Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:18 PM) There isn't going to be be a better market for Quintana. You can't get better than being literally the only TOR pitcher available. The market may be scarce again someday, but Quintana will have less control then, and he can't realistically pitch better than he has been pitching. It's certainly possible for someone to pay more later, but it's not likely. That doesn't mean take a BS offer, but there is definitely real motivation to get the deal done this offseason if at all possible. 100% agree with this.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 08:57 PM) 8 PM Pacific time is some bulls*** Bad time but should be worth it.

The Switch event tonight could be epic if some of the rumors are true.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 07:06 PM) It'd actually a decent comparison if you make that comparison at the same age and weight. Josh Bell is actually worse in the outfield and cannot play first base. Neither one are major league level players. Bell is Tank II. No thanks. Lol...sure, they are the same if you completely ignore their offensive abilities.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 04:14 PM) This is because he really doesn't need to trade him. He will still be under a team friendly contract when this team is good again, if the plan works. None of these primary players are more than 2 years away. RH/KW traded away the most valuable (and troublesome) pieces to rebuild quickly with near MLB talent. Gotta disagree here. Wasting 2 or 3 years of Quintana's value in hopes he can anchor a competitive team for one or two years (best case scenario) makes no sense IMO. His production over the next two years is 100% useless to us, but it's obviously very valuable to other clubs planning to compete. There is a huge opportunity cost to holding him that you're not acknowledging. We can trade him for a group of prospects that fit much better into our competitive window. That makes much more sense than trying to get one or two years out of Quintana while the team is actually good and then losing him for nothing. Also, we only have a handful of bats in the system that we can project as above average major league regulars. It's going to be difficult to find the talent needed to fill those holes without dealing Quintana. He's the one guy we have left that can potentially bring in an elite positional prospect in addition to a couple quality secondary pieces. We still have a long ways to go in our rebuild before we should feel even the least bit optimistic that we can be competive by 2019 or 2020. I strong Quintana return with multiple near major league pieces would go a long way towards that.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 01:05 PM) If I could put Hahn's hat on I would take the following options, if they would be offered for Q, in this order: 1. Astros: Bregman , (and I might include another player from the Sox to get Breg, like Frazier) 2. Yankees : Frazier, Torres (don't need Diaz) (I would also trade Frazier to them if they wanted him for another prospect) 3. Pirates: Meadows, Keller (I'd throw in Avi Garcia, lol,) Please no Josh "Tank II" Bell. 4. If none of the above (which increasingly apapears to be the case) wait to trade Quintana for another day. In the meantime, I would try to reacquire Tray Thompson from the Dodgers. Edited to add: Frazier and/or Melky might be useful for the Yankees or one of the other teams, a and might possibly put one of these deals over the top. Did you just compare Josh Bell to Dayan Viciedo? Holy f*** is that a terrible comparison.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 07:03 AM) I can respect that, the third package to me is the right amount of both upside and depth. I'll be honest, I don't know much about Hearn, but to me Newman is a far better prospect than Hayes and Hearn doesn't change the value equation enough to make up for that difference. Having said that, I'd still do that third deal. Hell, I'd do Meadows/Keller/Craig, and Hayes is a better prospect so no complaining there. I also don't think it's an unreasonable offer. Doesn't come close to gutting their system. And gives them an opportunity to go for it this year and potentially pivot at the deadline and deal McCutchen and/or Cole. They may miss Meadows if that happens, but I'm sure they can land a near major league ready OF prospect by cashing in those chips (assuming some rebound by McCutchen).

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 06:32 AM) When all the smokes clears and if you were Rick Hahn and these were the packages presented to you what would you choose and why. Meadows/Glasnow/lotto ticket Meadows/Keller/Newman Meadows/Keller/Hayes/Hearn Easily Meadows/Keller/Newman IMO. I think that last package is far away the weakest.

I'll give Greg credit, dude trolls 24/7 year after year. He may very well be the GOAT troll.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 11:23 PM) So be it, but the love of Glasnow is not universal. And you do have to watch some of these prospects rankings...a lot of the services just take their information from other evaulators. Not saying it's the case with Glasnow. And I believe BA put Keller ahead of Glasnow anyway. I wouldn't mind a quantity trade for Q - 3 in the 40-70 range plus 3 more (the ascending Keller, Newman, Bell plus 3 more, e.g.)....I just don't see anyone that we can get who is really elite so I'll take some volume to minimize the risk. QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 11:29 PM) You dont have to be Professor Baseball to have major concerns about a pitcher who in five years of pro instruction has barely gained any control of his pitches. I've already said Glasnow has his warts, but saying his stuff isn't good (like Jerksticks did) is ridiculous.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:59 PM) Maybe he watches his starts too. Not just a few K highlights. You're right bro, I'm sure the scouts who have been raving about his stuff for years only watch the highlights. Same goes for the guys at Baseball America, mlbpipeline, etc. who follow prospects for a living and consider him a consensus top 15 prospect. Or the three GMs in a recent survey of 19 who voted him as the best pitching prospect in the game. But hey, you don't like the guy so whatever fits the narrative I guess.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:21 PM) Probably mentioned above, but Cameron in chat said today that Glasnow is insufficient as a Q centerpiece: stuff not that good and major control problems. I think his opinion on Glasnow's stuff would put him in the minority.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:28 PM) What about Frazier? I know there's only one more year on his contract but that Atlanta lineup, despite having Freeman, still feels a little light on power unless Swason cranks 20+ HR. Combine that with what seems like a glaring weakness at 3rd could there be mutual interest in packaging Frazier? Good clubhouse guy, solid defender, masher of baseballs...makes sense if you ask me. Atlanta trading for a rental doesn't make a lick of sense to me, but then again they traded for Jaime Garcia.

I would be very hesitant dealing with the Braves. First off, I don't get why they'd cash in prospects for a TOR starter right now unless they're trading guys they don't really believe in. The other problem is outside of Swanson & Albies, most of their attractive prospects are either pitchers (which we don't need) or positional guys years aways from contributing. Just doesn't make sense given our needs and timeline IMO.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) Take a look at the actual players instead of the prospect # in front of their name. Obviously both Bell and Newman have value and aren't bad by any means, but both deserve some scrutiny if we are trading a top SP for them. Do you really want the badly needed hitting prospects we get back for Q to possibly be a 2B and 1B that might not be able to hit 25 hr's between them? I'm all for the depth and we obviously need it, but no position value and no potential impact bat in return would worry me. It's not a deal anyone should cry over, but wanting a potential impact bat for Q shouldn't be unreasonable. And I don't believe the Pirates can offer that if Meadows isn't involved. There's nothing wrong with wanting a potential impact bat for Quintana. I want Meadows just as badly as everybody else and can acknowledge he's far and away the best prospect in Pittsburgh's system. He's no doubt the ideal headliner. But that doesn't diminish the fact that Glasnow, Bell, Keller, & Newman are excellent prospects and considered amongst the top 50 in the game by most publications. They each have their own flaws/weaknesses (like most prospects do), but let's not act like they're at the Basabe & Dunning level. Every single one of them would make a terrific secondary piece and an argument could be made for Glasnow and/or Bell being headliners depending on how positively you view them. Personally, I'd hold my ground a while longer for Meadows and eventually push for a depth trade if they don't give in. IMO, Glasnow, Bell, & Newman would be an absolute haul and one I would take in a heartbeat. I'm doubtful the Pirates would do that deal, but that would be my price without having a positional headliner like Meadows.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 06:23 PM) I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure most Sox fans are realistic about who is valuable in tiers. Guys like stephens and call exist in pretty much every organisations top thirty. They are back end of a trade filler or guys that can be dealt in smaller deals. There is a big value drop after meadows in the pirates system. Glasnow is not without big questions about his poor control. Bell is a terrible defensive player, even at first Newman has zero power, value tied to sticking at ss Keller pitched well against A ball competition. Forearm issues in the past. How many prospects in the game are worth a damn to you? 10? 20? Glasnow, Bell, & Newman are all legit top 50 prospects. If you're s***ting on all these guys, you are going to be incredibly dissapointed with our Quintana return.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:09 PM) Honestly, any deal with Meadows + either Keller/Newman makes me extremely happy. I literally don't even care what the others are. It could be Meadows/Keller + two members of the grounds crew. This I 100% agree with. Meadows, Newman/Keller, & Craig would be a great trade for us. If Meadows is included, you can't really expect more than that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) If that is really the case, they have already dug themselves a huge hole by not getting much in the way of position players at all. Isn't that what you've been telling us since the Winter Meetings? That we needed to get some position players for Quintana or we'd be screwed?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:51 PM) The way to "extend your window of contention" would be to have high-upside talent flowing through your system constantly. I do agree though that Maitan shouldn't be a centerpiece. Well obviously, but you need to build a contender in the first place and that's going to be a challenge if one of the centerpieces of your remaining blue chipper is 4+ years away from reaching the majors and another year or so from being productive most likely.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:32 PM) Maitan is one of the highest ceiling guys in all of baseball. If your goal is to really open a long window of contention, this is exactly the type of guy who you target. He has future superstar written all over him. When do you realistically expect him to be a productive member of our team? How many years of control will we have left with the rest of our core by that point? With a rebuild you want a core of players all hitting the majors in a short period of time. That's how you optimize your window of contention.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 12:54 PM) If we are talking about Brave packages I need Albies and Maitan to be the headliners in any deal. Maitin, even though extremely young may be the position player I want the most if we can't get a Meadows, Bell, Tucker, etc. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 12:56 PM) That is exactly what I feel too. Maitan is a good 4+ years away. What good does that do for our rebuild? Our headliners should be guys that will be in the majors by 2019 at the latest. Some of you guys are so obsessed with getting bats that you're not thinking straight right now.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 07:53 PM) Something would have to be done to rectify this from the Pirates side, probably remove Hayes or Diaz (or both) but once that's done this makes sense for all involved. I know I'm making a big fuss about not waiting to deal Quintana, but waiting to trade Robertson is even riskier. At least Quintana is good. Now the stakes with Robertson obviously are nowhere near as high as they are with Q, but using him as grease to get a bigger deal done makes sense. I would also do a similar deal with the Yankees for Rutherford. What risk is there waiting to deal Robertson? The rumor from raBBit was that he doesn't have much of a market right now. Might as well give him a chance to rebuild his value. And relievers are the ideal chips to move at the deadline.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) I am trying to figure out why this guy is rated so highly with those kind of prospect grades. I mean we are talking about a guy who is going to generate an older Juan Pierre's numbers offensively as the best position player in a deal, and that excites people? What am I missing here? Probably the huge difference in walk rates.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 11:27 PM) Absolutely. And i understand the point that there will be pitchers available next offseason but i don't agree that diminishes his value. I don't think you can cavalierly say "it's just money" when it's $100M+. Just look at the new tax. Just look at the 20 or so teams who can't pay that anyway. We'll be seeing $35-$40M AAVs in the next few years which makes him more valuable. Sox are licking their chops if they have to wait. You keep saying this, but how are any of the above factors different than today? All else held constant, the more SP options available the less valuable Quintana becomes. He is literally the only TOR starter available right now. Think about that for a minute. Teams desperate for a TOR starter right now literally have no alternatives. Why do we think our price will suddenly be met come July when less teams will be in contention, other options will be available, and certain trade chips will be now be off limits? There is a reason the Sox decided not to sell at the deadline last year. You're typicallly better off going with the largest possible market vs. gambling for one desperate buyer, at least with cost-controlled assets.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 11:19 PM) The same reason Cubs and Indians paid up. Pressure on GMs. Pressure on GMs who may not be around when some prospect hits the bigs in a year or two. They paid up for elite relievers in a huge seller's market. The market dynamics could be totally different this coming July, especially for starting pitchers. I get there is the chance one GM does something crazy out of desperation, but the odds of that are low and not worth the risk of injury or underperformance reducing Quintana's value IMO. Also, GMs at the deadline typically value immediate production vs. long term production, especially if they have multiple holes to fill. Look at what the Dodgers did with Reddick & Hill. They went the rental route instead cashing in any of their elite prospects for a cost-controlled difference maker. I no doubt agree there is typically a premium paid at the deadline, but there is also a limit on how much teams will pay in an individual trade, which is one of the main reasons teams shop in the short-term bin. Every once in a while you may see a Cole Hamels trade, but everything must line up right in terms of supply, demand, prospect capital, & appetite in order for that to happen. Again, I just don't see the odds of getting a far more desirable return six to 12 months from now being that great.