Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:46 AM) https://twitter.com/danclarksports/status/941278096354787328 Makes no sense. The Sox would never be able to trade with the Orioles again if they pulled a shady move like that. You’d basically need Torres & Frazier for this to make any sense for us, as you’d just be making the Yankees as even bigger behemoth. As surprising as it would be for us to acquire Machado, facilitating a trade to the Yankees is even more far-fetched IMO.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:32 AM) Agreed on the second part, but he’s the piece that gets this thing going. He’s the John Lester. He adds credibility, attracts other FAs, etc. QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:33 AM) I dunno guys. I’m just confused as to why so many of you think it would be such a foregone conclusion to sign this guy cold in FA. 100% agree with both points.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:19 AM) All I know is a guy who loved playing here and was beloved by fans, Paulie Konerko, checked out the open market. Why wouldn't Machado? It is going to happen anyway. I am a season ticket holder and prefer to attend games the Sox win. Machado, especially if he goes back to SS, has a chance to be the best player in baseball. So that would be good for me. Hahn was quoted as saying this was the tough part of the rebuild, and patience was the guy. They are doing the total opposite now. Obviously their dream was to add Machado. Keep the talent, and pay him more later. That is the patient thing to do. It is ridiculous to think he is giving them a discount. Where in the world do you get this discount idea from? They only acquire him if they’re committed to paying him market value.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:08 AM) You know who just did a lot to differentiate themselves in a marketplace? The mariners with ohtani. Shiotinbfg ourselves in the foot really badly here. How so? Like acquiring more cap space when money was never going to be the motivating factor? Regardless, I’m not sure how an Ohtani comparison applies here as that was such a unique free agent process.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:06 AM) But nobody knows what that market value is, not Machado, his agent, nor Harper or his agent. Do you know how you determine that market value? Competition. It he has held out this long, it makes zero sense to forgo the open market and sign a deal you hope is the most money. Again, this isn’t necessarily about signing him to an extension now. More likely it’s about giving us an edge when 10 teams all offer him the same basic contract next offseason give or take. If he enjoys his time here and we offer the same money as everyone else, we’d theoretically have an advantage. I’m pretty sure that’s the entire premise behind this type of deal. Obviously you’d still have 10 months to negotiate in the interim, but I think it’s all but a certainty Machado will test free agency to ensure market value.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:47 AM) Scott Merkin‏Verified account @scottmerkin 4m4 minutes ago More Manny Machado is an elite/high end talent who certainly can change a franchise. With that said, it's difficult to envision how the White Sox include Kopech or Giolito in any sort of potential trade and alter their strongly constructed rebuild course for one year of Machado. I take this as a good sign that these guys aren’t in the trade. Still don’t see how we have a “leading offer”’without one of Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, or Hansen in the mix. So question for Soxtalk, who would you rather give up as the centerpiece in a trade for Machado: Rodon, Lopez, or Hansen?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:44 AM) I think they have every intention of paying him commensurate with his market value. I just think they want a leg up in the competition, or more ideally, to avoid the competition entirely. Exactly. This “why not wait to free agency when it will cost you nothing but money” is great until you realize we have a 5 to 10% chance of signing him. I appreciate the fact the front office realizes they must differentiate themselves from teams like the Yankees & Dodgers if they want to stand a reasonable chance. Again, just depends on the price (i.e. not Kopech) and what else they can do in the next 12 months to convince him to stay here long-term. Certainly there is value in having the upper hand here and they shouldn’t be afraid to give that up to the Orioles.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:42 AM) According to the Athletic article they can have one of Giolito, Kopech but not both. This is pretty insane if it happens. I really don't know why they believe having him play there willl get him signed , and not lessens their chances. Money talks. If they think he will love,Ricky Renteria so much he will accept a lowball offer, they need to be replaced. If you are going to make,us,sit through a rebuild, follow.theough, and come up with an offer next winter. If they do this and it fails, heads should roll. Dick, the Sox only do this if they are willing to match any contract offer. Let’s just say that there are 10 teams all interested in signing the guy next offseason, including best-in-class, major market franchises like the Yankees & Dodgers. How do you convince Machado to sign with you instead of those clubs? If trading some assets improves your odds from

When does the Sox TV contract end? Don’t underestimate the value of adding a proven susperstar to a promising young core when negotiations begin.

Holy f*** I turned my phone off minutes before this all went down. I’m just going to say this. If Kopech is involved in the deal, I think it’s a huge mistake for us. He has the potential to be BETTER than Machado (I know, I know best case outcome) and will only cost pennies over his 6+ years of control. And more importantly, we’ll never have a better opportunity to develop or acquire a legitimate ace than with him. Giving him up would be one step forward, one step back long-term. Giolito is a little different of a story. I still wouldn’t be happy giving him up without an extension in place, but I’d be willing to give the front office the benefit of the doubt and see how their plan unfolds. I assume part of that plan includes keeping Abreu & Avi for the time being. Can’t really add Machado and then suddenly subtract your two best veterans. Would send a very negative message about when we expect to be competitive again. I also assume this plan includes adding a high profile veteran SP in free agency next year to replace Giolito. If so, there could be a larger strategy at play here and we’d need to see how it all lays out before saying trading Giolito was a mistake with any conviction.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:59 PM) BS? Thought Stanton just wouldn't move his NTC I’m talking about the players involved. Sounds like the return wasn’t nearly as good as originally reported.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:24 PM) That initial deal for Stanton looked pretty attractive SF also isn't rebuilding really I believe that rumored deal was proven to be BS.

Did Warren Sapp sexually assault Kris Jenkings or something? Otherwise, why is that comment in this thread.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:21 PM) Don't feel like they have the prospects to move But the Giants do?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:53 PM) I dont think people are saying Balt would want that, they are saying that is their tolerance. And I agree. Exactly, I’ve said multiple times I doubt they’d do it, but Rutherford is a polarizing enough of a prospect that you never know with an organization like the Orioles . Basically there is a small area of overlap between what I’d be willing to give up and what Baltimore might accept (again not likely) that it’s worth throwing out a token offer. I wouldn’t give up any of the numerous untouchables I listed earlier in this thread.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) Except the risk in this scenario is significant with a very real chance of just pissing away assets. If the Orioles agree to trade Manny in December it's going to cost very significant assets, not lesser prospects that we see as expendable all for the opportunity to hope Manny does the Sox a solid and limits his future earnings 2 months away from free agency because he really likes "Sox culture". It's in no way a risk worth taking. All depends on the price. I specifically mentioned Rutherford as the type of centerpiece I’d be willing to gamble on because I think we’d be willing to recoup most of that value back by the deadline. The difference I’m more than willing to forgoe if it gives me a slight advantage in free agency. Again, I doubt the Orioles accept a Rutherford + Adams package, but I can see the logic behind taking that risk if they would.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:34 PM) Why in the world would the Orioles want Rutherford for Machado? Am I missing something here? If this type of trade is available, why doesn't Hahn send Kevan Smith to Washington for Harper? Rutherford was a top 50 prospect as recently as last July. Not sure I get the comparison to Kevan Smith.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:25 PM) What's the point in adding him for one year when you aren't trying to compete? QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:25 PM) Unless the plan is to then flip Machado at the deadline to a team in contention this would be the dumbest move we could possibly make right now. Give him a taste of your organization for the first four months of the seasons. Try to convince him to sign an extension during that timeframe. If not, trade him at the deadline for what should be similar value but express the fact you’re going to do everything in your power to bring him back. To Rick’s point, sometimes you need to take a risk. If we’re prepared to offer as much as anyone else, getting him familiar with our team could be the diffence between him picking us and a team like the Yankees or Phillies.

Call me crazy, but I’d do Rutherford & an arm like Adams for Machado without an extension. Doesn’t seem like it would be enough, but maybe the Orioles are obsessed with Blake for some reason.

Sierra one of the other pieces in the Ozuna deal. Still not a great return IMO, but better than it initially sounded.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 03:53 PM) Henry SchulmanVerified account @hankschulman #sfgiants are listening to offers for their No. 2 slot in Thursday's Rule 5 draft. Usually those are swapped for cash. Giants have not decided to deal it or not. 1 reply 1 retweet 1 like James Fox‏ @JamesFox917 18m18 minutes ago I've heard that #WhiteSox have their eye on two players tomorrow. They could be in play here. Come on Yimmy, give us some names!

I thank the baseball gods everyday that we pulled the trigger on our rebuild when we did because we are now kicking it off with a f***ton of talent and should only endure two or three non-competitive seasons if things go as planned. The Marlins are easily looking at a 5 plus year rebuild based on what they got in their first three big trades. Rebuilding is always going to be far more risky/painful when relying on draft picks rather than semi-proven minor leaguers.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) I'll guess Jack Flaherty + Sandy Alcantara + Piscotty or Grichuk for Ozuna Hopefully that’s the case. The bigger the return the more hope I have we get something good back for Avi.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Or the fact that you have 4 spots filled in the rotation rght now and have rodon on the dl till he comes back plus 3 rookies in the rotation. QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) Wouldn't look too far into it Chief I'd like to sign Bucholz and Tillman and try and flip them in July You guys are missing my point. Chavez sucks, he’d simply be a placeholder. A guy like Tillman is a potential flip candidate, but will also cost more money. If you don’t think Kopech will be up until closer to the All-Star break or later, you probably invest in a guy you can flip. If you think he’ll be up by the end of May, you sign a place-holder like Chavez that can be cut when needed. To me, it’s blatantly obvious what this implies assuming the Chavez rumor is true.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) I don't know why I'm discussing this or anybody is because you simply do not trade four top prospects (even though I hate prospects) for Manny when he's a free agent in a year. It makes absolutely no sense as he's not going to sign with anybody before becoming a free agent and getting paid the maximum amount. The Sox can't win the pennant this season with Machado so it would be absurd to deal 4 propsects for a one-year player. That's why I say it's not worth discussing. If you must play fantasy baseball dream of next offseason and let the Sox try to get in the bidding war for Manny. Discussing things like this seem counterproductive. Sorry I elected to take part, but I won't post any more about Manny. It ain't happening just like Otani wasn't going to consider Chicago cause Chciago had no money to dangle to him. Who in the world “hates” prospects? What a bizarre (dumb?) statement...