supernuke

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:54 PM) The organization neither screwed him or lied to him. He'd been told multiple times the work he needed to put in to get better, he didn't. This is a guy who watches TV in the clubhouse instead of studying film. The White Sox are not in the business of wanting their players to fail. It's no one's fault but his own that he's acting unprofessionally. Well maybe it's not his fault. Maybe Ozzie and KW should have scheduled weekly meetings with him to keep him informed of their plans for him. I'm sure that would have helped him. Damn KW and Ozzie, not making enough time for this budding superstar.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) There needs to be some major work done with his swing before he'll even be a respectable hitter. Looks to me like the attitude needs to be fixed before anything can be worked on. He just comes off as a primadona who thinks everything is owed to him and I beleive that attitude is why the orginization has "dicked him around".

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 11:58 PM) Richar has nothing to do with this. This is about the Iguchi trade. It was a horrible trade and KW should be ashamed. What is so wrong about asking for a player who is at least a big leaguer for Iguchi?? If the Mets wanted him as well, it's really really a shame KW gave him away. Disgraceful. Before Utley went down the Mets were probably the only contender that may have been looking for a second base rental. Based on KW's quick call to the Phillies after Utley went down I woud have to think that there was really no interest in Tad from the Mets. I guess we should have just kept him for the rest of the season and let him earn his 1 million while sitting on the bench and then let him go for nothing at the end of the year.

I can not believe that anyone could possibly be upset with this trade. The Sox have to see what Richar can do in the majors now. If they didn't trade Tad he would have to spend the last two months of the season as a bench player so Richar could play. Tad looks to be declining anyway and I would not be surprised if he ends up back in Japan next year. If any team would have been willing to give up more than a C level prospect for a 2B they would have been giving it up for Lorreta or Hudson or Grudz or Castillo knowing that they would get some draft picks back if they did not resign them or have their rights for next year in the case of Hudson.

QUOTE(ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:36 AM) Look for books/writings by Gene Carneyon this subject. He is one of, if not the most, prominent authority on this subject. I did a bunch of research for a senior thesis two years ago in college on this subject and how it tied into the changing times in the U.S. from the 1910's into the 1920's. I used a bunch of stuff written by him and also went to the HoF itself to use its archives to do research in their library (which is very cool, by the way). Although not an innocent figure, i'm not so sure how involved Jackson was in this. There are a lot of holes in many arguments from a bunch of untrustwhrothy sources (including Arnold Rothstein). I cant get into it much now w/o my paper and being at work, but if interested in this subject you definitely have to look at works by Gene Carney. I just recently finnished his book Burying the Black Sox. I thought it was more informative than 8 men out. I would also recomend Say it ain't so Joe by Doanald Gropman, the biography is a little dry but there is some good info in there. Red Legs and Black Sox was also a good read, it has a perspective of the scandal from the Reds side.

Well played Mr. Buehrle, well played.

The only thing KW did wrong was to let himself get played by Mark Buehrle. If MB is so sick of all the rumors then maybe he should have told his people not to leak things to the media. If he wants to avoid the media why is he cleaning out his locker in front of them, he is stiring the pot to get some publicity and drive those free agent dollars up. I'll give MB credit. He is playing this out to perfection and he will get the payday he is looking for.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 09:53 AM) But Jon Rauch? He was just a kid...in the majors for the first time...and he did some fool thing and GONE. It's interesting. Clearly he's not Dusty Baker who doesn't want young guys. But if he meets a young guy with an ego? Dog house. Even more curious since Ozzie as a player was up and brash at 21 I really don't think Ozzie has a problem with young guys who have an ego. I think his problem is with young guys with an ego that don't seem to respect the game. Ozzie may have a big ego but I think he has a bigger respect for the game.

I still think this was all done by Mark's camp. I think the Sox gave up on signing him last year when he turned down the contract that was offered then. They were activly shopping him so it is obvious that he was not in the plans. Someone on Marks side must have got the ball rolling on this recent round of talks and saying a hometown discount could be had. They then leak it to the media that Mark will sign for a discount so Mark looks like the good guy and then at the last minute they bring out the NTC knowing full well that the Sox wont go for it. Mission acomplished, Mark gets the big money in free agency and leaves looking like the good guy.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:13 PM) Which is exactly what the Buehrle side wants you to believe. Yeah, it looks like Mark played this out perfectly. I think he is getting exactly what he wanted.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) That would make me right. Was there ever any doubt.

Got to hand it to the Buehrle camp on this one. They have everybody beleiving that he really wanted to stay. He never had any intention of signing, this was just an effort to look good in front of the fans. Notice a lot of the sources talked about in articles were said to be people outside the organization but close to the negotiation. To me that says these were people on Mark's side of the table. This was all just a PR effort, but it was organized by the Buehrle camp not the Sox.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 27, 2007 -> 12:56 PM) So he fed him bulls*** for the whole damn month about still being in the running for a starting job, every damn day going to the media saying if Brian produces in Spring he's my guy and the whole thing was just a ruse to get Brian motivated? That's just ridiculous if true. What did Darin Erstad do during the Spring to earn the starting CF job? Is Ozzie's motto: "Nothing is just handed to you everything is earned" just a crock of s***? Erstad and Podsednik were handed jobs this Spring, neither of them earned it. And to say "he saw something in Erstad that he didn't see in Anderson" or anything along those lines is such a cop out. He could say that at any time to justify any asinine decision he chooses to make. "I've decided to go with Alex Cintron as my secondbaseman, I just saw something in his this Spring that I did not see in Tadahito." You as a fan can not question that, he is immune to criticism because you're not out there on the practice fields every day watching these guys play, if he says he saw something in Cintron that makes him a better candidate to start over Iguchi then who are you to question him. What if Ozzie had used this logic in choosing Floyd over Danks for the 5th spot? "Floyd just showed me somthing that Danks didn't" Would that be acceptable? At a certain point lying to motivate a player becomes too much and the word of Ozzie as a man comes into question, how can you EVER believe anything he says? He could have some ulterior motives behind the things he says. What about Brian in all of this? He did everything asked of him this spring and beat out the competition yet despite meeting the objectives of his manager and being rewarded accordingly he's told "Sorry kid, you never really had a shot" or "Not good enough". Seems pretty slimy to me. Although I really don't see anything in BA I do agree that he should be starting over Erstad. I have no problem with people questioning Ozzie's decisions, he definatley makes some bad ones. I just don't see how so many people can claim to know the reasoning behind his decisions. Like I said questioning his decision to start Erstad is fine, but saying that BA was never given a chance is nothing but speculation. Ozzie may have given BA a chance and just didn't see what he wanted to see, I disagree with the decision but I couldn't call him a liar or a hyppocrite because of it.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 27, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) It's like selective hearing only with reading, half of that post had nothing to do with anything I had posted. Ozzie gave the illusion that he was holding an open competition in the outfield, if Brian produced during the spring and beat out his competition that he would be granted a starting job. This was obviously a charade, he had Erstad penciled in as his starting centerfielder from day one and never actually intended on holding any sort of competition. That's called hypocrisy. Maybe Ozzie gave the illusion of an open competition to try and motivate BA to work hard and improve. Maybe he felt that if he told BA sorry kid I don't think you are ready for the starting job that there would be no reason for him to work and try and get better. Maybe it was an open competition and there is still something that Ozzie wants to see from this guy that just isn't there.

I heard that AJ was upset about losing ABs so he convinced Ozzie that Hall would be more versitile if he could play 1B. He was then heard offering $100 to anyone on the opposing team who could make Hall dive resulting in an injury. It is clearly AJ's fault.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Mar 17, 2007 -> 08:53 PM) Looks like good news: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines Center fielder Brian Anderson insisted his right ankle was fine after limping to first base on a grounder for the second out of the ninth in a loss to the Angels. Anderson said he initially rolled the ankle during batting practice and then aggravated it in his last at-bat while taking a hard swing and miss that caused him to tumble. Anderson barely attempted to run to first after getting jammed by Alex Serrano. "It freaked me out. When I went out of the box, I told myself I'll take the out because I don't want to do anything" Anderson said. Lazy Primadonna

QUOTE(earthshiner @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 02:47 PM) I see five bench spots open on this team. 1. Hall is obvious. C 2. Perez because someone on this team needs to hit lefties can play 1b/3b/LF/RF 3. Ozuna stays because he is the fastest guy on the team and Pauly/Thome/AJ/Crede/Perez are gonna need a runner late in games. can play SS/2B/3B/LF 4. Erstad or Terrero depending on Anderson and Pods if either of them don't start the year on the team then it will be Terrero. both play the entire OF and Erstad 1B 5. That leaves Cintron and Mackowiak. If you get rid of Cintron then Ozuna is your top backup middle IF. Seeing as how we don't really have depth in our org as SS or 2B and with Fields ready and waiting in AAA I think that makes Makowiak expendable. Not saying he is bad but there is no room for him. Cintron can play SS/2B/3B. Makowiak can play 3B/OF/2B note, I am not saying these guys are good at the positions I listed but they have played a significant amount of games there. Perez has played all those position, but can he still play them or is he just a 1B/DH/PH now?

QUOTE(supernuke @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) 100% agree. I think Ozzie actually want this guy to succed and not handing him the starting job is probably the best thing for him. If BA actually is a lazy primadonna he needs a kick in the ass to realize that he needs to work to get the starting job and I think that is what Ozzie is doing. QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) So, the guy goes to winterball despite not wanting to because the team asks him to, loses 20 pounds when he contracts a digestive illness, spends the rest of the winter working with Konerko to fix the holes in his swing and regain all the weight he lost, and we're still calling him a "Lazy primadonna"? Whether he is or isn't I don't know, I've never met him. Just offering up another theory based on some of the rumors and inuendo that are out there.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 08:00 AM) If he's lazy, it's absolutly unacceptable. I'm not sure what kind of team you'd like to see us build -- but a CF who has NEVER prooven himself in the majors has ZERO room to be lazy, EVER. There is no excuse or arguement you can counter that on, either...so please, do not bother. If you'd like to build a team of lazy stars...move north. Herb Brooks, the coach of the amazing 1980 USA Olympic Hockey team said it best, "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm lookin' for the right ones." If Brian Anderson is going to be lazy, and not take his job seriously -- no matter how good he CAN be or IS defensivly -- he doesn't belong on this team. 100% agree. I think Ozzie actually want this guy to succed and not handing him the starting job is probably the best thing for him. If BA actually is a lazy primadonna he needs a kick in the ass to realize that he needs to work to get the starting job and I think that is what Ozzie is doing.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 11:48 AM) Meh. Whiners. If you don't want to read a thread, don't click on it. Wow...that's hard. Damn it is hard. I didn't want to read this, yet here I am and I have no idea how it happened.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) So why the Hell can't he give Brian Anderson the same treatment, and actually use Erstad as the backup OF he should be used as. There could me a million reasons why. There has been rumors that BA has been more concerned with living the high life than with working hard. Maybe this is all true and Ozzie doesn't want to reward that behavior with a starting job. Maybe some of the hard working veterans on the team feel this way too and would be pissed if he was starting. Maybe they feel temoprarily shipping him back to the minors would be the kick in the ass they feel he needs.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 10:57 AM) They weren't established veterans with years of service, but they were in fact the established starters at their respective positions. They didn't have to win the job. So because Ozzie didn't come to the Sox his first year as a manager, and dump the third basemen the team had been grooming and the shortstop they acquired, is your argument that he likes young players??? I'm not on either side in this "young player" arguement, but this is kind of a stretch. My only arugment is Brian should be the starting CF. I can give a s*** if he is young old or whatever. I don't know Ozzies reasons so I won't pretend to, but if BA is in the minors this season...our D is in trouble. Back up the Bus. I never said Ozzie likes young players. I was just trying to show that some young players have been given a chance under his watch. I really don't believe that Ozzie dislikes BA because he is young. I think he dislikes him because he believes he is lazy and doesn't or didn't want to put in the work to improve. Weather or not BA actually is this way or not I do not know but that is how the situation looks to me.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 10:28 AM) For all 3 cases, I would LOVE for you to tell me the other options Ozzie had at the time. I am sure some veteran off the scrap heap could have been found. After all Ozzie would surely play any veteran over any young player. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Uribe had almost 600ABs for Colorado in 2002, so he wasnt exactly a rookie. That's why I said second full season. He was hardly a Veteran.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 10:26 AM) Joe and Juan are veterans. Why don't you site Jim Thome as an example while you're at it. Both Crede and Uribe were playing their second full season's in Ozzie's first year as Manager. Hardly Veterans yet both were given chances to play everyday.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) Ryan Sweeney has 35 AB's in the majors Garland had 569 major league innings logged when Ozzie got here. He was young, but a veteran. Danks has never logged a major league inning. Logan was up here because are other options sucked. And he didn't last long. If your going to defend Ozzie, fine. But at least use better examples. Bobby Jenks Joe Crede Juan Uribe