $19.25M vesting PO in 2013. The PO ONLY vests in the event that Zambrano finishes top-4 in the 2012 Cy Young polling AND is healthy at the end of the season which actually makes it a very team-friendly vesting option as opposed to typical Cubbie vesting options. Sox would be paying Zambrano above their 3-headed monster of Teahen/Pierre/Linebrink the following: a prorated $5.65M in 2010, $2.625M in 2011, $3M in 2012 plus taking on the potential vesting PO. Ozzie is the one guy who could potentially straighten this dude out and get him back to the #2-#3 SP form he used to be, and Z would without a doubt waive his full NTC to play for Ozzie. Ozzie would be his #1 choice anyway. If Ozzie could get Z's head on straight and settle him down this could be another epic and completely unfair steal for Kenny "Scorched Earth/Rape + Pillage" Williams. I'd do it today if possible. Ozzie talks Z into going down to the minors for a couple starts to get right, and then we do whatever is necessary at that time (6-man rotation? piggy-back? trade?). In the meanwhile, Hudson comes up and takes Linebrink's roster spot, Jordan Danks temporarily comes up to take Pierre's roster spot, Threets takes over for Williams, Kotsay/Jones goes to left, Viciedo takes over at DH, and Kenny works on picking up a stopgap LF/RF lead-off hitter and a LH DH.

LOL at anyone taking that line seriously.

IF Gordon got sent down then why do people want Viciedo there? Put Viciedo at DH with Omar at 3B and if you can't stand Lillibridge at 2B then pick up a temporary stop gap. Why risk the bad D again? Besides, I don't know why we just don't leave Beckham up. Even with his current struggles he still offers greater offensive potential at 2B than anything else we have at 2B, and his defense next to Alexei has been stronger than Viciedo's would be at third or Hudson/Retherford/etc. at 2B. Lilli is the only guy we've got ready who may be able to play better D, but our current Gordon is still better than that with the bat. Gordon will be back, and it'll come soon. People around him are hitting and getting on base and sooner than later he'll start settling down and getting the hits he needs to build himself back up.

The problem for the Cubs is that Sox fans are currently sporting relentless game boners, and Carlos Zambrano happens to be one of those guys. I wish Lou good luck in convincing him not to throw the game, but I doubt any of his disconnected food rambling is going to help this time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 25, 2010 -> 09:50 AM) It would be nice to add a better leadoff hitter, but there is a bigger blackhole in the lineup at the DH spot which could be improved immensely. Agree. I've never ever been a Juan fan, but this month his OBP is exactly where it should be and the defense he's played out there in left has been undeniable. Right now he's helping us win ballgames.

Being an anti-Juan Pierrist I would love little more than to see a legitimate AL lead-off man replace him right now, but not even I would make that kind of change in the middle of what could potentially become a 34-game win streak. We're at 9 right now, and IMO Kenny doesn't do anything until we're at least losing a couple games. We'll probably have to go on a 2-game losing streak at least, because one game and Kenny will just be confused as he'll have forgotten the feeling of a loss since it hasn't happened in ages, so it sould take at least two to get Kenny to realize he's got moves to make. But that would be okay.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 05:30 PM) In a way, it tells you a little bit about the player's ability, because you don't see everybody driving in 100 runs. However, most of it is about who hits around you. Adrian Gonzalez getting only 100 RBI a year doesn't mean he's nowhere near as good as Ryan Howard. As much as everyone loves Adrian, he's still underrated IMO.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 03:18 PM) Yeah it always made sense to me. All show and no dough. Big swing, no contact. Matt Abattacola I never did understand though. I guess Matt asked Hawk to make a syaing up with his name...so broken bat hits became Abattacolas. go figure. I never understood Hawk calling broken bats Matt Abattacolas either until yesterday listening to the score when that douche made a series of "uh" soundbytes to make fun of new Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau. f*** that guy.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 01:36 PM) T-Bolt will be very sad. And frankly, I'm not happy either. Why on either? If you guys like Nix the person then he'll have a much better shot over there than he would have had here. No way was he going to come back and leapfrog Omar and probably not Viciedo either.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 01:11 PM) I still don't want Hudson in the bullpen. Don't you think he'd at least benefit more seeing MLB hitters in the pen than starting in Charlotte? I do. I don't know what else he needs to work on down there that he can't work on here. He's ready. Of course calling up Santeliz or something might work too, but Hudson is right now the best pitcher we've got in the minors, and Hudson over Linebrink is the best talent-for-talent upgrade we can make there.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 01:24 PM) LOL. Ouch. He and Brendan Harris playing catch between innings would sure give a workout to the fans sitting three rows up on the third base side.

...........

Even as bad as Linebrink is, I can't imagine they wouldn't find a taker if they were willing to eat everything but $1.5-2M left on his deal. He does have very good stuff, and he is a vet, and there are a lot of NL teams that need pitching. Even if the Sox could eat everything except the prorated minimum this year and another $1M in 2011, that's still a few extra bucks to put towards another area while trying out someone else. I just don't think the Sox want to do that and that's why Linebrink is still here. They probably think he'll turn around just enough to the point where they can move him without eating quite as much cash. But that said, my hope is that Kenny is at the end of his rope with Scott. My hope is that Kenny wants this division and he wants the best bullpen possible, and that means Hudson is here and Linebrink is gone by any means necessary.