Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 01:13 PM) I don't view Rutherford as a potential superstar, but I agree with basically everything else here. Well done. And that's totally fair. I have my own concerns with Rutherford, but it seems like the Sox believe he can be that kind of player. And assuming that's the case, I can understand why they made this deal. But to your point Shack, there's definitely a chance they left some value on the table. It does seem like some posters are really sleeping on the value Kahnle could have a year from.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:01 PM) I suppose any return can be debated but one constant theme I've noticed is any critic of the deals Hahn has made to this point say "one player short" or "a tick light on the back end." Sale trade: "should've included Devers instead of Basabe & Diaz" Eaton trade: "great but should've pried Robles instead of Giolito" Quintana trade: "back end should've been better with Candelario" Fraz/DRob/Kahnle trade: "Clarkin should've been 3rd piece w Andujar or Florial" Given that we have basically been shopping most of these guys for over a year, Rick and team have a pretty good idea of the true market and what the best offers available. Given that Rick has shown patience, even with some impatience on this board, it's fairly clear that he didn't just jump on any offer to dump these guys. Given that there are still about 2 weeks left until the deadline, Rick's hand wasn't forced and ultimately these met the threshold of the type of return they could expect. I'm extremely happy with these trades both individually and overall. I believe that the Sox did ample due diligence and extracted the appropriate returns that are realistic. I want the Sox to seek potential superstars and the more high end chips the more likely we hit on a few. Our system has plenty of B/C prospects that will likely be okay or surprise. Give me the blue chippers all day every day and I'll sacrifice the back end of deals. I'm not sure anyone really complained about the Eaton trade, but otherwise the "one player short" comments are frequent. And quite frankly, I think they reflect exactly what Hahn is trying to accomplish with these trades and that's grabbing the best potential impact talents possible. The hardest thing to find is stars and with greater restrictions on the draft & international free agency it's got even harder for rebuilding clubs. Basically, you have to get super lucky or spend big in free agency if you don't have great draft position or valuable that can be cashed in to kick off a rebuild. We had three super valuable trade chips coming into this rebuild. For those three assets, we landed two blue chip positional prospects & five quality pitching prospects along with some filler (sorry Basabe). We were also able to use some of our payroll savings to add another potential positional star in Robert. That's a great start, especially on the pitching side, but obviously we needed more star upside on the positional side. IMO, even though I feel the trade is a player light when viewed in isolation, getting another potential blue chipper in Rutherford is HUGE for the overall process. We all have to remember this is a numbers game. As much as I wish we could, we simply can't assume all these guys work out. Let's say we have four potential positional stars in Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, & Rutherford. If two of those guys become full-fledged superstars, one becomes an above-average everyday player, and the fourth guy completely flops, that's a huge win for us. We have enough organizational depth and payroll capacity to fill in holes with good/solid players. The important thing is finding two or three superstars for the lineup and another two or three in the rotation. Getting Rutherford puts us in a much better spot to achieve that goal. And while a much lesser consideration, losing Robertson & Kahnle puts us in a better position to land a future superstar in the 2018 draft. So again, while I think this trade is a little light on its own merits, I think it was worth making when considering the whole process. I just think it's hard to pass on a potential superstar today, because you might get a better prospect with a higher ceiling down the road. I just don't think the reward is worth the risk, especially if you believe that Rutherford can be a blue chipper by next season.

Unless someone gives up nice value for Abreu (which would be unlikely in this market), I have no problem keeping him and possibly even extending him. Not sure what the financials would look like, but I kind of like the idea of him as our DH and anchoring our lineup for the next four years or so with all the youngsters expected to come up.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 01:45 AM) 1. Yoan Moncada 2. Eloy Jimenez 3. Michael Kopech 4. Luis Robert 5. Blake Rutherford 6. Zack Collins 7. Alec Hansen 8. Reynaldo Lopez 9. Dane Dunning 10. Jake Burger 11. Lucas Giolito 12. Dylan Cease 13. Jordan Guerrero 14. Micker Adolfo 15. Carson Fulmer 16. Gavin Sheets 17. Ian Clarkin 18. Evan Skoug 19. Luis Gonzalez 20. Danny Mendick No Spencer Adams love?

01. Moncada, 2B 02. Jimenez, OF 03. Kopech, SP 04. Robert, OF 05. Lopez, SP 06. Rutherford, OF 07. Giolito, SP 08. Hansen, SP 09. Collins, C 10. Dunning, SP 11. Cease, SP 12. Burger, 3B 13. Adolfo, OF 14. Adams, SP 15. Fulmer, SP 16. Stephens, SP 17. Burdi, SP 18. Delmonico, OF/3B 19. Guerrero, SP 20. Fisher, OF 21. Sheets, 1B 22. Basabe, OF 23. Flores, SP 24. Clarkin, SP 25. Call, OF 26. Curbelo, SS 27. Zavala, C 28. Skoug, C/1B 29. Nunez, SS/3B 30. Yrizarri, SS

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:52 AM) In two years, the Sox have about 8 million dollars committed to the payroll. IF Avi continues to produce these sort of numbers, given the amount of time they have invested in him, his clubhouse attitude, etc...I see no problem with an extension. But at what price? IMO, you'd have to get a nice discount to even consider it. No reason to pay him close to market when we can always sign a free agent down the road if we can't fill the spot internally in a few years. Honestly, I just don't feel comfortable of committing to Avi unless it's very favorable circumstances. He just seems like a guy who could gain some weight as he ages and all of sudden his game falls apart.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) Starting to think that unless Avi + can bring back a top 100 prospect then go ahead and wait until the off season to re-evaluate. If Avi continues to hit his stock will be up this winter and Hahn can dangle him at the winter meeting to see what kind of offers he gets. Or,Moncada/Abreu/Avi could give us a glimpse of what the future could be like and may want to keep Avi around. Ha, never thought I'd say that. Still skeptical of Avi so I'm hoping the Cards get desperate and make Hahn an offer he can't refuse. The Marlins could have a couple elite OFs on the market this winter plus there are a couple good free agents. Might not be the best time to dangle Avi.

Yeah, right now our projected up-the-middle is: 2B: Moncada SS: Anderson CF: Robert C: Collins That's a pretty good starting point. And most likely, we'll have a top 3 to 5 pick in the next two drafts to add another up the middle player or two. While the names can change between now and the draft, a guy like Brice Turang would be a huge get and provide us with an incredibly high end SS prospect.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:14 AM) Maybe an arm from the Red Sox system would be nice. Honestly, I'll take anything with upside, but the two areas I'd try avoiding are A ball OFs and starters in AA/AAA. We have huge logjams in those areas, but an A ball arm would make plenty of sense for us.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:38 AM) Suck for Singer?? Tank for Turang!

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:37 AM) Anyone know if there's smoke to Avi being available, or is Nightengale just speculating? I guess to an extent our OF prospects are pretty loaded now, so would make sense. Though I'll be really sad if Avi is gone as well haha. If you can get value for him, then why not? Helps the tanking effort and creates room for one of Leury, Engel, Willy, & Delmonico to get everyday playing time. Again, got to get value though.

He's definitely getting moved, but it's going to be a for low level talent. Wouldn't mind adding another middle infielder for Kannapolis or Winston Salem.

The OF talent in A Ball is incredible right now. We've got Jimenez, Basabe, Fisher, & Booker at High A and Rutherford, Adolfo, Gonzalez, & Schnursbusch at Low A. And that doesn't include Call & Robert who should theoretically be at ones of those levels right now.

Does anyone know where the Tito Polo rumor came from? Not that I'm expecting much at this point, but Inreally hope he's not the 3rd piece.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:42 PM) I would have been the opposite, very willing to deal Avi, and reluctant to deal Kahnle except for a very high return. Let's see how it works out. I think two factors drove this trade. First, the Sox love Rutherford. Wouldn't be shocked if they thought he was a top 20 caliber prospect. Second, seeing a reliever like Nate Jones possibly lose the majority of his value in an instance probably convinced them to cash in on Kahnle now. While I do think the trade feels light without a quality 3rd piece, I understand the logic of potentially losing out on some upside down the road for a blue chipper right now.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:41 PM) That's obviously a valid opinion. Just given the context of what people were talking about there, I think everyone thought you meant Avi was going to get traded in the next 2 weeks. Lol...I can see why people inferred it that way, but that's not what I meant. Just meant we still have a couple decent trade chips left in Avi, Jones if he comes back healthy, & maybe even Rodon in a few years. Avi was simply the focus of my post given Rutherford being the big piece in this trade.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:36 PM) Interesting. Think he's too old and too close to FA? Just cash in now like Kahnle? I wouldn't be opposed. I just meant he's a trade asset we still have. Whether that is in the next two weeks or sometime next year, I don't expect Avi to be around in 2019. And with interesting but fringe OF options like Luery, Engel, Willy, & Delmonico ready for auditions, an argument can be made that it will be sooner rather than later.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:34 PM) Nah, but if Cards want to give Kelly and flaherty for Avi and Swarzak, that be cool QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:34 PM) But all three of our top 50 OF prospects are at least two years away. I say sign Avi to a 2 year deal and use him as trade bait in a year or two if he is still doing well I don't necessarily mean now, but no way the Sox sign Avi to a long-term deal at this point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:30 PM) After the trade Swarzak, that will just about do it for potentially interesting trades for a while. Next up, 2018 draft. We just acquired another top 50 OF prospect, I think this signals Avi is as good as gone.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:14 PM) If WSD is to be trusted on this one then we need to see another good + guy back. I agree and Tito Polo ain't it.

QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:04 PM) Abreu would get me as excited as Florial or Andujar, I'd rather have one of those positional guys, but Abreu as the mystery man would make me very ok with the trade. He's also part of the 40 man roster crunch next year and makes a ton of sense for the Yankees to move given where he's at in his career.

I assume the Yankees' 40 man roster is filled correct? They'd have to clear three spots just to execute this trade and Rutherford doesn't help. I'm still holding out hope for Andujar.

Damn, glad to see Inwas wrong and Rutherford is in the deal. I just hope Clarkin isn't the second biggest piece coming our way. Can't imagine Dave would react the way he did if he was. Also, how crazy is it that Basabe was our #1 OF prospect two months ago and now we have three guys in the top 50. Hell, Basabe probably would be ranked #6 now if I had to guess.

QUOTE (TRU @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:05 PM) For Frazier and Robertson, sure If Kahnle is involved as well im not as excited about a depth package I'm talking about 4 or 5 guys like that. Fowler was a top 100 prospect before his injury. Mateo was a type 50 guy a year ago. Andujar & Abreu are both in the 100 to 150 range. That's a ton of talent IMO and something the Yankees can do because of their depth.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:57 PM) 1 element pushing #Yankees toward trades also is so many 40-man roster questions in offseason, can't keep them all, need to use few in deals https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/887491235706961920 Which is why I don't buy Rutherford being in this one. I'm expecting more of a depth package involving 40 man guys like Mateo, Andujar, Abreu, hell maybe even Fowler.