Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 09:05 AM) Yes, we improved marginally on our record this year. It took spending >$50 million/season in new money and trading for a pitcher 1 year away from free agency and having a team that is unbelievably, remarkably healthy to upgrade by ~4 games. There's a good chance that'll be just enough to land us a first round pick in 2016 that isn't protected. This isn't complimentary. I didn't wade into this thread last night, y'all know how I feel about these guys, but man this attitude of "we're going the right direction look at our record!" really frustrates me. Just to tread water from this season we'll have to spend like $25 million in new money and attendance is going to go the opposite direction next year again. The guys we acquired this offseason have combined 1.8 total WAR. We probably would have treaded water without their additions, the problem is we should have taken a big leap forward and we didn't because the majority of them have under-performed. LaRoche: -0.9 Bonifacio: -0.6 Duke: -0.4 Beckham: -0.3 Cabrera: -0.1 Robertson: 1.8 Shark: 2.3 So to accumulate this 1.8 WAR, we spent nearly $55M, traded decent four prospects, & gave up two draft picks. There's no doubt in my mind if these guys lived up to expectations or those resources were better allocated (and obviously I have the benefit of hindsight right now), we could actually be a wild card team right now. Ultimately, I don't think the strategy of going for it was the problem (the AL is wide open), it was the execution of the plan that has us where we currently are.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 01:46 AM) My issue is this team can't develop hitters to save their lives. I gotta disagree here. I think the team can't develop the pure athlete types who completely lack plate discipline. The guys who naturally have some understanding of the strike zone have done much better, we just haven't drafted or signed a lot of these guys in the past. However, we're finally starting to see a few of the legitimate "baseball" types hit the majors and have some success. Sanchez was horrible for a while, but he has a wRC+ of 113 in the 2nd half of the season. Micah came up earlier and was more than competent with the bat (defense a different story). Saladino has struggled, but I've seen enough to believe he can be close to a league average bat once he makes some adjustments. Thompson has looked great in a very small sample. Even guys like Phegley & Semien have done pretty well with the bats considering they're effectively rookies. One positive we can take away is our new director of amateur scouting understands the importance of plate discipline and being able to consistently make contact. The organization has shown an inability to develop toolsy players, so it needs to stop bringing as many of those types in (at least until Buddy Bell is gone) and focus on acquiring pure/natural hitters. Sounds like that's exactly what Hostetler plans on doing and I couldn't be more excited. Won't solve all our problems (again Buddy Bell), but at least it's a start. Combine that with the rejuvenation of our Latin America operations and we should start seeing some progress.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 10:22 PM) I've never been a fan of a complete rebuild all through the system. Sure I want some things blown up like the coaching staff, but we have enough of a core especially pitching to keep going. It's time for the front office to start hitting on some hitters through the draft, free agency and trades. I agree, I'm more than ready for changes, but rebuilding isn't one of them. I think it's time to officially cut ties with KW and allow Hahn to have a chance to realize his vision while also making him accountable for all personel decisions. I'd also like to let go of Robin and actually hire an experienced manager. Robin seems like a good guy, but he's a terrible in-game manager IMO and an easy spot to upgrade. And without question, Buddy Bell needs to go. I get player development is a difficult job and heavily reliant on the players brought into the organization, but he has so few success stories on the position player side that it's way beyond time to move on. Make these three changes and I feel much more confident about the leadership of the organization going forward. And with one voice and stronger leadership throughout, I feel more confident in our ability to acquire, develop, & coach up position player talent. I'd at least like to give Hahn and his team a year or two to improve this offense before I even think about ripping apart a pitching staff that has a chance to be very special in the near future.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) We've sucked for a number of years. Where are our Bryant and Schwarber? I'll wait. Also, what examples do you have of the bold? The teams that are doing full organizational rebuilds are in significantly better shape than the White Sox or the Padres. Welcome to the new MLB. Lol...we've had three top 10 draft picks since 1990. Rarely have we sucked outside of the past two seasons. And as Abreu mentioned, we got Rodon & Fulmer as a result. And without question, I'll take Rodon over Schwarber as this point in time. As for your rebuilding comment, I just pointed out the numerous reasons the Cubs are a likely playoff team that have nothing to do with rebuilding. The Astros may be an example, but let's not act like this isn't their first year of success. They aren't the 1990's Braves just yet. Who else do you got? The Pirates? Not sure how old you are, but they were terrible for like forever. Same goes for the Royals. There are lots of examples of rebuilding gone wrong, much more than the successes.

I have no idea why you'd do a rebuild when you have a potentially elite rotation locked up cheaply for the next four years. It honestly makes no sense to me. I do find it humerous that many on here cite the Cubs' rebuild as proof that it's the correct strategy. However, people fail to acknowledge that only two of their important major league players are a direct result of sucking for multiple years (Bryant & Schwarber). Rizzo was stolen in a prospect for prospect trade. Russell was given up in one of the most mind-boggling trades in recent memory (for a guy the Cubs wanted to sign to a long-term extension). Soler was an amateur international free agent signing. Arrieta was the result of an incredible trade deadline deal. Lester & Hammel were free agent signings. Hell, Fowler, Coghlin, & Montero, three of their top 5 position players based on fWAR, were savvy pickups. Point I'm trying to make is the lengthy rebuild route isn't the primary reason for their success. Shrewd trades and signings have provided them much more value this season. Given the talent we already have in place, there is absolutely no reason to blow things up and start from scratch. More often than not, rebuilding doesn't work out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 05:10 PM) To the bolded I emphatically say no. I personally want to see Saladino there for 2016, but that's because my perspective on the franchise is that we have a roster that is far from competitive in this league & I want to act like it and grow for the future. I'll be honest, I don't think we're that far away from being serious contenders. Our pitching staff is legit and once Fulmer or Montas replaces Danks it could be special. The offense is an obvious issue, but can be fixed if addressed properly. IMO, that means signing one of the star OFs in free agency, trading for a long-term solution at 3B, & adding a young catcher that can contribute by 2017. Accomplish all three of those goals, and we can be fringe contenders next year and serious contenders the following. The pitching staff really has a chance to be that good in the very near future.

For those unwilling to give up draft picks, how do you plan on improving this offense? Trading for established bats is going to cost a lot more than a 2nd round draft pick. And if you say internal options, then you might as well dump everyone and rebuild, because outside of Anderson & maybe Micah we don't have a lot of offensive prospects that are likely to help in the near future.

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 12:22 AM) Has anyone even bothered to check Arendo's stats away from Coors? Home: .300/338/534 103 wRC+ Away: .253/289/431 95 wRC+ Can't hit away from Coors, and at Coors can only manage a 103 wRC+ in his career. Kid is a great at third, no doubt (+60 DRS in three seasons), but we need more lumber. We already have the poor mans version of this in Saladino. No offense, but it's pretty lazy to use career stats for a third year player. Dude has a119 wRC+ on the road this year, despite an incredibly low BABIP. He's a much better hitter than you're giving him credit for. The only thing holding him back right now from being a special hitter is his BB rate. But given that's he 24, that could improve with time. Calling him Saladino is a ridiculous comparison.

In all honesty, Micah should be starting everyday when he gets called up. I'm starting to believe the Sox see Sanchez as their 2B of the future, which means Micah is trade bait. Even a month of major league success would go a long ways towards bringing his value back up. In a perfect world, we would have traded Alexei and shifted Sanchez over to SS for the rest of the year. We should be taking advantage of this lost season by giving playing to the kids that may have a future with us. This same logic applies to Thompson, whether or not he's likely to be a platoon player.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 06:56 PM) Arenado is the Rockies next Tulo so to speak and really don't see why they would trade him. I know CO is rebuilding and in need of pitching but they could easily do an extension with Arenado and keep him in CO for years beyond their speculated rebuild window. There's nothing wrong with hope but I just cannot see it happening and I'm rather outside the box in my thinking. Maybe I'm wrong. Call me close minded on the subject of Q but I find it difficult to believe the Sox would trade him. His numbers are very close to that of Lester for a whole lot less money. Q- http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts Lester- http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts I wonder what Q's numbers would look like if he faced the pitcher three times per game? All that said. I do realize the Sox will not fill all the positional holes via FA and no, I do not have an alternative solution to trading pitching for hitting. Arenado has Boras as his agent, which means an extension is incredibly unlikely. Given their current situation, the Rockies should definitely consider moving him. They'll obviously get a haul for him, although it's possible they could get more by waiting another year to see if he takes that next step. Regardless, I don't see why they would want Quintana as the central piece of their return. Maybe if he's spun off as part of a three way, but the Rockies will want a plethora of prospects, as hitting on a couple could move up their contention window.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 06:32 PM) As another poster mentioned, by trading Tulo, their window is now 2-3 years away from what they think they can contend because of the players they acquired for him. They have about 5-6 of those guys that are in that time frame. One of which is 3B Ryan McMahon who is demolishing high A ball at the age of 20. I'd send them Davidson, who will provide a stop gap until McMahon gets there, and others to get Arenado and LeMehieu Dude, Davidson has ZERO value. In fact, I'd say it's more than a 50% chance the Sox drop him from their 40 man roster this offseason.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 24, 2015 -> 11:27 AM) The story thing is a big deal to me, it's one of the things that sets Metal Gear games apart. I'm sure I'll have a blast with the game but this is sort of a bummer. I definitely agree. I've always loved the Metal Gear stories, not matter how ridiculous they could be. However, I really enjoyed the Ground Zeroes gameplay and it seems like the Phantom Pain is going to blow that out of the water. It's definitely going to be a different experience from the previous MGS games, but from a pure gameplay standpoint it should be without question the best.

IGN gave Metal Gear Solid 5 a perfect 10. A little disappointed to hear the story takes a back-seat in this one, but otherwise can't wait for next Tuesday. The gameplay sounds incredible.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 11:40 AM) Why RF? LF is a far bigger problem. Avi is young, cheap and could improve and is hitting about the same as Melky. Melky Cabrera and his .706 OPS, high contract, and 2 remaining years, is a much bigger problem. Melky has had a very nice 2nd half to the season. That's closer to the player I'm expecting going forward. Avi may be young and will likely get better with the bat, but his lack plate discipline limits his overall upside and when you combine that with his absolutely horrible defensive instincts, he'll never be an above-average player IMO. I haven't completely written him off yet, but I'm not passing on star players to give him another 600 ABs.

Agree the three needs that need to be addressed are RF, 3B, & C. If I'm Hahn, I'm all-in on adding a RF via free agency. Upton & Heyward would be my primary targets (I prefer Justin), but I'd be perfectly fine with Gordon as well if the years weren't ridiculous. Point is that it's incredibly rare in this day in age to have multiple stars who play the same position hit free agency at the same time, let alone two who are still in their late 20s. If we cut bait on Shark & Alexei, there is simply no reason we can't afford one of these guys. 3B is a bit trickier. I really think we need to go the trade route here, but I'm stuggling to come up with realistic names. I'd rather not give up a significant package for a guy with less than three years of team control. So if such a player is not available, I have no problem seeing if Zobrist would do a short-term deal and play 3B. He was born in Illinois and currently lives in Nashvile (an hour flight), so playing in Chicago could be attractive to him. However, I could see the Cubs being a player for him as well and that would f*** things up for us. As for catcher, I love the Plawecki idea. He's having a tough year, but has a ton of upside. If we can't find a way to match up with the Mets, we should still be targeting a young catcher (AA or above) that can contribute in the very near future.

The Matt Davidson s*** needs to stop. Dude has flopped hard two straight years in AAA, he's not a major leaguer. He'll, he'll be lucky to even be in the organization next year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 04:01 PM) Because I have absolutely no idea what it was last year so why should I assume it's a 1 time thing? I 100% agree with the solution though. Give him a shot in 2016 and see what he does. It's literally the only way we'll know. We've been through this before, Johnson was eventually shut down last year with an injury. And my guess he also had some mechanical issues contributing to the velocity loss. Regardless, before and after the 2014 season he's never had this type of problem. While there is a non-zero chance it happens again, there is no reason to believe it will until it actually does.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) I think you're undervaluing Arenado. IMO he's a top five player in baseball on a very good contract. Top 5 player? I mean, what in the world are you basing that on? If you think he can develop into a top 5 player, I could see an argument be made, but he's not there yet. And what do you mean he's on a very good contract. He's got four years left of team control and they're all arbitration years. Given that Boras is his agent, you're unlikely to get anything but year to year deals until he hits free agency and gets paid crazy money. I'm not sure how trading a top 20 starter in baseball with an incredibly team friendly contact (5/$40M) and half of our high end prospects makes sense for us given where our organization currently stands.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) And if he's throwing 93, does that mean you have 100% confidence he'll still have that fastball next year? Until he proves it, I wouldn't. Why would we expect his fastball to suddenly dissapear again? Clearly there was something wrong with him last year and right now everything suggests it was a one-time thing. However, he's still an unknown at the major league level and no doubt teams would be cautious about trading for him given his 2014 results. Our best bet is to give him a shot in 2016 and hope to turn him into a productive major league starting pitcher. He's definitely worth more to us than other clubs at the moment.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) This is all unlikely, but this would be interesting. 2015 offseason- Sox acquire Nolan Arenado for Jose Quintana, Frank Montas, Micah Johnson, and Spencer Adams 2016 infield- Arenado/Ramirez/Sanchez/Abreu 2017- Arenado/Anderson/Sanchez/Abreu That would be one of the league's best all-around infields, especially with Saladino coming off the bench. That would be an absolutely horrible trade for us to make. Trading Quintana plus three of our top five prospects for Arenado, as good as he is, would be a firable offense IMO.

IMO, we should not pick up Alexei's option for next year. Enter 2016 with Micah, Sanchez, & Saladino competing for the SS & 2B jobs, loser ends up as the reserve infielder. Trade Montas in a package for a long-term answer at 3B. Give Anderson a good 3 months in AAA, if he forces your hand in July then make the change. Otherwise, assume he's the starting SS in 2017 and one of the other young infielders either moves into a backup role is trade bait.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 09:42 AM) I agree that the Sox will need to make a move for a legit hitter, but right now, we have six weeks or so left in the season and our young players need to play every day. Saladino needs to play 3B everyday. Sanchez needs to play SS/2B every day. Micah Johnson needs to be promoted and play 2B/DH almost every day. Trayce Thompson needs to play one of the outfield positions or DH nearly every day. These are our four youngsters who could contribute next year in starting roles. If you don't let them play the next six weeks, you entertain the off season with more questions because you don't know how they will handle starting. Give them these six weeks, and you just answering the questions. I am fairly certain both Saladino and Thompson will be bench players, but you'll only know for sure if you let them play. Add Erik Johnson to the list. Assuming we lose Shark, we're most likely counting on Johnson to fill the #4 spot next year. It would be nice to give him an extended look in a lost season and be a bit more confident in counting on him for 2016.

Montas has had a lot of 5 inning starts, but the Sox have been very conservative with his pitch counts. If you go through his game logs, you'll see he's frequently being cut off around 90 pitches. With a little more development and another 15 to 20 pitches, going 6 innings a start shouldn't be a problem. All this reliever talk is way too premature, especially with the way he's been pitching since June. That being said, he's definitely the pitching prospect I'm trying to use in a package for a position player this offseason. With Erik Johnson ready for a shot again and Fulmer potentially a mid-season call-up next year, Montas provides more value to us as a trade chip.

This offense is so bad, we're going to need to add two serious bats if we want to have any chance next year.

Anderson is 3/4 and a triple short of the cycle. He should have one more chance at the cycle tonight. He's really putting up an incredible season all things considered, especially if you believe the scouting reports on his defense.