Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:26 PM) If it is about forming bonds, and not all about money, how come he isn't signing with Baltimore Because Baltimore can’t afford to pay him market after blowing their wad on Chris Davis. Why is this so difficult?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:50 PM) Saw that post and same guy mentioned Giolito AND Lopez That would never happen and would be the single dumbest trade in baseball history. The whole point of this idea is to have a team that is ready to compete in 2019. If you trade both Giolito & Lopez, you’re not going to have a playoff caliber rotation in place.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:26 PM) I read a blog where the guy said a fair price would be Hansen, Fulmer, and Burger. To me, that seems about right. A top 100, a guy who struggled, and a relative unknown. What type of monetary value would you put on that package? If the Dodgers had the Sox farm system, would you take those 3 to take all of Matt Kemp's money? If so, the price to acquire Machado to get him to love the culture, with his salary, would approach $60 million. Would just outbidding everyone by $60 million work better, and keep the prospects? I If they give up those three guys it’s a terrible trade IMO. Hansen should not be a part of these discussions. And for the millionth time, it’s not just about the “culture” as you conveniently call it to mock the idea. It’s about him forming a bond with the players & coaches and generally becoming comfortable with the organization. Have you ever formed bonds with coworkers? Have you ever enjoyed working at a certain company? It’s amazing to me how foreign of a concept this is to you. No doubt money talks, but all along we have said over & over again the money has to be there too or this is all for naught. And how does your idea of using projected surplus value as part of our bid work exactly? Surplus value is all based on opportunity cost of NOT having to pay market rate for production. How are you turning these three prospects into actual cash flow? And what happens if they bust?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:58 PM) The problem you have here is not only Machado one of the best players in the game, he is also a franchise icon. A trade that basically looks like a salary dump isn't happening which is why the White Sox interest is curious and ridiculous. This is a fair point, but again we’re talking the Orioles. And as good of a player as Machado is, I just don’t see teams offering up huge prospects for him given his one year of control. I honestly can’t figure out what teams make sense. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still nervous as hell though. The fact we’re supposedly in the lead generally makes me uneasy without knowing exactly how big of an offer we’ve actually made.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) I think Angelos is passing on a good opportunity to exploit the Yanks. If Angelos expects Machado to sign with the Yanks next year anyway, then why not take advantage of a chance to get something from the Yanks this year? I would tell the Yanks that if they really want Machado, discussions begin with Torres. With so many bidders ( up to ten ) the Orioles are in a great spot to drive the price up on the Yanks to see just how desperate they are for Machado. I don’t disagree with your logic, but I just don’t see the Yankees ever being that desperate to land Machado now. Torres is an integral piece to their future given how cheap he’ll be.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:54 PM) Duquette isn't an idiot. He knows he could get a better prospect than Cease at the deadline. Also, for some reason I don't think Angelos would be a fan of Cease's medical history. Duquette isn’t, but what about the Angelos family? Most other organizations I’d agree with, but this is the Orioles we’re talking about. They have a funny/unique way of doing things.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:35 PM) Supposedly ten offers have been made. I'm sure at least one team can offer better than a top 90-100 pitching prospect and a mid-level prospect. Come on fathom, who would have leaked the “ten teams have made offers” nugget? It’s obviously coming from the Orioles and they have every reason to make it look like there is a ton of interest. If you actually believe this rumor, then name some of the teams that might have made offers. As for the price, I would have thought Ozuna would have landed at least one sure fire top 100 prospect and the best they got was a borderline guy. It really does seem like teams are saving their chips for more cost-controlled assets, which makes sense with the sheer number of teams rebuilding. Outside of aces & elite relievers, it feels like deadline costs have also dropped substantially. Just no reason to overpay for short-term assets when there are numerous sellers.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) Because a lot of teams could easily beat a Cease and Adams package. My guess is it's Lopez and Anderson. What teams have the need, the cash to make a quality contract offer, & the prospect currency to get a deal done? I’m being serious, I don’t really see that many teams that make sense. The Yankees may be the only AL team that meets all three criteria and Baltimore won’t deal with them. Who else from the NL makes sense beyond the Cardinals? I expect the Phillies to be involved, but they’re outliers just like us. I’m just not seeing the matches here.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:07 PM) Again, that would not be consistent with Hahn's assurances. That doesn't mean that it couldn't happen, but it would surprise and disappoint this fan. I’m not saying Hahn would or wouldn’t do that deal, I’m just saying that might be the lowest offer the Orioles accept from us. And I’m sure most people here would hate it and I wouldn’t blame them. I’d hate to lose a guy like Cease, but I also realize there is quite a road ahead to become a major league starter. I’d personally be pretty torn on that deal and I’m actually supportive of going after Machado at the right price.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:47 PM) If reports that the Orioles want a couple of Major League ready pitchers, are true, Cease doesn't qualify. He isn't expected to arrive until 2019. Moreover, he is MLB Pipeline's 5TH ranked Sox prospect, which would not be consistent with Hahn's repeated assurances that "nothing has changed in terms of what we are trying to accomplish. We're very interested in adding premium young talent to what we've already built, but at the same time we're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul, if that makes sense. We are headed towards a bright future. We want to make moves that are going to enhance that, not necessarily take away from it." Therefore, I don't see Hahn letting Cease go. It seems more likely that something like 2 of the following might work: Fulmer, Stevens or Adams. Even then, I would be reluctant to include Fulmer. Fulmer & one of Adams/Stephens for Machado would be the dream deal as it would leave us with all our high pitching prospects. Plus if we end up losing him in free agency, we’d get a comp pick that would greatly offset the overall cost. I just can’t see the Orioles doing that deal though. I think the best offer for us that maybe they’d accept would be Cease & Fulmer.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:37 PM) No. Some major leaguers may be included and it isn’t kopech mincada. That’s all we know. Where didn’t this major leaguer(s) rumor come from? Saw people mention it on the Orioles board, but I haven’t seen the source of it anywhere. If true, I think Fulmer is all but a certainty of being in the deal. Could see us trying to sell high on him after his five games to end the season. I can’t imagine moving another major league piece unless they’ve soured on Lopez and I’d hate to see that.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) "Giolito, Cease/Hansen , Burger, and Bummer....I think this is a package that gives the Os something to sell the fans" http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/ind...o/&page=116 Thought this was amusing. That's a package he would get with 5 years on his deal. I’ll say this much, if we end up doing a deal with the Orioles for Machado, one of the two fanbases is going to be really pissed. Anything that makes sense for us is going to feel light for them and vice verse. I don’t see possible deal that both sides feel good about. Also, props to Shack for trying to share some knowledge with the fans on that forum.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:20 PM) I read somewhere that Cafardo reported Sox offer was based off of current major leaguers. Don't quote me on that though. I still think the offer is way more than many think on here. Why do you think this?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 06:46 PM) Your right. That definitely wont work. Hell it's not even worth exploring. Good call. Remember, money is everything in life. If we offer even a dollar more than the competition he’s as good as ours. It’s foolproof!

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 10:43 AM) I don’t understand this criticism of Balt as unreasonable. For a 72 hr window to work there would have to be some inclination the player would do it and no word from Machados camp would indicate they will. I don’t know, I find it incredibly hard to believe he wouldn’t hear a team out at least. He and his agent may go in with absolutely no intention of actually considering the offer received, but it would certainly seem to provide a piece of intel on how at least one team values him. I do M&A for a living and there have been multiple times we knew a target didn’t make sense or wasn’t a real possibility, but decided to hear them out anyways to gain access to their financials & operating practices. Agreeing to a 72 hour window costs Machado nothing, but could ultimately prove to be very valuable in the long-run.

Very interesting to read what about Orioles fans expect to receive in return for Machado. A good chunk expect an Ozuna like package, which seem a little light to me. These fans typically believe they should have sold earlier on him and the return will reflect that of a one year rental. Others still believe they’ll get a four or five player package headlined by a couple stud prospects. When discussing the White Sox, these fans believe they’ll get Kopech or Giolito (or both) along with several more high-end prospects. Just reading through these desired packages makes me extremely nervous. I still believe the price will be closer to the Ozuna return than something that would gut the system, but what would that actually look like for us? I’m guessing that Baltimore would require something like Cease & Dunning and that’s honestly too much of a pill for me to swallow. That’s two top 100 caliber prospects and would really eat away at our starting pitching depth. Now, if they’d consider something like Fulmer & Adams/Stephens I’d be game, but that just seems too light to me. I’m still perplexed how we could possibly be in the lead without including a single top prospect.

What’s funny is if Baltimore really wanted to prevent Machado from going to the Yankees, they’d agree to a 72 hour window with us, the Cardinals, the Phillies, etc. Obviously it’s highly unlikely he’d agree to anything, but what if one of these teams offered him 10/$400M right now? This whole keep him from the Yankees priority is pretty stupid IMO. I get not trading him directly to them or allowing a team like us to spin him right away to them, but ultimately there is nothing they can do to prevent the Yankees from signing him next offseason. Might as well go the 72 hour route before proceeding down the path they’re already going down.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 12:21 AM) They’re gonna mess this up, aren’t they? NBA hell here we come!

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:10 PM)

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:39 PM) Yes Who?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 06:59 PM) Wat Lol

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:15 PM) Also anyone thinking the Sox can catch lightning in a bottle and make the playoffs is similiarly delusional. They need a bullpen badly and the starting pitching probably isn't up to snuff yet either. Has anyone actually said this?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:07 PM) WE have no idea if Michael Kay is doing anything except just assuming he wants to be a yankee because all yankees people think everyone wants to be a yankee. Lol...love this post and so damn true.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) Think of what the Sox had to give up for 1 year of Samardzija, and add some more. That is what their package must look like. Dick, I appreciate you as a fan & poster here. I think you know your s***. But right now, I think you’re arguing against no one. The debate isn’t whether or not the Orioles will take a moderate package from us, it’s whether or not we should do it. You’re probably right and ultimately someone offers up one pretty decent prospect to land Machado, but right now the rumor is we’re in the lead with a package that includes none of our top guys. If that’s the case, I have no problem with what Hahn is doing. If he gives up someone like Giolito, I’ll actually pretty be pissed. If he gives up Kopech, I’ll probably be posting from prison. I think most of us that are ok with potentially trading for Machado acknowledge that what we’d be ok with giving up more often than not wouldn’t be enough. But every once in a while the stars align a certain way where you get a guy for a sizable discount. And given we’re dealing with the Orioles, you simply never know. To me, it’s worth throwing our name in the hat and seeing if they bite on something unsubstantial.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) You increase your chances tenfold when you buy 10 powerball tickets, yet it still doesn't work out most of the time. Lol...if the odds of landing Machado is as good as winning the Powerball then the mods should just shut down this thread. But without using ridiculous exaggerations, let’s say we have a 10% chance of signing him next offseason if we’re willing to match his best offer. If having him on the roster for the 2018 season improves our chance to let’s say 50%, again assuming we’re willing to match his best offer, does that seem like a value add? Debate the percentages all you like, but him getting to our players & organization will likely improve our chances of landing him. How much you pay for that benefit is also a good question, but there is most certainly a price I’d pay for it regardless if the Orioles would accept it or not.