sox1844

Simply put, I think Ozzie's management style works for maybe 2% of the team. I think the reason we suck and are giving up is that no one believes his "Blame Me" speeches and no one is motivated to play for him. If he cared for his players, he'd shut his mouth and let them play instead of making them walk on eggshells being afraid of what he's going to say about them in the media. I think he sucks the life out of the team every year. If they win, its in spite of him... not because of him.

We'll see what happens. My money is on more Sox getting hit... Ozzie needs to shut up and just play the game. Ugh, enough already. So tired of his nonstop blabbering. Why contradict yourself? Either they're hitting you on purpose, or not. Why would you retaliate if YOU are saying you know it wasn't intentional? So dumb.

I feel kinda bad for the guy, but at the same time he has to realize where he's playing and that we are the kind of fans that love you when you're hot and hate you when you're cold... usually just best to keep your mouth shut. At this point I'm just wondering what real effect our media issues and org issues are having on us signing good players.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 25, 2009 -> 10:23 PM) It would be hard to see Ozzie as a raging idiot when 90% or more of the time he's either laughing, cracking jokes, or throwing sunflower seeds at someone. The national media types characterize Ozzie as a violent, angry, gay-bashing loose cannon. The reason? Unless Ozzie attracts attention by saying and doing controversial things, none of them pay attention. As for how we would know that veterans are telling the truth when they say they like Ozzie, consider this: At time, Garland, Contreras, Buehrle, Dye, and AJ re-signed with the Sox, avoiding free agency where they clearly would have bolted had they not wanted to play for Ozzie. Jim Thome and Javy Vazquez waived NTC clauses to come here, despite Ozzie's reputation in national media. Paulie left more money and a better climate on the table in order to return and play for Ozzie. Willie Harris, OC, and Swisher were the only players I can think of that had a problem with Ozzie. There was the Maggs issue, but Ozzie started that by attacking Maggs for his comments about JR. If there was a real problem, chances are we'd have seen or heard about a Toronto-style blow-up at some point. I don't know... just by talking to other fans, listening to different media outlets, I just get the impression that Ozzie is an absolute clown, the total laughingstock of baseball. I mean, I'm just wondering what the feeling is inside the business rather than just fans. I was just wondering if you actually knew of any player who openly loves Ozzie, rather than just NOT bashing him. Know what I'm saying? You just never know the inside stories ... I just wonder if Ozzie wasn't at the helm if we would have had a better chance at Peavy.

I have a serious question.... how do you know about how vets feel about Ozzie? Just because a guy shuts up and gets paid, does not mean he loves Ozzie. It doesn't even mean he likes Ozzie, or respects him even a tiny bit. Have you ever bit your tongue around your boss?? Thought he was a raging idiot, but said nothing because you didn't want to make trouble? Hmm.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 24, 2009 -> 11:27 PM) No kidding. I love these lines... Yeah, Ozzie has a really difficult time getting along with veterans who didn't come up through the Sox organization, as evidenced by Jim Thome, Freddy Garcia, Jermaine Dye, A.J. Pierzynski, and Ken Griffey, Jr. They all hate Ozzie. And the Sox are really paying for dealing young "talent" like Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, Brandon McCarthy, and Gio Gonzalez for proven veteran talent. Good job with the research there, junior. Right, the pennant race. Because the same organizations that tried to trade for Peavy and failed this past winter - and already spent their money elsewhere - are now going to pick up Peavy's $22 million option IN ADDITION to the $50-some million he's contractually owed - in the middle of a really bad recession, where the vast majority of GMs are hesitant to spend. Gotcha. And Peavy is apparently refusing to play in the AL, cutting the list of possible suitors in half. And the only team that he's actually shown interest in playing for is in bankruptcy court and can't pick up his contract. Yeah, I'm sure that Peavy will be joining that pennant race in no time. It's much more likely that Peavy will sit in his brand new home in sunny San Diego for the remainder of the year and wait for a better situation to open up this winter. This quote was also entertaining... I'll give him that the Sox appear to be in bad shape this year, but how are the Padres and Sox on the same level as an organization? The Padres lost 99 games last year and are looking to shed payroll. Their market is also dominated by two much better franchises who have actually won championships. "Equally horrifying," my ass. The Padres are a third-tier organization. I actually agree with this guy's assessment that the Sox are not the ideal situation for Peavy. But his reasoning is completely retarded.

OK, but being traded in the last year of a contract is not uncommon. And signing with a different team during free agency is not uncommon either. I guess I see it differently when a guy gets traded in the first year of a 4 year deal, rather than in the last year. I agree about shreds of truth being behind all this, I just find it hard to trust rumors when there are conflicting stories. All year Cowley made it look like Ozzie and Cora hated OC, now Ozzie and Joey are coming out saying they had no problems with him/wouldn't have won without him. At spring training you see him hugging all his ex-teammates, so it makes you wonder who was really at odds- OC and the org. or OC and Cowley. Whatever, either way it doesn't matter now.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Mar 28, 2009 -> 10:59 AM) It seems OC is a good teammate, but bumped heads with a couple people in the organization and once the media heard a peep they wrote articles solely on him being a cancer. That is one reason KW always says he looks for people that can fit in the club, but can also handle the Chicago media. Maybe if he was with the team for more than one season people would have seen he wasn't a cancer. What I don't understand is that Ozzie has since said he had no problem with him last year and that we wouldn't have won without him, Joey Cora as well. Also Dotel said he was a great teammate and a great friend. But why didn't one guy say that last year when he was getting ripped all year long? What I want to see is WHICH player had these problems with him. Seems like someone was either talking smack behind OC's back, or Cowley made it all up because he hated him. I hate it when its all rumors and no one comes out and says it directly especially when its Cowley, citing a "source" I think this guy played as hard as he could for us, ended up having a decent year, and I appreciate that. And what do you mean about playing more than one season on one team? He was with Montreal for 6 years, traded to Boston in the last year of his contract. Got the best offer from the Angels at 4 years when Boston wanted to give 2. Played 3 seasons with LAA, and got traded in the last year to the WS b/c Angels had a ton of young guys at SS and needed pitching. Turned down arb and signed with Oakland. I don't see the drama.... so many guys have bounced around so much more. Look at Renteria!

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 17, 2008 -> 07:03 PM) Man, some of you guys are just ridiculous about your hatred for OC. Ridiculous doesn't even BEGIN to describe it! So Joe Cowley and Ozzie Guillen don't like a guy. For me, thats not saying much. People keep saying he screwed us again, that is so dumb it hurts. He played hard and he played solid. Who cares about the rest? Just worry about the draft picks.

Thats awesome. I guess OC had more fans than everyone thought!

I'm baffled by people saying that stealing 19 bases is meaningless. Imagine if just 4 or 5 of our guys could take 19 extra bases/year. Some of those are eventually going to translate to runs. Unfortunately we have the slowest team on earth. You'd be calling him a hero if those steals meant something, just because they didn't doesn't mean every player shouldnt try to get in better scoring position EVERY time.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 08:09 PM) Well, when Swisher was hitting leadoff top start the season, Ocab appeared as if he didn't want to be there. He sucked right along with Swisher, and the visible effort was lacking. Late summer for a few weeks he really seemed like he was playing hard, and the effort WAS there, even if the reults weren't. But that didn't last long. I would have to say that his 'passion' was severly lacking in a majority of those 161 games. Not what I would expect from a supposed top shortstop, especially playing in a contract year. You can give him credit, I will give him blame, and we'll just have to agree to differ there. No worries. Agree to disagree. I'm just saying there has to be an adjustment period where you're hitting at the least popular spot in the line-up that you've never hit at before. Have to give him some credit for starting slow, and pulling himself up to .281, the same BA as A.J. Don't hear anyone saying A.J. had a bad year. He hit above all his career averages. You can't sign (or trade for a guy) and expect better than that. I'm one of those people who don't care about the lovey dovey stuff. Holding hands and being friends. I want to see the Sox win games. Don't care much about anything else.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 07:41 PM) I'm not too familiar with how arbitration works, but would an arbitor really be naive enough think that the GG voting has any accuracy toward a player's defensive skills? I would hope not, but yeah I'm sure you're right Caulfield that Lozano would try to claim that means anything. OK, reality is that baseball players play and sign for MONEY. This is their job.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 06:55 PM) [/b] Too bad it took him a whole year to do that and show any fire at all. Keep in mind that he was hitting in the LEAD OFF role!!?? He had a great season (above his career averages) considering the shizz he was going through in Chicago. I give him major credit. He's a passionate player who loves the game. He played 161 GAMES!! I will miss him either way.

Shocked that Ozzie has rational responses!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) I didn't know that would influence KW's decision. Thanks for the insight. The only thing I've criticized is offering arbitration if you aren't prepared to have him come back. Obviously, its still possible he will. Ozzie doesn't seem to mind if he does. Thats true, but I think the problem most people have is that he seems like he's egging OC on, rather than just being classy and hoping he denys arb. The ridiculous comments are just stupid and useless. If you offer arbitration, the downside is you have to be prepared for the player to accept. And you certainly can't fault a guy for considering it. Obviously he had to offer, but his comments aren't helping the White Sox. Kenny is acting like a child. No way you bench OC.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 06:53 AM) I sortof liked the move, at the time, but realized right away that if he didn't get a hit out of it, or at least a walk, he would have looked like a fool on national TV. He turned out to be a fool. I liked it. At least it was something! Some life, some passion. Plus Balfour kept yelling F-U to Uribe, and OC was over it. Who cares if he looked like a fool. I'd rather look like a fool who goes down fighting than a fool who just stands by while his team gets destroyed.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:56 PM) Yes. I'm being very logical. The point you are missing is he made Cabrera less attractive on the open market by offering arbitration. A typical bench player isn't worth the draft picks let alone the 8 figure salary. Then trying to intimidate or suggest he not accept the offer, and that if he did, he would be on the bench. For a team that supposedly is at its payroll threshold now, per KW, it makes zero sense to have an $11-12 million player riding pine. The greivance I believe wouldn't be so much about riding pine as much as the comments made. Trying to influence a decision and a right through scare tactics. I really don't hate KW. II just don't drink his kool-aid with every meal. Good post. I agree 100%. I mean no matter who you are, if its a bad economy and you're looking at 10-11 mill guaranteed for 1 year, you have to at least THINK about it right? And you're less attractive b/c of losing a pick. I don't see why KW would make it seem like a challenge for OC to accept. I think that again Kenny's massive ego is getting in the way of making good decisions. Obviously he'd try to trade OC right away if he did accept, but either way. HE was the one who offered arbitration, now he's going to bench a great (expensive) player out of SPITE it he accepts? GROW UP. It reminds me of the Seinfeld when Jerry trys to return a $600 jacket out of spite.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 04:56 AM) How in the world was his defense consistent with his career averages? He won gold gloves before, and this was obviously not a gold glove award season. Shouldn't we expect more than slightly above career averages (which aren't that good aside from BA, which isn't that important for a leadoff man) when trading away one of our starters and paying the guy $10 million? Whatever happened to Cabrera being the infield defense leader? He won 2 gold gloves in a 10 year career. Not to mention, he played 160 games for the White Sox, so he was out there almost every single day. And he's NOT a lead off hitter! He's never lead off, and he did the best he could. His numbers defensively were average. I don't know how many games you watch, but I saw him moving the infield on almost every play. He had a rookie playing 2b on one side and Uribe for most of the year at 3b, neither in their natural position. If thats not infield leadership, I dont' know what is. No one wants to mention that Joe Crede had like 20 errors in the half season he played.

QUOTE (CQMVP @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 02:58 PM) No, I think most people are sour on OC because he's EXTREMELY overrated. His clutch hitting is atrocious, his playoff numbers are bad, and his defense isn't even GOOD. He's an AVERAGE SS. We did NOT see a gold glove SS this year. Far from it, actually. He's also a "me first" type of player, which doesn't help the matter. OK dear, hate to shut you down here, but really? How is a guy OVERRATED when he hits above his career averages? Above?? Check the stats. And plays D consistent with is career averages? This is a case of a guy playing exactly to his expectations, and if you were surprised, then you were misinformed my friend. You didn't do your homework. You can't ask a player to do more than that on any given year. You certainly didn't ask Swisher to, and you all still love him.

OK, just for fun... seriously? Furcal is like a million years old and has a busted back. BUSTED. Who wants to pay a guy with no guarantee he can play 160, or even 100, or even 50 games??! Just because he's trying to make a push right now to look like he's all set, he hasn't proven anything. I don't buy it.

QUOTE (Steff @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) I'd love to hear from those people. No one I know feels that way. Especially JD. Right on Steff. I hate it when people say things like that and don't back it up. From everything I've seen, his teammates love him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:05 PM) He was brought in for situational hitting and clubhouse leadership. I think we can all agree he didn't live up to expectations there. Um, I think he was brought in for more than those 2 things. And you can't really speak on clubhouse leadership can you? From where I'm sitting, what I hear and what I see are two totally opposite things, I tend to believe my eyes more than what I hear from losers like Cowley.

I don't get what the big deal is. OC played to his career averages, and we had a much better year than anyone expected. Good deal. Lets move on.

So enlighten us oh Great One.... whats the inside info?