Chicago White Sox

Excited to hear that Sheets is regularly getting loft on the ball and the source isn’t Merkin.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 05:24 PM) My friends who are die-hard fans do not. Yeah my friends and wife (all die-hards) act as if he never existed.

As much as I’d love to add Yelich, I can’t see us paying what would certainly be a steep price for him right now.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 11:31 AM) Or Aroldis Chapman. The weird thing about the Sammy stuff is that Ricketts seems to be the only one who gives a s***. And he didn't even own the team then. The fans want him back, nobody feels betrayed by any steroid use. Say what you want, but those were fun times while it was going on and those guys were just clobbering baseballs. There's nothing for him to apologize for, just a weird grudge Ricketts is holding onto. Cubs fans want Sosa back? That’s news to me.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 03:04 PM) It would be interesting to hear what it really means for our 15-30 to be weak (and I don't disagree with this, compared to pads/braves/etc). I actually think that group has a good chance to have some MLB productivity compared to others. I also don't know if i have a list, but that 15-30 will contain players such as Cordell, Tilson, Fisher, Call, Zevala, Clarkin, Burdi, Burr, Thiera. What sticks out: they are old and nearer their ceilings. And to me the difference is the other 15-30s have players more like Luis Curbelo and Adolfo that are young and raw but expected to ascend and be the next top 10. "Deeper". The white sox have one huge glut of age groups moving in at once. So that's my interpretation would like to hear others. I think you hit it on the head. I wouldn't call our 16 to 30 weak, but I would definitely say it lacks the upside that other high end systems have. I think the two biggest factors driving that is our general reluctance to draft high school kids and not seeing a ton of progress (so far) with our LatAm signings. If you follow our minor league system closely, our lower level full season clubs are routinely filled with college draft picks that are probably a year or two or old simply because we don't have enough young guys pushing for those roles. To your point, we need more guys like Luis Curbelo & Amado Nunez in the system, where if everything suddenly clicks (even if that's unlikely) you have top 100 prospect upside.

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Jan 15, 2018 -> 03:54 PM) The bigger question is what to do with Avi......Market seems bad for everyone, especially guys with 2 years of control or less left. I really don't think there is room for him in our future outfield. Sox don't have anyone with any sort of potential for future relevance to play CF in the Majors this year unless you think Engel may be able to hit...I don't. If they could get either Tapia or Dahl from Colorado plus a couple fliers I think I'd take it at this point, but I doubt Colorado would part with either of them. Do you trust Avi to have another good season? I don't so that is why I feel this is a dilemma. If the return isn’t there, then we have no choice but holding onto Avi. While I’m not as optimistic as others in believing that he’ll suddenly figure out how to loft the ball, I’m willing to find out if I don’t get back at least one pretty good prospect for him.

One of the better football games I’ve seen in recent memory.

I still don’t see how the Cubs will be successful on their own. They don’t have nearly the historical significance of the Yankees and even the YES Network has the Nets during the off-season. I think if the Cubs were smart they’d partner with the Blackhawks.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2018 -> 11:16 AM) He has been around for 6 years. I once read where the average DR prospect takes at least 7 years to develop, so at the very least, he isn't ahead of the curve, To be fair he took over an operation that was probably as low as you can go. I thin he has a couple more years at least before you can say he failed though. Some of these guys have to develop. But it is hard to pick out a 15 or 16 year old and say future star major leaguer. It's hard in any sport. I would imagine basketball would be the easiest. Lebron is a no brainer, but take these guys when they are sophomores and juniors in high school and project them in one of the hardest if not the hardest sport to project, is something where everyone fails. If the Sox didn't trade for Shields and all things remained the same, this thread probably does not exist. I do now at one of the seminars I was at during Soxfest last year, they were really projecting a Lat Am breakout in 2017. I don't think it happened to the scale they were hoping, maybe this year, but their development staff seemed pretty confident their LatAm signings would soon become household names to White Sox fans. To me it’s not about a failure to sign a future star, but the fact that Paddy’s signings aren’t even developing enough to crack our top 30. I haven’t really seen a reason for optimism unless you really believe in last year’s class. I hope I’m wrong and we start seeing some of these guys finally make an impact in full season ball. I just don’t think we’ll be able maintain a reasonably strong system long-run unless we see massive improvement in our LatAm development.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 14, 2018 -> 09:28 AM) Those orgs (add Rangers and Padres) use international signings as a 2nd draft. The Sox really haven't for the most part, which has contributed to a lackluster farm over the years. That said, don't forget Robert....he's basically the equivalent of an entire round of signings (maybe 2). Whether that's the best use of assets remains to be seen. But they did use the international market. The Sox have been spending their bonus pool money for the most part since Paddy joined the organization. Sure, they haven’t gone into the penalty prior to Robert, but they have signed a ton of guys and very few have “worked out”. I can’t believe there is another organization with only 2 to 3 LatAm signings in their top 30 prospect list other than maybe the Orioles. We’ve given Paddy seven full years and I’m not seeing the transformation I was expecting. I think a case be made that it isn’t a scouting issue and more of a development one, which would suggest reasons for optimism with Getz in charge. Having said, I turn back to the Franklin Reyes signing. He was our biggest get in his class (dollars wise) and he almost immediately had to be moved to 1B as a 17 year old. That’s pretty pathetic IMO and supports the notion Paddy may not be as good of a scout as we were all hoping. And while Paddy most definitely deserves credit for signing Tatis, did Hahn talk to him at all about including him in the Shields trade? If so, did Paddy have any inkling of what we might of had in this kid? Again, just another question mark that gives me cause for concern. And one last point, but what LatAm signings do we think might jump to Kannapolis next year? I’m sure there will be a reliever or two, but after that who else might make the jump? Carlos Perez probably. Maybe Nunez? Will they rush Reyes, Sosa, Beltre, or Coronado? Again, where is the progress?

So I’m not sure if this will be a popular opinion, but I’m going to say it anyways. Marco Paddy has failed to live up to expectations. For years we said we had to give him more and more time to evaluate his performance given the age of the players he’d be signing. It’s now been seven full years with him in charge of our international operations and I’m still waiting to see his impact in full season ball. In fact, I’m struggling to identify how many of his guys have even made it to full season ball, let alone have been successful. I don’t believe a single signing has reached AA with the exception of the one traced for James Shields (not Paddy’s fault there obviously). That’s pretty damn sad if true. One of his first signings is Luis Martinez and while he’s flashed at times, he has not been able to get over the high A hump. Other early signings that ultimately fizzled out in A ball were Johan Cruz & Antonio Rodriguez. I can’t really think of many other signings from those first few classes to really do much of anything, although I’m sure I’m missing a couple. Obviously Adolfo has real promise, but when compared to his peers in Eloy Jimenez & Gleybar Torres, he’s way behind the development curve (partly due to injuries admittedly). But he’s just one guy (and probably our most prolific signing) and that’s kind of the point. Is there even one other LatAm signing not named Luis Robert that would be a clear top 30 prospect at this point? The closest IMO would be Amado Nunez and he’s very debatable. To me that’s clear evidence the program has been an object failure. So to avoid the TLDR posts, I’m greatly concerned these failures will impact our rebuild in the long-run unless we see sudden & vast improvements. Teams like the Cubs, Yankees, & Astros have been successful because they’ve been able to use their LatAm signings to fill holes & maintain their winning ways. Will be able to do the same without the prospect depth these LatAm signings are supposed to provide? What say you soxtalk?

I don’t like people referring to J.D. Martinez as simply a “1B/DH” type, as if he’s exchangeable with these other scrubs. The dude is a top 5 to 10 hitter in all of baseball. He’d instantly transform our lineup into one of the better ones in the AL. Again, if the market is so suppressed this year that the best he can do is say 5/$125M come spring training, I’d be 100% willing to do that deal. I most definitely think someone gives him closer to 6/$180M before it’s all said & done though.

Pirates really are a disaster. Shouldn’t have picked a clear direction a few years ago instead of playing the middle.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 09:43 AM) It will probably be James Shields but it should be Giolito or Lopez. Shields has no future here. His stuff is gone. He throws 89 MPH meatballs. I don’t agree on Giolito & Lopez. Let one of those guys earn a 2019 opening day nod with a strong 2018 performance. It should be a reward for young players that put it all together. Furthermore, I don’t want either of these kids lining up against the #1 & #2 starters to start the season, regardless of how long that lasts. Let them start off against pitchers more their speed while working through the growing pains of becoming a quality major league pitcher.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 12, 2018 -> 08:33 PM) He supposedly has 5/150 waiting for him but doesn't want it. The guy hit 45 HR's in just 119 games. That's a ton of HR's. Him at the GRate would be perfect. Too bad it's doubtful the Sox would really be interested unless that 5/150 is BS . For that kind of power the "where would he play" question shouldn't matter even with Eloy on the horizon. I agree. Could you imagine a 3-4-5 of Abreu-Martinez-Jimenez? That’s 100+ HRs easy at the Cell.

100% depends on the price/years. Martinez has pretty much been David Ortiz lite the last few years. If I can get him at a huge discount (which still seems unlikely IMO), I’m not against signing a guy like him a year early. The DH factor doesn’t really matter to me honestly. He was a top three hitter in baseball last year, don’t really care if he plays the field or not, he’d be an absolute weapon in the middle of our lineup.

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Jan 12, 2018 -> 11:53 AM) The only reason I can think you would start him in A+ is that Kannapolis has too many OFs that need to be there and Robert also destroys spring training. Even then I might rather send someone else to a higher level before they're ready and still put Robert in Kannapolis. We should start him lower and let him prove it at each level before moving him up. Robert is our #1 OF prospect, so you play him where you need to and adjust the lesser prospects accordingly.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 12, 2018 -> 09:44 AM) That's why I think this really is more of an eat some innings than flip candidate. Like you said, he isn't going to be worth much more than he was when they traded him when he was on a roll, and he netted a 21 year old with a .588 OPS in high A. I would think if you wanted to just buy him from Texas, it wouldn't cost you anywhere near what Gonzalez will be paid. So he must be a good influence, and the probably hope he can eat some innings. This is 100% about getting a guy who can eat some innings and prevent us from having to rush up any of our arms in AAA. Having said that, the cost is low enough that he won’t be blocking anyone if we need to open a spot.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 11, 2018 -> 01:32 PM) Great article. I think you nailed it, though I'd probably lean toward putting Robert on the EST/Rookie Ball track That’s absolutely nuts IMO. Isn’t the Cuban League considered to be the equivalent of High A? I think Robert should start in Kannapolis and move up after a month or so. There’s no good reason to be overly conservative with his development.

I really want to see what we have in Giolito & Lopez before I consider any of other pitching prospects expandable.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 10, 2018 -> 07:41 AM) He kept mentioning them. I have told you, his past history, his age, I have watched him, I think strikeouts have jaded his advanced numbers, Javy Vazquez style, and his projections. I have written it several times. But just think about it, his FIP and xFIP were good in 2017, better than in years. Why wasn't he worth anything in the trade market? If these are signs he is a top 25 reliever, why did KC have to include cash and one of their best relievers team controlled for 5 seasons to get rid of him? And why, if he put up the exact same xFIP and FIP the first half of 2018, which no one would actually wager anything although they keep saying its' the best measure of what he will be, would he be worth considerably more than he is now with these numbers? I think he sucks, you think he's an asset. Fine. I don't know why it bothers so many. You can tell me my reasons are stupid, that's fine too. I think pulling a xFIP at an age 33 season which was significantly better than any xFIP he put up in years is also stupid to use for projection. We'll see. I hope you're right. I still don’t agree with this “sucks” notion, at least when it comes to 2017. WAR isn’t a great way to evaluate relievers, but it still shows he wasn’t horrible at the very least. I think his peripherals & velocity last year show a chance of him becoming an asset. There are no guarantees and some of the facts you’ve brought up (age, injury history, etc) lately demonstrate why things may not work out for him next year. But I definitely think if his heathy & velocity holds, again both question marks, that he could actually become a valuable trade chip. I like his addition because he has more upside potential IMO than most pickups of this type. As for why other teams didn’t trade for him, I can’t answer that. But Rosenthal clearly stated other teams were interested in him for the very reasons I stated above. Could just be that we finally ran out of teams willing to pay a guy like him $7M after so many relievers got huge deals this winter. Or maybe contenders simply wanted more certainty at that price point. Luckily for us we can roll the dice on him and hope he can flash a portion of what he once was for three or four months next year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 10, 2018 -> 05:33 AM) I have given you reasons. You chose to ignore them, because they don't line up with your end all FIP and xFIP. We will find out in a couple of months. I mean, I don’t always agree with eminor3rd, but it’s pretty insane you keep repeating the bolded comment above. He has explicitly stated to you multiple times that those metrics aren’t the be all end all. And quite frankly, you really hadn’t given any reasons other than “he sucks” for the vast majority of this thread. That’s the reason why people were giving you s*** about this.

QUOTE (KnightsOnMintSt @ Jan 9, 2018 -> 09:48 AM) Anyone here live in the area? The Dash could be a really fun team to watch this season. Have the potential to have Robert, Burger, Sheets, Basabe, Adolfo, Rutherford, Cease, Skoug, Fisher, and Call all at the same time this season. I don’t think all those OFs will be on the team at the same time, but they should be very exciting to follow.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 9, 2018 -> 07:12 AM) Some players just scar fan bases from suckitude, good peripherals or not. Soria did enough stinkin to make the KC fans glad he’s gone. Off the top of my head I equate the feeling KC fans had when Soria was coming in to Linestink. Sure Soria’s peripherals may suggest one thing. Thousands of KC fans glad he’s gone suggests differently. I think both are equally valid as data to form an opinion of the trade. The Royals have also had one of the most dominant bullpens in recent memory, so I’m not exactly sure if they can be objective on what bad really is. Look, I’m not even making the argument that he was good, but saying he sucks seems disingenuous based on all available data and seems to be nothing more than an emotional overreaction by fanbase that has only known great as of late. And I still don’t see where Dick is coming up with his opinion from.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 8, 2018 -> 10:52 PM) Flores, Luis Gonzalez and Seby Zavala, I think Polo could become a De Aza like player which would be great. Sounds like Flores’ velocity dropped quite a bit this year.