Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:00 PM) I think you are overvaluing Frazier and/or undervaluing Sanchez. Frazier certainly has value but his stock is down a fair amount from last winter. After a hot start, he didn't play well in the bigs last year (negative WAR). With Sanchez, he has proven to be one of the premier defensive infielders in baseball and plays plus plus defense at 2b, SS, and 3b. If he continues to improve offensively he's a legit 3 WAR guy over a full season. I'd still make the trade if I'm the Sox because Frazier fits into the rebuild timeframe better and I think the Sox could afford to lose Fulmer but it's close IMO. First off, I’m not going to overreact to a player struggling in their first major league stint. Most prospects don’t get called up and go Aaron Judge from the get go. I still believe in Frazier’s tools and think he’ll be a solid starting OF at the very minimum. If it all clicks, the kid has star potential. As for Sanchez, I really do like the kid, but I don’t think he has that much untapped offensive upside left. I think he’s close to the player he’s going to become, which is a versatile, strong defender who is a near league average hitter. That’s a 2.5ish WAR player IMO and that’s great, but if I can turn that kind of player into a very talented major league ready prospect with star potential I’m most definitely doing it. Fulmer makes a potential trade a little more difficult, but I no longer see him as a starter and would ultimately be fine including him in a deal. I just don’t see the Yankees doing this type of trade however.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:54 PM) I wonder when the national media is gonna realize that the Sox only have like 13 cents in payroll with arguably baseballs best young class. I did read one article a month or so back that projected us to be one of the biggest players in next year’s free agent class, but otherwise these writers tend to forget about us it seems.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:04 PM) I'll just add, I think a lot of people forget Sanchez is only 25 since he's been around the big league club since 2014. Most hitters peak in their late 20s and he made great strides last year. I understand he doesn't have the prospect hype surrounding him like Frazier, but at worst he's an above average utility infielder. At best he's an above average starter. He has a lower ceiling than a guy like Frazier but also a higher floor imo. I don’t disagree with anything you say here, but I’d trade Sanchez & Fulmer any day of the week for Frazier. At this stage of the rebuild I’m looking for ceiling and Frazier has star potential if it all clicks.

QUOTE (pktmotion @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 10:28 PM) Wonder what key piece puts it over the edge for each team? Boston = Devers St. Louis = Reyes For Boston I need Bradley & Chavis (not happening). For St. Louis I need Kelly & Flaherty (not happening).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 10:36 PM) After they've both had injury riddled years? Yeah I'm comparing them. Is that upgrade worth 2 decent players? If Cordell, Sanchez, and Fulmer each turn out to be 2 WAR players, to balance that, Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player in 2020. That's the comparison. God I hate this sort of deal but I get it. We're trading 2 possibly decent players and giving up on a 3rd for this upgrade. This upgrade HAS to be worth it. Convince me that the injuries are nothing. Convince me that the Yankees just made a $50 million/2 year mistake. This is a rough case. I’m honestly for a loss of words. If we could get Frazier for Sanchez & Fulmer the deal would already be done. Cordell has zero impact on that. And WTF is this Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player nonsense? If Frazier is a 4 WAR player it’s a tremendous trade for us. If he’s a 3 WAR player it’s a still a win. And I have no idea was this $50M/2 year mistake is all about.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 09:20 PM) If Garcia was moved, I'd probably consider this, but gosh I want to see Cordell first. If scouts were ok moving Swarzak for him they thought there was value there. Man, maybe they say "F*** you Cordell was your mistake fix this now", but other than that...is Frazier that much better right now? Are you actually comparing Cordell & Frazier as prospects? I mean, I’m a big Cordell fan but Frazier is on another level.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:48 PM) I suspect they’d be happy to take any number of our assets off our hands for Frazier. If we offered a package of say, Dunning and Burdi, I’m pretty sure that deal gets done. There are any number of combinations that get it done, tbh. The White Sox would be one of the easier organizations to complete a deal with, IMO. I don’t think the Yankees accept that offer. They’re going to be looking for an arm that is close to major league ready.

I really don’t see a match here. Come July I want Delmonico & Jimenez in LF & RF on a daily basis. Plus we don’t have a major league ready arm that’s really expendable.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 03:51 PM) Baseball won't be like the NBA simply because of how random the playoffs are. In the NBA, the best teams almost always win their playoff series, which is how you get CLE vs GS 3 times in a row. In baseball, anyone can win a 7 game series, and that will mix up the finals and World Series winners. It also gives hope to lower level teams, just get in the dance and anything can happen. Baseball will never be like the NBA because it’s far easier to acquire star caliber talent and the fact that salaries aren’t capped removes the incentive for established stars to create superteams. Right now, we just have a lot of teams echoing what the Astros & Cubs successfully did. At some point in the near future some of these rebuilding clubs will join the upper ranks and create more parity across league. Things will never be as bad as the NBA.

Wow, I just saw the actual terms of the trade. What a horrific deal for the Marlins. They’re giving up $30M and the best prospect they get in return is Guzman. They should have waited and hoped Stanton would reconsider other teams eventually.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) The Yankees were on par with Cleveland and Houston last year, as shown in the playoffs. The real problem is can our rebuild get us past The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Indians, Astros. That's gonna be 5 really loaded teams. This is why it is important we have a relatively good season next year. If we look bad again we will not attract top FA's as they'd want to see some progress on the field. Great post. 100% agree. Also part of the reason I want to keep Abreu.

QUOTE (pktmotion @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:20 AM) Free Agents Hector Rondon Michael Pineda Jarrod Dyson Trades Abreu to STL for Carson Kelly, Jake Flaherty, Sandy Alcantara, & Jonathan Machado Garcia + Davidson to ARI for Pavin Smith & Anthony Banda Draft Nander De Sedas – SS Roll into the 2018 season with the best farm system in MLB – by a long shot – with strong competition in several key positions. Avi makes a ton of sense for AZ, just wonder if Smith is a little redundant with what already have in the system. I could see something built around Duplantier instead though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:12 AM) If the choice is "more dead police officers" or "More people killed by police officers", we need to be smart enough to find a third option. Your statement could be misinterpreted the same way as "you are quite literally advocating for more people murdered by police officers". I’m still trying to understand if you’re suggesting most police shootings are unwarranted because your use of the word “murder” certainly seems imply that.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 08:33 AM) Yolmer makes a lot of sense as a cheap 2b for Yankees to help out Torres He’d definitely make some for them, especially if Andujar is in the Stanton deal. Just don’t see the Yankees giving up the prospect currency is would take though. I still think Sanchez is a better match/fit for the Brewers.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 08:21 AM) Cubs just shredded their biggest competition for Bryce Harper Honest question, but can the Cubs actually add him and stay below the 2019 luxury tax threshold of $206M? The Cubs have nearly $100M committed to six players already (Lester, Quintana, Chatwood, Rizzo, Zobrist, Heyward). Bryant, Russell, & Hendricks will be in their second year of arbitration. Baez & Schwarber will be in their first year of arbitration. Let’s just hypothetically say those five guys earn a combined $40M. That basically puts them at $140M give or take for eleven guys. Even with Contreras & Happ still dirt cheap, they’d have roughly $67M to add Harper and fill all their remaining holes and quite frankly there are quite a few on the pitching side. Unless they’re willing to blow through the luxury tax, I just don’t see how they make Harper’s potential $40M AAV fit into their payroll.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:50 AM) Depends on money I’ve argued it before, but I think guys like Stanton are undervalued because of their contracts. There simply aren’t a lot of 6 WAR players in baseball so that type of production becomes a scarce resource even it doesn’t come with a ton of surplus value per se. Giants seemed to be offering a pretty serious package despite taking on most of Stanton’s contract. And it sounds like the Cardinals did as well. That kind of proves my point that stars like Stanton are worth more than their traditional surplus value. Unfortunately it sounds like the Yankees are going to get a steal here as the Marlins have no leverage.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:46 AM) The Marlins don't have the leverage now that Stanton has rejected STL and SF. Just a guess, but I'm thinking the Yanks will give up less than what SF offered. Man, Stanton really stuck it up Jeter's ass. Just saw a rumored package of Castro, Andujar, & Tate. If true, the Marlins are coming out as big losers and should have just waited.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:05 AM) https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/939477495606366210 Jon Heyman: "sources: Yankees and Marlins have a deal for Giancarlo Stanton" I really hope the Yankees at least gave up a lot of young talent.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 09:43 PM) Cough Cubs Cough Just like Otani!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 07:01 PM) There are cities where the number of police shootings drops dramatically due to a change in administration and a change in training and tactics. Dallas, Salt Lake. 34 states don't require any deescalation training and then places like Chicago make sure to stress "only if it is judged safe to deescalate" while offering that training. And again, that doesn't count "what about the 1/2 of them where the person didn't need to have a gun but did". Let me ask you a question. Do you think someone making advances on a cop with a knife deserves to be shot?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 06:44 PM) I would say - being a police officer is dangerous, but it is not so dangerous as to justify gunning down 1000 people per year. If we cannot face up to that fact, then we are being dishonest. You may not like to hear it, but that doesn't change the reality. We lose way more loggers per year than police officers. We lose more taxi drivers. If we are going to talk about how dangerous being a police officer is every time someone guns down a person, then we should talk about how dangerous it actually is. Furthermore, being a police officer is dangerous, but it is 10x less dangerous in the United Kingdom because the police in the United Kingdom don't have to worry that if they approach someone they will pull a gun. The best thing we could do other than reducing driving/making driving safer, to save officers lives, is have them deal with fewer armed people. But we've made it abundantly clear - having more people armed more often is more important to us, even sometimes over the objections of police. So there's another thing we should talk about - we have other priorities beyond the lives of police, including our precious guns. So let's also talk about what we respect more, the lives of police or our precious guns. Are you actually suggesting that a material amount of those shootings deaths were unnecessary? If so, on what grounds are you basing this on?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 06:13 PM) I see nothing wrong with hating that post. The statement "Being a cop is not as dangerous as we make it sound" is an ugly statement. It makes it sound like you are discrediting the deaths of cops. I know how that sounds to me. If we're going to talk about a cop panicking and shooting someone inappropriately, we should say that as part of it too. Facing reality that isn't pleasant to say is the only way to get to the real problems. Your confusing danger with deadly and ignoring the important fact that police officers are trained for dangerous types of situations which ultimately helps prevent fatalities. To even suggest being a police officer isn’t that dangerous is completely absurd & offensive, but I’m not surprised that you simply used the first article you found on google that had some stats and didn’t even think “does this make sense in terms of my argument”. There are no doubt bad cops and the systems in place do a horrible job of punishing those that deserve punishment, but there is absolutely no reason to discredit the dangers these guys face. Some guys should not be cops because they simply won’t respond correctly in intense situations and we have a find a better way to screen those guys out. Until then, focus on the issue at hand which is holding bad cops accountable for their illegal or unjust actions.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 06:01 PM) ^This one is worse. I got to be honest, I’m sick of people like you and Balta who literally try to s*** on the dangers of being a police officer. The vast majority of police offers are good people that put themselves in harm’s way to keep their communities safe. I find unappreciative social justice warriors like yourself, who constantly try to group all cops as being bad, to be absolutely appalling. Whoever called you a “holier than thou liberal” was dead f***ing right. Rip the bad cops all you like, but show some god damn respect for the good ones.

IF the Marlins are smart, they’ll keep him for a year and hope he gets sick of the losing and reconsiders teams like SFG & STL.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 05:23 PM) Just so someone points it out, police officer is the 15th deadliest occupation in the United States. Being a Taxi driver is more dangerous. And FWIW, I think removing any chance that the officer has to worry about a person having a gun is a great way to reduce the number of officers killed on duty. Let's get those kill machines off the streets too and that will save a ton more police lives. Final note: The person that cop murdered was a close friend of a colleague/co-author of mine. She's rather upset. God I hate this post.