Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:44 AM) Well you can go to a conspiracy theory. First installment season ticket deposits are due today. It all could be some news to make those on the fence pony up some cash. It may be coincidence, but there always does seem to be some sort of rumor right around when they are due. Are deposits typically during or the week or two after the Winter Meetings? If so, I’m not seeing the coincidence.

Realistically, could this lineup combine for 30 WAR if all went right? 1. Robert, RF 2. Moncada, 2B 3. Machado, SS 4. Abreu, 1B 5. Jimenez, LF 6. Delmonico, DH 7. Burger, 3B 8. Collins, C 9. Anderson, CF

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:46 PM) I shouldn't start a new thread, because people get upset when I do that, but I couldn't resist. The thread on our rotation looking strong makes me want to share what the talk shows were saying tonight as they discussed the Duffy trade rumors. KC Royals are probably going to start rebuilding and shopping Duffy in the words of the host, "because teams like the White Sox and Twins have passed them and will dominate the division the next five years." Hmmm ... the KC announcers think the Sox already are contenders whereas our fans think there's two additional seasons of tanking left in us. Just thought I'd pass on that in KC, perhaps cause of the head to head meetings in which the Sox looked good last year vs. KC, the people are thinking the Sox rebuild is over and the time to win is starting. That's food for thought for those who are looking forward to two more seasons of tank. Has the team arrived or not? KC people say the Sox have arrived no matter how badly many fans want more top five draft picks. No one here cares what KC people have to say about our rebuild.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:39 PM) At the deadline, it could be anybody. An injury here an injury there, an unexpected contending season...The Cubs gave up a pretty good one for a guy who fires shots at his female companion closer in 2016.They could have had him for a fraction of the price before the season started.. Manny Machado changes your team for the better instantly. If you were an Oriole fan, would you really be happy with the return you mentioned for Manny Machado? Even with the premiums paid for relievers at the deadline, the Chapman return was a huge outlier. Did you see the JDM return? That dude should have commanded much more, but the market didn’t bare it. I’m not going to deny that as an Orioles fan I’d expect a better headliner than Cease in return for Machado, but I really don’t think they’ll get a blue chipper for him at this point. They can definitely wait until the deadline and hope it pays off, but that also comes with the risk of injury and ending up with a second round pick. Plus he’d be delaying the sale of his other assets, which just seems like a bad idea. Hahn had time on his side with Quintana, Duquette doesn’t really have that luxury. It’s either now or the the trade deadline and nothing is promised next July.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:25 PM) Their best chance is with him on the team. It probably still isn't good enough but, if I were their GM, I am not taking back a half assed package back for him at this point. They need to admit that they are basically playing for 3rd place for the foreseeable future, but maybe if they kept him everything would go right and some how they make a run this year. If not, keep him until the deadline. A contender adding him then changes things, and even if it is for a couple of months, would be worth a top prospect if it got you where everyone wants to go. Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true. Cease has TOR potential and Dunning & Fulmer are former 1st round picks with upside. Cease is probably in the 75 to 90 prospect range overall, Dunning in the 90 to 110 range, and Fulmer somewhere in the top 150. I’m not sure I’d pass on a Cease+Dunning offer if I was the Orioles and that was the best offer received right now. Trading Machado allows the rest of the dominoes to fall. The longer they wait, the less they’ll get for their other guys. I already asked this, but what team do you think will give up a top prospect for one year of Manny Machado?

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:08 PM) I thought more about this and I think I see what Hahn is trying to do now when he's talking about taking risk. It's probably Fulmer and Cease/Dunning thinking that they can recoup at least half that up to the equivalent amount of value at the trade deadline if they can't extend him. Meanwhile they get 6 months or so to try to get him to sign an extension. It's basically a free call option. And if they can't sign him before the trade deadline they now know they have to pursue a different path in the next offseason. As long as our best prospects aren't involved I don't see much problem with it if this is how he is looking at it. To be clear I don't think they will be able to extend him but you never know. Orioles have to get something for him since he will be gone either way. If they are that worried about us flipping him to the Yanks they should hold onto him until the trade deadline. That’s how I’m processing this all as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) They have some decent players. How does Avi, Fulmer, Cease make them playoff contenders in a couple of years? They are pretty much screwed right now. Their best chance at actually winning the next 5 years is keeping Machado this year, and hoping everything goes right. Once he is gone, so is all hope in Baltimore for a long while. Come on man, the Orioles aren’t making the playoffs this year with or without Machado. Their only choices are dealing him now for the best offer received or hope he can bring back more at the deadline. Either way, whatever they receive won’t put them back in the playoffs in a couple years. They f***ed themselves significantly by not selling a year or two ago.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:40 PM) Many seem to have not read the article as Nightengale said there's no chance the Sox would actually give Manny a huge contract Come on man, are you really taking that as gospel? The Sox would NEVER leak that to Bob f***ing Nightengale if true. And no other team would have a clue on how much the Sox would really be willing to spend on Machado.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) Because as the post right before yours explained: try and buy him for a dollar and sell him for two. Hahn is simply kicking the tires here. He'd be stupid/lazy and bad at his job if he didn't at least look into it. As for the TV analogy: I'd flip the TV for $600 tmr and double my money. That's what Hahn is trying to see if he can accomplish. I think poker is a better analogy. We’re the big stack at the table and the blinds are still low. We can play some hands we have no business playing and maybe get lucky and win a big pot. The fact we are deep in prospect currency allows us to throw a moderate offer the Orioles’ way and keep ourselves in the conversation. The odds may be low, but if no one comes in with a big offer then maybe our token package wins it. There’s most definitely a price that makes sense for us to acquire him now as long as the Sox are willing to commit $300M+ towards next offseason. If they aren’t willing to commit that much money then I’d say this is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen. I don’t really buy that part of Nightengale’s article though.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:26 PM) It makes sense if the Yankees went to Hahn and said "We want Machado but Orioles wont deal with us. Well give you A,B,C for him" and Hahn is now trying to get Machado cheaper than A,B,C. Hahn’s ability to do deals with other teams would be greatly tarnished if he did something like that. No way he’d ever do something so shady.

QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:16 PM) New Nightengale article says the Sox do NOT have nearly a strong of an offer that has been rumored. He says their offer does not include any top prospects and is based on the value that they would have him for one year. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...rade/953798001/ But it also says it’s the strongest offer at the moment. Maybe Machado on a one year deal isn’t as valuable as we all think.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) Of course. The best way to get Machado is to a) amass the most talent you can between now and then (instead of depleting it) and b) (dare I suggest) OFFER Him more money than the other suitors. I don’t think half this board gets this. What happens when three or four teams all have this “outbid everyone” strategy? I can promise you multiple teams will eventually end up offering the same general number. Machado’s decision will most definitely come down to non-financial considerations.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:08 PM) I mean, we have absolutely zero idea what has been discussed, if the Sox are being used to drive up bargaining, which players were offered, how serious any of this is. Losing faith in the front office due to winter meeting speculation is laughable They don’t call him Jack “HoT TaKe” Parkman for nothing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:04 PM) I haven't seen anyone say this yet so I will - if RH does trade for Machado and the player leaves as a free agent, that would count in my eyes as his 6th "fireable offense". That's how big of a mistake that would be. What are the other five? James Shields is obviously one of them. What else are you including?

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:57 PM) One can only hope that Angelos and JR are good chums and Angelos saves JR from his own inept FO. Hearing what I have today, I have lost an incredible amount of faith in the FO to see the rebuild through and do it right. They are trying a shortcut. If they don't think they can compete with other markets for Machado's services on the open market, then they should cross him out as an option and move the f*** on to other options, because bringing him here, I'm 99% sure will change nothing. Lol...you don’t even know what we’re offering. And you’re acting like 6-7 WAR players grow on trees. We miss out on Machado our chances to add a legit superstar are greatly reduced. There’s a reason the front office is being proactive here and it’s not because they’re trying a shortcut.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:55 PM) Cardinals and Red Sox Machado hates Boston and would never sign with them. And what would they give up anyways?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) How does it make any sense that the two best offers are Cards and Sox? Those clubs couldn't be further apart in their windows. Who is going to trade for him with one year of control left? You’re pretty much looking at contenders with 3B/SS needs that can actually afford to offer him a $300M+ contract in the offseason. Add in the “won’t do business with the Yankees rule” and that right there doesn’t leave a ton of teams. Seriously, what teams make sense and actually have the assets to acquire him?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:49 PM) This will probably sounds nuts to people but I'm not including Kopech in a deal for Machado even if he signed an extension. All the sudden you're losing a lot of your payroll flexibility and you're losing your potential ace. We have some pitching depth in this organization but we don't have Kopech depth. You weaken your future rotation a great deal and you lose a lot of this payroll flexibility you've gained. I'm really not a fan of doing that even for a guy like Manny. Agreed.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:41 PM) That would never happen as teams would not trade big names to us anymore. That's more of a move at the deadline if everything just blows up on us. Oh I know, I said as much in this very thread, but the whole flipping to the Yankees rumor was definitely a right now type thing and not a deadline move. That’s why the Sox have come out multiple times and said they have every intention of keeping him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:50 PM) Who the f*** is Dan Clark and what the f*** does he know? But seriously, this Machado is both exciting & terrifying. I just wish a White Sox mouthpiece like Merkin would pop in with a “Kopech & Giolito not included in any offer”. f***...f***...f***... QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:30 PM) Well thank god for that. @DanClarkSports RHP Michael Kopech - the White Sox's top pitching prospect - is NOT included in Machado trade talks. Untouchable. #Orioles #HotStoveRHP Michael Kopech - the White Sox's top pitching prospect - is NOT included in Machado trade talks. Untouchable. #Orioles #HotStove https://twitter.com/DanClarkSports/status/941404621314056192 God I love Dan Clark!

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:23 PM) CF Anderson 2B Moncada SS Machado 1B Abreu RF Jimenez DH Garcia LF Delmonico C Castillo 3B Sanchez Oh my Flip flop Sanchez & Anderson and that could be an isanely good lineup despite not having a true leadoff bitter.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) yuck. Can't imagine how much i would hate if I heard Michael Reinsdorf was influencing a package back. I took it as a positive given how crazy Peter Angelos is, but obviously I don’t know a lot about his son. I just feel like more often than not, the second generation of family ownership is a little more grounded (Wirtz’s, Steinbrenner’s, etc). I feel like us Bulls fans got stuck with the rare bad one in Michael Reinsdorf and his BFF Gar Foreman.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) Where did you see that? MLB Network 10 minutes ago.

Nightengale just brought up the rumor that the Sox might flip Machado to the Yankees. Definitely seems like a competitor purposely leaked that in hopes of giving the Orioles cold feet on dealing with us. He also specifically mentioned “the Sox claim their offer isn’t as strong as they’re making it out to be”.